Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

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F1GTRUeno

6,335 posts

217 months

Friday 17th April 2015
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The engine in the F1 dominates everything. Doesn't give anything else a chance, especially not a turbo'd V8.

They'll never match it.

flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Sunday 19th April 2015
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hondafanatic said:
Soooooo... Evo P1 vs F1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bziUYnN8Mg - what do you reckon Flemke? I guess it doesn't bring anything new but I did like the tale of the tail lights. smile
I guess this would be a video version of the evo cover story of a few months back.

There were a number of factual errors, but Henry did a good job of capturing the essence of the F1.
The main point, I think, is that the F1 demands the total involvement of the driver, and repays every bit of that involvement. The same cannot be said of any "supercar" since, although the Carrera GT heads in that direction.

Ira

12 posts

117 months

Tuesday 21st April 2015
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flemke said:
I guess this would be a video version of the evo cover story of a few months back.

There were a number of factual errors, but Henry did a good job of capturing the essence of the F1.
The main point, I think, is that the F1 demands the total involvement of the driver, and repays every bit of that involvement. The same cannot be said of any "supercar" since, although the Carrera GT heads in that direction.
What factual errors did you find? Maximum speed record was not 243 mph, but 243,6137... mph?

andyps

7,817 posts

281 months

Tuesday 21st April 2015
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Ira said:
What factual errors did you find? Maximum speed record was not 243 mph, but 243,6137... mph?
If you go back a few pages they have already been covered here.

flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Tuesday 21st April 2015
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andyps said:
Ira said:
What factual errors did you find? Maximum speed record was not 243 mph, but 243,6137... mph?
If you go back a few pages they have already been covered here.
I think the errors cited a few pages back were the ones in the evo article on the cars' technology, where they got the purpose of the central driving position and the difference in width of the two cars wrong.

In the video, Henry says that the rev-limited Vmax is "231". Rather, that was the speed achieved by Jonathan Palmer at Nardo, which speed was reduced because of the tyre scrub inherent in driving in a big circle.
The actual rev-limited Vmax is 224. When Andy Wallace established the derestricted Vmax of 241, the engine was hovering at 7500 rpm. The factory rev-limit is 7000, which equates to 224. It's easy to do the maths, although I verified them empirically myself.

Henry mentioned that, in the early '90s, McLaren tried but failed to adapt "ceramic" brakes to the car, but had to settle for "steel" ones.
Acutally, McLaren tried but failed to adapt carbon matrix brakes, but had to settle for iron ones.

He also said something about how all the interiors were grey with a brightly coloured driver's seat. Although that was a common interior scheme, there was no standard scheme, and first owners specified a wide variety of interiors.

andyps

7,817 posts

281 months

Tuesday 21st April 2015
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flemke said:
I think the errors cited a few pages back were the ones in the evo article on the cars' technology, where they got the purpose of the central driving position and the difference in width of the two cars wrong.

In the video, Henry says that the rev-limited Vmax is "231". Rather, that was the speed achieved by Jonathan Palmer at Nardo, which speed was reduced because of the tyre scrub inherent in driving in a big circle.
The actual rev-limited Vmax is 224. When Andy Wallace established the derestricted Vmax of 241, the engine was hovering at 7500 rpm. The factory rev-limit is 7000, which equates to 224. It's easy to do the maths, although I verified them empirically myself.

Henry mentioned that, in the early '90s, McLaren tried but failed to adapt "ceramic" brakes to the car, but had to settle for "steel" ones.
Acutally, McLaren tried but failed to adapt carbon matrix brakes, but had to settle for iron ones.

He also said something about how all the interiors were grey with a brightly coloured driver's seat. Although that was a common interior scheme, there was no standard scheme, and first owners specified a wide variety of interiors.
Thanks for the clarification, I mis-read your post about the video. Must make time to watch it!

isaldiri

18,408 posts

167 months

Tuesday 21st April 2015
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flemke said:
The actual rev-limited Vmax is 224. When Andy Wallace established the derestricted Vmax of 241, the engine was hovering at 7500 rpm. The factory rev-limit is 7000, which equates to 224. It's easy to do the maths, although I verified them empirically myself.
.
Am sure I remember reading somewhere that the F1 limiter was 7500rpm and was raised to 8000 ish for Andy Wallace's record run? Or has my memory gone completely fuzzy...paperbag.

flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Wednesday 22nd April 2015
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isaldiri said:
flemke said:
The actual rev-limited Vmax is 224. When Andy Wallace established the derestricted Vmax of 241, the engine was hovering at 7500 rpm. The factory rev-limit is 7000, which equates to 224. It's easy to do the maths, although I verified them empirically myself.
.
Am sure I remember reading somewhere that the F1 limiter was 7500rpm and was raised to 8000 ish for Andy Wallace's record run? Or has my memory gone completely fuzzy...paperbag.
You are right. I recalled "7500" and a 500 rpm differential, but obviously I should have added, not subtracted. That's what I get for having not driven the car in quite a while. redface

isaldiri

18,408 posts

167 months

Wednesday 22nd April 2015
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flemke said:
You are right. I recalled "7500" and a 500 rpm differential, but obviously I should have added, not subtracted. That's what I get for having not driven the car in quite a while. redface
whew, glad I remembered right for once (or was not mistaken like forever..) heh.

Weather I'm told is pretty nice around the Eifel now....;)

flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Wednesday 22nd April 2015
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isaldiri said:
flemke said:
You are right. I recalled "7500" and a 500 rpm differential, but obviously I should have added, not subtracted. That's what I get for having not driven the car in quite a while. redface
whew, glad I remembered right for once (or was not mistaken like forever..) heh.

Weather I'm told is pretty nice around the Eifel now....;)
Yes, that is what my friends out there have been telling me, but alas there is no way I could spare the time right now.

Ira

12 posts

117 months

Saturday 2nd May 2015
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flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Saturday 2nd May 2015
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Ira said:
Thank you for that. I have a lot of time for Henry, who does good work.

A couple of small points:

They ultimately made 5 cars with high mirrors, not 2.

Also, the reason that Michelin made a new batch of tyres was not that "a bunch of owners clubbed together".
Rather, McLaren had to negotiate with Michelin for more than a year before the latter agreed to make a new batch. McLaren then went to existing owners and asked whether any of them would like to order for themselves tyres to be made in the batch, at a discounted price to what they would have to pay if they left it to McLaren to buy "X" number of tyres for factory inventory and then in future the owners would buy only as they needed them. It was a good method, which they may follow for a few other parts when original inventories are exhausted.

chris333

1,034 posts

238 months

Saturday 2nd May 2015
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flemke said:
Ira said:
Thank you for that. I have a lot of time for Henry, who does good work.

A couple of small points:

They ultimately made 5 cars with high mirrors, not 2.

Also, the reason that Michelin made a new batch of tyres was not that "a bunch of owners clubbed together".
Rather, McLaren had to negotiate with Michelin for more than a year before the latter agreed to make a new batch. McLaren then went to existing owners and asked whether any of them would like to order for themselves tyres to be made in the batch, at a discounted price to what they would have to pay if they left it to McLaren to buy "X" number of tyres for factory inventory and then in future the owners would buy only as they needed them. It was a good method, which they may follow for a few other parts when original inventories are exhausted.
Out of interest, what would be a ballpark figure for a set of tyres without the discount?

flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Saturday 2nd May 2015
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chris333 said:
flemke said:
Ira said:
Thank you for that. I have a lot of time for Henry, who does good work.

A couple of small points:

They ultimately made 5 cars with high mirrors, not 2.

Also, the reason that Michelin made a new batch of tyres was not that "a bunch of owners clubbed together".
Rather, McLaren had to negotiate with Michelin for more than a year before the latter agreed to make a new batch. McLaren then went to existing owners and asked whether any of them would like to order for themselves tyres to be made in the batch, at a discounted price to what they would have to pay if they left it to McLaren to buy "X" number of tyres for factory inventory and then in future the owners would buy only as they needed them. It was a good method, which they may follow for a few other parts when original inventories are exhausted.
Out of interest, what would be a ballpark figure for a set of tyres without the discount?
£5-6k.

chris333

1,034 posts

238 months

Saturday 2nd May 2015
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flemke said:
£5-6k.
Seem to remember reading that a set of Veyron tyres was about £20k..makes the F1 look like budget motoring smile

flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Sunday 3rd May 2015
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chris333 said:
flemke said:
£5-6k.
Seem to remember reading that a set of Veyron tyres was about £20k..makes the F1 look like budget motoring smile
Not only that - for every third set of tyres that you buy (from the factory - only supplier in the world), you are required to buy a new set of wheels.

fatboy69

9,371 posts

186 months

Sunday 3rd May 2015
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And the wheels cost how much?

Mezzanine

9,148 posts

218 months

Sunday 3rd May 2015
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I recall a set of four wheels being around £60kish

flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Sunday 3rd May 2015
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Mezzanine said:
I recall a set of four wheels being around £60kish
I thought it was more like £30k, but in any case they ain't cheap. At £30k, plus something like £23k for a set of tyres, to go through 3 sets of tyres and the obligatory set of wheels would set you back £99k.

hurstg01

2,909 posts

242 months

Sunday 3rd May 2015
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I had a good look around a 650 Le Mans a little while back, and it looked pretty damn good.

Would it be a tough choice between the 675LT and the 650 Le Man?