Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

[flemke]

hurstg01 said:

I had a good look around a 650 Le Mans a little while back, and it looked pretty damn good.

Would it be a tough choice between the 675LT and the 650 Le Man?

To me it was an easy decision.
I'm not crazy about the front of the 675, specifically the way that the pair of bent, angled carbon-fibre "fences" either side of the reg plate go into the splitter at the bottom. They're reminiscent of what Ferrari might do, which is not always a good thing.


Otherwise, however, I think the car looks pretty good, especially at the back:



Initially I liked the idea of the LM, but a couple of details ruin it for me. For one thing, they have the roof snorkel all wrong - it's been squared off:
(btw, in the flesh it looks worse than in the image)

which totally defeats the appeal of the subtle, elegant curves of the original:


which were evoked successfully in the P1:


Then we have the pseudo-OZ Crono wheels:


which, relative to the real thing:


are pretty awful.

When you do a limited edition for which people are paying I think it was IRO £40k premium for purely cosmetic changes, and those cosmetic changes are for the worse, it tends to defeat the point. The colour combo was good (although it might have been more interesting to incorporate 2 different shades of grey, as per the actual GTR), but those other details spoiled it for me.

Then we get to the driving and performance question. I have not driven a 675, but the weight difference alone will be enough to make it special. As I think I wrote above, the 675 goes most of the way to what I had hoped the P1 would be. It does not look as good as the P1 does, but I expect the driving experience to be superior and, for 1/3 the price, it is appealing.

[V8LM]

CK_N4S said:

flemke said:

Are Dymag still in busines?

Out of curiosity, do you know what one of your CF wheels weighs?

Actually, the low weight was my reason for buying them. Upon delivery I had them on my imprecise bath scale.

Front wheel is 8x18 and weighs 7 kg
Rear wheel is 10x18 and weighs 7,5 kg.

I dread the day I don't have these wheels any more. Dymag went bust shortly after my purchase, and to my knowledge, only the business of carbon race wheels for motorcycles has been carried on from the remnants.

CK

I was dealing with them went they went under. I tried to buy the casts and rights for the wheels I need but the receivers didn't know what they would be doing with the car wheel business. Nothing as it turned out.

[Sway]

Lost an hour this morning looking around a Rocket...

What a lovely, lovely thing it is. So many little details and nice touches all over. Just stunning.

Quick question, as I didn't notice this at the time, but what is the bracket for next to the driver's shoulder?

[flemke]

Sway said:

Lost an hour this morning looking around a Rocket...

What a lovely, lovely thing it is. So many little details and nice touches all over. Just stunning.

Quick question, as I didn't notice this at the time, but what is the bracket for next to the driver's shoulder?

Mine doesn't have a rear seat, so it wouldn't have one of those things, but IIRC there is a handle to help the rear seat passenger to steady themselves and to climb out.

Edited by flemke on Sunday 3rd May 17:05

[Mezzanine]

flemke said:

Mezzanine said:

I recall a set of four wheels being around £60kish

I thought it was more like £30k, but in any case they ain't cheap. At £30k, plus something like £23k for a set of tyres, to go through 3 sets of tyres and the obligatory set of wheels would set you back £99k.

Perhaps the £60k I recalled was for the tyres and wheels then.

Bargain

[Sway]

flemke said:

Sway said:

Lost an hour this morning looking around a Rocket...

What a lovely, lovely thing it is. So many little details and nice touches all over. Just stunning.

Quick question, as I didn't notice this at the time, but what is the bracket for next to the driver's shoulder?

Mine doesn't have a rear seat, so it wouldn't have one of those things, but IIRC there is a handle to help the rear seat passenger to steady themselves and to climb out.

Edited by flemke on Sunday 3rd May 17:05

Spotted those, they're vertical black grips (one is just showing at the edge of the frame). I meant the triangular plates mounted to the top inner chassis rail just as it's joined by the triangulation rails. Possibly not a bracket, maybe reinforcement for that area?

Is the rear of yours a plain luggage box? I knew a few had bag space instead of the rear seat, was that a original option or post build change?

[flemke]

Sway said:

flemke said:

Sway said:

Lost an hour this morning looking around a Rocket...

What a lovely, lovely thing it is. So many little details and nice touches all over. Just stunning.

Quick question, as I didn't notice this at the time, but what is the bracket for next to the driver's shoulder?

Mine doesn't have a rear seat, so it wouldn't have one of those things, but IIRC there is a handle to help the rear seat passenger to steady themselves and to climb out.

Edited by flemke on Sunday 3rd May 17:05

Spotted those, they're vertical black grips (one is just showing at the edge of the frame). I meant the triangular plates mounted to the top inner chassis rail just as it's joined by the triangulation rails. Possibly not a bracket, maybe reinforcement for that area?

Is the rear of yours a plain luggage box? I knew a few had bag space instead of the rear seat, was that a original option or post build change?

Oh, that little gusset-type thing. I'm not sure, and my car is not to hand so I could not check to see if mine has one.

I don't know about any other cars but, when I had mine made, I proposed that we take the fuel tank out of its normal position (actually, positions, as there are two of them) tucked rather awkwardly under the rear bodywork and move it to behind the driver's seat. This would have the three advantages of a better F-R weight distribution, lowering the CoG, and enabling a larger fuel tank. At the time (about 2006), LCC had not done this before. Since they built my car, I think they have done another 6-8, and have only a couple of unused chassis left. I don't know whether they have repeated my tank placement in any subsequent cars.

[Sway]

Didn't Chris's son rejuvenate it a little while ago with fuel injection and new airbox/exhaust for current regs?

Doing a quick google shows up an article from here a few years ago, apparently also changes to the wheels and suspension (increased rate rear anti roll bar to reduce a slightly 'wayward' back end).

Suppose they're still available upon request?

Duncan Hamilton has one for sale at the moment, unfortunately as they've not suffered Citroen levels of depreciation it's far out of reach for me currently.

[flemke]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Wait a Mo.

Are you suggesting Flemke that LCC still can / do make a Rocket ?

Yes, I think they have 2 chassis left, will build car to suit buyer's preferences.

[flemke]

Sway said:

Didn't Chris's son rejuvenate it a little while ago with fuel injection and new airbox/exhaust for current regs?

Doing a quick google shows up an article from here a few years ago, apparently also changes to the wheels and suspension (increased rate rear anti roll bar to reduce a slightly 'wayward' back end).

Suppose they're still available upon request?

Duncan Hamilton has one for sale at the moment, unfortunately as they've not suffered Citroen levels of depreciation it's far out of reach for me currently.

They have done some development over the years, more for their own amusement than anything else, but they will work with any owner who would like to explore options. As you say, they have played with springs and wheels, IIRC they put a supercharger on one or two cars.
Does the car have a rear ARB?

I suppose anything is possible, but I am not sure that they want to have another run of spaceframes made. The newer batch of finished cars, starting with mine in about '06, were made up from a set of racing car chassis that had been made at the same time as the road cars were in production in the '90s. The intended racing series did not go ahead, and the racing chassis sat in storage for about a decade. It is my impression that they do not intend to extend the production run beyond the original (combined road and racing) chassis, although, were they to be tempted, perhaps they would have another go. As of a couple of weeks ago, they had 2 original racing chassis that were not spoken for.

[Dr JonboyG]

Mr F: what's your current stance on letting people write about your car? About to be running the auto coverage for Ars Technica full time, and would love to do a feature on it if you'd be game, but completely understand if that's not something you're at all interested in.

[Sway]

Interesting stuff, thanks.

Really enjoyed looking over one, the cockpit area seems to be very individual, but surprising amount of room it seemed. 'Just right' seemed to fit.

Dunno if it has a rear arb, info came from here: http://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-features-ne...

[flemke]

Sway said:

Interesting stuff, thanks.

Really enjoyed looking over one, the cockpit area seems to be very individual, but surprising amount of room it seemed. 'Just right' seemed to fit.

Dunno if it has a rear arb, info came from here: http://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-features-ne...

I don't think that is correct. You may recall that Gordon does not like ARBs - the F1 has one at the front but none at the rear.

Yes, there is quite a bit of room around the driver. I drove my car from UK to the 'Ring and back again with soft luggage, etc, either side of and behind me and had plenty of room.

[flemke]

Dr JonboyG said:

Mr F: what's your current stance on letting people write about your car? About to be running the auto coverage for Ars Technica full time, and would love to do a feature on it if you'd be game, but completely understand if that's not something you're at all interested in.

I think that would depend on what you have in mind, Doc.

There are a number of specific details of what I undertook in my changes to the car, which required a decade of blood, sweat and near-tears to do, which I have not posted here. I have made that decision (not to publicise) out of pure selfishness, and am inclined to stick to it.

On the other hand, anything that is in this thread is public domain and thus fair game as far as I am concerned.

If you wanted to discuss further privately, I would be happy to do that.

[Dr JonboyG]

flemke said:

I think that would depend on what you have in mind, Doc.

There are a number of specific details of what I undertook in my changes to the car, which required a decade of blood, sweat and near-tears to do, which I have not posted here. I have made that decision (not to publicise) out of pure selfishness, and am inclined to stick to it.

On the other hand, anything that is in this thread is public domain and thus fair game as far as I am concerned.

If you wanted to discuss further privately, I would be happy to do that.

Is your email address still the name of a corner at the 'ring? If so, will shoot you an email tonight or tomorrow.

[flemke]

Dr JonboyG said:

flemke said:

I think that would depend on what you have in mind, Doc.

There are a number of specific details of what I undertook in my changes to the car, which required a decade of blood, sweat and near-tears to do, which I have not posted here. I have made that decision (not to publicise) out of pure selfishness, and am inclined to stick to it.

On the other hand, anything that is in this thread is public domain and thus fair game as far as I am concerned.

If you wanted to discuss further privately, I would be happy to do that.

Is your email address still the name of a corner at the 'ring? If so, will shoot you an email tonight or tomorrow.

Ja.

[DeuxCentCinq]

Mr F, seeing as I find I tend to agree with you on most of what you say about cars, your preferences for certain things etc. I was wondering how you felt about Morgans?

Having been to the excellent PH Sunday Service at Malvern and taken a couple of the factory tours, I was very impressed with the craftsmanship and their dedication to detail. A couple of rides out in a 3 Wheeler and the MD's personal Aero 8 convertible thingy and I'm convinced I need one. I actually like the fact that they use wood. It seems right, somehow. They build cars that are fun to drive - the epitome of a sports car, in my opinion - rather than outright fast.
I find as I get older I'm not worried about who and how many things overtake me, but purely how much I myself am having while driving. It seems that a Morgan provides real-world exploitable fun, albeit at a premium for the craftsmanship involved.

Have you ever considered one, or visited the factory?

[flemke]

DeuxCentCinq said:

Mr F, seeing as I find I tend to agree with you on most of what you say about cars, your preferences for certain things etc. I was wondering how you felt about Morgans?

Having been to the excellent PH Sunday Service at Malvern and taken a couple of the factory tours, I was very impressed with the craftsmanship and their dedication to detail. A couple of rides out in a 3 Wheeler and the MD's personal Aero 8 convertible thingy and I'm convinced I need one. I actually like the fact that they use wood. It seems right, somehow. They build cars that are fun to drive - the epitome of a sports car, in my opinion - rather than outright fast.
I find as I get older I'm not worried about who and how many things overtake me, but purely how much I myself am having while driving. It seems that a Morgan provides real-world exploitable fun, albeit at a premium for the craftsmanship involved.

Have you ever considered one, or visited the factory?

About 10 years ago, before production started, a friend pre-ordered an Aero 8. By the time they were ready for him to confirm the order, however, he had begun to have second thoughts. They invited him to come to Malvern for a look around the factory and to test-drive an early car. I went with him.

They offered me a test drive. Apart from the fact that there was a gap between one of the "closed" side windows and the top that was big enough for me to fit my thumb into, I was seriously put off by the driver ergonomics.

I was going out for the test-drive. I got myself into my normal driving position, elbows bent, etc. I drove out of the parking lot and started down the road.

By the time I had gone no more than 400 metres, I discovered that the seat side bolsters were so fat and came so far forward that, whenever I tried to put on as much as 90° steering lock, one of my elbows would get baulked. It was not possible to steer the car properly.

I immediately pulled the car over to the side of the road and told the Morgan guy that it would be dangerous for me to drive the car any farther.

That is my total experience with the cars. I have never liked the look of any of the modern Morgans. The original one is still a handsome car, it brings a smile to other people's faces, and you can't go wrong with a BMW engine. If I were in the market for a Lord Peter Wimsey-type car, I would consider the older model. The new ones, however, I try to steer clear of - in vehicles that I can actually steer.

[Mezzanine]

Well they must have taken your constructive feedback onboard when they (re)designed the 3 wheeler and just done away with 'sides' to give those ample-armed gentlemen more room to persuade it through corners

[DeuxCentCinq]

Mezzanine said:

Well they must have taken your constructive feedback onboard when they (re)designed the 3 wheeler and just done away with 'sides' to give those ample-armed gentlemen more room to persuade it through corners

Haha. I was just about to say, give the 3 wheeler a go. And maybe a Plus 8 too.