Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)
Discussion
flemke said:
AIUI, Ron did have a previous F1, which he had spec'd from new in brown paint. That was a brave choice, for which I give him credit, although I am not sure that the result worked well.
In the event, Ron did not like the paint choice, and had them make him a second car, in silver. The brown car was then sold by the factory to a customer, in a deal with which Ron had nothing to do.
The chap who bought the brown car told me that, during the sales process, he had been grossly misled by the McLaren salesman who flogged the car to him. When the truth came out, the buyer went to Ron to complain. Ron was appalled by the salesman's behaviour. He made things right with the buyer (took back the brown car and let him spec a new car at the same price) and, AIUI, sacked the salesman.
The buyer, who the last I knew (this was a few years ago) still owned the (replacement) car, was located in Lincolnshire. He was in a very different industry from being a garage owner, and had not come from F1 nor made his money through a compensation pay-out.
That's very interesting. This fella could potentially own the brown car then. Does anyone know the whereabouts of that car? Or the chassis # so I can try and track it down? In the event, Ron did not like the paint choice, and had them make him a second car, in silver. The brown car was then sold by the factory to a customer, in a deal with which Ron had nothing to do.
The chap who bought the brown car told me that, during the sales process, he had been grossly misled by the McLaren salesman who flogged the car to him. When the truth came out, the buyer went to Ron to complain. Ron was appalled by the salesman's behaviour. He made things right with the buyer (took back the brown car and let him spec a new car at the same price) and, AIUI, sacked the salesman.
The buyer, who the last I knew (this was a few years ago) still owned the (replacement) car, was located in Lincolnshire. He was in a very different industry from being a garage owner, and had not come from F1 nor made his money through a compensation pay-out.
AshBurrows said:
flemke said:
AIUI, Ron did have a previous F1, which he had spec'd from new in brown paint. That was a brave choice, for which I give him credit, although I am not sure that the result worked well.
In the event, Ron did not like the paint choice, and had them make him a second car, in silver. The brown car was then sold by the factory to a customer, in a deal with which Ron had nothing to do.
The chap who bought the brown car told me that, during the sales process, he had been grossly misled by the McLaren salesman who flogged the car to him. When the truth came out, the buyer went to Ron to complain. Ron was appalled by the salesman's behaviour. He made things right with the buyer (took back the brown car and let him spec a new car at the same price) and, AIUI, sacked the salesman.
The buyer, who the last I knew (this was a few years ago) still owned the (replacement) car, was located in Lincolnshire. He was in a very different industry from being a garage owner, and had not come from F1 nor made his money through a compensation pay-out.
That's very interesting. This fella could potentially own the brown car then. Does anyone know the whereabouts of that car? Or the chassis # so I can try and track it down? In the event, Ron did not like the paint choice, and had them make him a second car, in silver. The brown car was then sold by the factory to a customer, in a deal with which Ron had nothing to do.
The chap who bought the brown car told me that, during the sales process, he had been grossly misled by the McLaren salesman who flogged the car to him. When the truth came out, the buyer went to Ron to complain. Ron was appalled by the salesman's behaviour. He made things right with the buyer (took back the brown car and let him spec a new car at the same price) and, AIUI, sacked the salesman.
The buyer, who the last I knew (this was a few years ago) still owned the (replacement) car, was located in Lincolnshire. He was in a very different industry from being a garage owner, and had not come from F1 nor made his money through a compensation pay-out.
I do not know what happened to the brown car. A few years ago there was speculation that it was living in Mexico:
flemke said:
If you have a need, as you do, that's a different story. If one had a towing need, also a need for long distance driving, and could have only one car, then the Range Rover could be ideal.
I would guess that less than 1% of Range Rover owners have that need; for them the car is a fashion statement.
I took note when someone told me that she liked driving a Range Rover in town, "because the other cars are scared of me". Said a lot, I thought.
Im surprised that you, of all people, are so dismissive of other people's tastes.I would guess that less than 1% of Range Rover owners have that need; for them the car is a fashion statement.
I took note when someone told me that she liked driving a Range Rover in town, "because the other cars are scared of me". Said a lot, I thought.
In 99% of driving you don't need a 700hp monster that weighs the same as a dormouse but you have it because you like it.
I would love an F1, or course, but I would also love a Range Rover. Not as a fashion statement but because I like them and I like the idea of silent luxurious cruising in a behemoth.
Just slightly hypocritical dismissing 'fashion statement' cars if they aren't used for the purpose they are built imo.
flemke said:
Perhaps I was not clear. Under false pretences, the dodgy salesman persuaded this chap to buy the brown car. When the dodgy salesman was found out, the customer went to Ron, who told him that McLaren would take the brown car back and, for the same cost, give him his own build slot. The man accepted Ron's offer. The brown car thus went back to McLaren's ownership, temporarily.
I do not know what happened to the brown car. A few years ago there was speculation that it was living in Mexico:
That registration number is still showing on a mclaren chassis 39 is showing now as yellow I do not know what happened to the brown car. A few years ago there was speculation that it was living in Mexico:
blindswelledrat said:
flemke said:
If you have a need, as you do, that's a different story. If one had a towing need, also a need for long distance driving, and could have only one car, then the Range Rover could be ideal.
I would guess that less than 1% of Range Rover owners have that need; for them the car is a fashion statement.
I took note when someone told me that she liked driving a Range Rover in town, "because the other cars are scared of me". Said a lot, I thought.
Im surprised that you, of all people, are so dismissive of other people's tastes.I would guess that less than 1% of Range Rover owners have that need; for them the car is a fashion statement.
I took note when someone told me that she liked driving a Range Rover in town, "because the other cars are scared of me". Said a lot, I thought.
In 99% of driving you don't need a 700hp monster that weighs the same as a dormouse but you have it because you like it.
I would love an F1, or course, but I would also love a Range Rover. Not as a fashion statement but because I like them and I like the idea of silent luxurious cruising in a behemoth.
Just slightly hypocritical dismissing 'fashion statement' cars if they aren't used for the purpose they are built imo.
blindswelledrat said:
flemke said:
If you have a need, as you do, that's a different story. If one had a towing need, also a need for long distance driving, and could have only one car, then the Range Rover could be ideal.
I would guess that less than 1% of Range Rover owners have that need; for them the car is a fashion statement.
I took note when someone told me that she liked driving a Range Rover in town, "because the other cars are scared of me". Said a lot, I thought.
Im surprised that you, of all people, are so dismissive of other people's tastes.I would guess that less than 1% of Range Rover owners have that need; for them the car is a fashion statement.
I took note when someone told me that she liked driving a Range Rover in town, "because the other cars are scared of me". Said a lot, I thought.
In 99% of driving you don't need a 700hp monster that weighs the same as a dormouse but you have it because you like it.
I would love an F1, or course, but I would also love a Range Rover. Not as a fashion statement but because I like them and I like the idea of silent luxurious cruising in a behemoth.
Just slightly hypocritical dismissing 'fashion statement' cars if they aren't used for the purpose they are built imo.
We're engaged here in friendly banter. In that context, not to mention in real life, I think it is important to make distinctions, to form judgments and to have values. Without them, life would be pretty boring.
The subject of cars is trivial but, as they are applied to other subjects, if we did not make discriminations and have values, I suspect the world would be even more uncivilised than it is.
Sharing one's opinions with others is not the same as imposing one's opinions on others. The former is normally harmless, can be illuminating, and even fun. The latter, as you know, is frequently harmful, sometimes seriously so.
We tend to learn little from them who agree with us and tell us what we want to hear. We learn from them who disagree with us, or who surprise us.
I do find "fashion statements" to be one of the less noble expressions of humanity. To my mind, the point of making a fashion statement is to attempt to impress others simply for the sake of impressing them or receiving their approbation, irrespective of the intrinsic value of what is being undertaken. Fashion statements, as is fashion, are bullying, degrading and mindless. I suppose we all are susceptible to them to some extent, but when we succumb to them I think we lower ourselves.
Cheers.
That's what I was pointing out - I don't NEED a luxurious car in the same way as I don't NEED a microwave oven or a comfortable mattress.
I like having those things though.
Actually, to expand on that, I don't need to survive. But if I am to survive, I need certain conditions.
I like having those things though.
Actually, to expand on that, I don't need to survive. But if I am to survive, I need certain conditions.
Edited by RobinBanks on Friday 18th September 17:27
Obi Wan said:
Just popped into my head but if you had a chance to buy an f1 LM would you? From what I gather it's a bit more aggressive than the standard car but more mellow than the GTR. The best of both worlds it seems.
I had the chance about 8-10 years ago to buy the one that Ralph Lauren ended up buying. The previous owner went through the factory to sell it, and the factory contacted existing owners who they thought might be interested in the proposed private "auction".Ultimately I was not interested for two reasons. The first was that the LM is not really "better than" a GTR. The problems with GTR as road car I have described above: bad turning circle, wrong instruments, no a/c and, especially, the unbearable noise from the gearbox. The LM has two of those problems: bad turning circle, and horrible noise from gearbox.
Although LM has more power than GTR, it is also heavier. Purely for driving considerations, I'd rather have the less powerful but lighter version.
The other reason I was not interested was that I had a feeling that the seller was going to play games with the "auction" process.
To be specific, the seller said, through McLaren, that the sealed bids for the car would be due on date "X" and time "Y".
I asked, "Okay, does that mean that, one minute after 'Y', McLaren will know who the winner is and that person will immediately be informed?"
"Ummm, errr, hmmm...."
Having quite a lot of experience with auctions and bidding processes, I believed that that lack of commitment to a bona fide auction process meant one thing: that the seller was planning, after receiving the blind bids, to go back to the bidders and try to play them off against each other. The old "Well, someone else's bid was higher than yours. Would you now like to come back to us with an improved bid?" trick. Then if that guy raises his bid, the seller goes to the original high bidder - who deserved to win the first time although he's not aware of that - and tries to get him to raise his bid: "Your bid is in the ballpark, but someone else is higher. Would you like to raise your bid?"
I absolutely despise those 5hitty little games.
For those two reasons - flawed car and illegitimate auction process - although I seriously considered it, I declined to bid.
In the event, as I understand it, only two people bid and, as I had expected, the seller (whose identity is in the public domain, although I shan't write it here) played the two bidders off against each other in order to squeeze a bit more out of them. Lauren obviously was the winner.
(What was intimated to me as) the winning bid was close to what I was thinking of bidding. On that simplistic basis, if I had bid I might have won, although who knows how high Lauren might have gone if he had needed to do?
Flemke, was your figure close, as in yours was higher, or lower than the winning number? Also, if you had bought the LM, would it have been in addition to, or instead of, your blue steed?,and finally if you had bought it, would you have tried the upgrades you've done to your current F1 on the LM?
Monty Python said:
Wouldn't it have been the auction house that decided how the auction would be handled rather than Lauren himself? After all, the more the car sells for the more commission they'd make.
Pity I'll never be in the position to worry about such things :-(
There was no auction house involved. As have done most F1 owners, this owner went back to the factory and said that he wanted to sell his car, would McLaren please contact those persons known to them who might be interested, and, by the way, he wanted the price-setting process to be a private auction rather than a negotiation. Yes, McLaren take a fixed % commission on every sale that they broker, but their interest is in getting a figure agreed that is "fair" to both sides, rather than in ramping the price to the max which is the auction house way.Pity I'll never be in the position to worry about such things :-(
Obi Wan said:
I can see why you didn't bid for it then considering the circumstances. It would have been better if they just stuck all of the interested parties in the same room and let things unfold.
There are all kinds of auctions. In this case, the seller wanted to have his cake and eat it - the advantages of an auction but also the advantages of a negotiation.
hurstg01 said:
Flemke, was your figure close, as in yours was higher, or lower than the winning number? Also, if you had bought the LM, would it have been in addition to, or instead of, your blue steed?,and finally if you had bought it, would you have tried the upgrades you've done to your current F1 on the LM?
The starting point in this stuff is not what you yourself would be willing to pay but rather what you think the highest bidder (excluding yourself) would pay. My pre-auction guess of what the highest bidder was likely to be willing to pay was almost exactly the price that, it was later intimated to me, was the price at which it sold.Based on my pre-auction guess, if this had been a legitimate blind-bid auction, as opposed to the farce orchestrated by the seller, I would have bid somewhere between 12 and 15% over the supposed sale price.
flemke said:
I have owned the F1 15 times as long and have driven it 18 times as far. Perhaps inevitably, it has required more fettling during my ownership than the P1 has done.
I assume there is much less scope for fettling on the P1 than the F1, in terms of what can be done and what needs improving/fettling Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff