Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)
Discussion
chris333 said:
flemke said:
(One should ignore the Autocar "official" 0-200 time, which is about 25% slower than what the car will actually do.)
Why was the Autocar time so slow?Background is that a friend (who is more enamoured of straight-line speed than anyone I know) got a Veyron, began using it on the roads, as one will do, and said that he was sure that, in the mid-100s and higher, the Veyron accelerated less quickly than an F1 would do. He then did a side-to-side test (
) which demonstrated that indeed in the upper half of the speed range the F1 was the faster car.This induced me to look more carefully at the "official" Autocar numbers from back in 1994.
According to Autocar, the F1's times were:
0-100: 6.3 seconds
0-150: 12.8
0-200: 28.0
The 0-100 makes sense, if you will. I don't know about the 0-150, but the 0-200 time seems a lot.
The Veyron's 0-60 was 2-something. The 0-100 was 5.5, which fits with the F1's 6.3, in that the Veyron's greatly superior 4WD traction under power is going to make itself felt in 0-100 as well as in 0-60.
So far the numbers add up.
I can't readily put my fingers on a 0-150 time for normal Veyron, but the recorded time for Veyron Super Sport is 10.2. Relative to that, Autocar's time for F1 of 12.8 could be right or wrong, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt.
Now, the same Veyron Super Sport appears to have a 0-200 time of 22.2 ( http://fastestlaps.com/cars/bugatti_veyron_164_sup... ), so time from 150-200 is 12.0 seconds.
According to Autocar "official" test, it takes the F1 15.2 seconds to go from 150-200 (they did not take that specific measurement, but I just subtract 0-150 time from 0-200 time).
However, let us not be misled by whatever that magazine claims to have measured 20 years ago. Let us instead GO TO THE TAPE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYmIfDAQ9Y0
It is clear here that Andy Wallace is still in the 240s at 18 seconds (he's not really accelerating until the banking starts to flatten), and he hits 322 at 30 seconds. Elapsed time from one to the other: 12 seconds. That is the same elapsed time as the Bugatti Super Sport, which you will know is faster than the normal Veyron. Ergo, my friend, and his side-by-side test, were correct.
If we take Autocar's measured 0-150 time for F1 of "12.8" as correct (although, given the substantial error in their 0-200 time, that time may also be too long), and add the 12 seconds which, as we can see with our own eyes, is the F1's 150-200 time, that gets us to 24.8 seconds, not "28" seconds.
In the past, I have scrutinised the entire Andy Wallace Ehra-Lessien tape on VHS. There is another section in it where he accelerates from low 120s to Vmax. Using that bit, which TBH I cannot be bothered to find ATM, I estimated that the F1's actual 0-200 time was about 22 seconds.
How Autocar got their numbers, I could not say, but clearly they are not entirely accurate.
Cheers.
ETA:
I now see ( http://fastestlaps.com/cars/bugatti_eb_164_veyron.... ) that normal Veyron's times are:
0-100: 5.1 (not sure how it could be faster than Super Sport, but whatever)
0-150: 11.3
0-200: 24.3
which confirm that, from 100 upwards, the F1 is the faster car.
Edited by flemke on Monday 25th August 14:20
If the McLaren is faster past 100 than a veyron one wonders how it manages a fairly substantially higher top speed than the F1...one would usually expect it to be quicker.
It's odd, I like focused sports cars (like the F1), I like big GT cars and barges but the veyron has never done it for me. Quite why I'm not so sure.
It's odd, I like focused sports cars (like the F1), I like big GT cars and barges but the veyron has never done it for me. Quite why I'm not so sure.
LarJammer said:
flemke said:
Carrera GT, still selling for less than its RRP of 10 years ago, whilst the price of pretty much every other car good car on the planet has gone through the roof, and even a cookie-cutter 4.0 RS now goes for more than a CGT will do, I would like to hear that.
i have tried (and failed) to understand some of the current prices of 'classic cars'. and dont even mutter the words 'barn find'. however perhaps the most confusing value is for the honda nsx, why so cheap? the price of a similar vintage 911 has rocketed, but the honda is a far superior car in every way. got to be the best vfm available today.That quality is not easily described in journalists' road tests, if indeed it is even noticed.
The car's acceleration is easily measured, and it is not the greatest. Not awful, but by current standards underwhelming.
Also, bear in mind that Honda produced 18,000 NSXs; despite the infrequency of seeing one on the road, they aren't really scarce.
Finally, there are a lot of stupid people about. With the money that it would cost you to buy one GT3 4.0 in RHD, you could buy 10 NSXs. Duuuuh.
E65Ross said:
If the McLaren is faster past 100 than a veyron one wonders how it manages a fairly substantially higher top speed than the F1...one would usually expect it to be quicker.
It's odd, I like focused sports cars (like the F1), I like big GT cars and barges but the veyron has never done it for me. Quite why I'm not so sure.
Not sure, but recall that Veyron has that "Top Speed" key, which lowers the car, lowers the rear wing, and closes some of the flaps. That can be used only from standing start and it will default to standard if brakes are applied or a bit of steering lock is applied. Perhaps all times apart from Vmax were done without that setting.It's odd, I like focused sports cars (like the F1), I like big GT cars and barges but the veyron has never done it for me. Quite why I'm not so sure.
stevesingo said:
I think you are doing what I did, mentally splicing the official lower speed ETs with the higher speed ET as shown in the video.It is pretty clear, is it not, that Autocar's "28 seconds" greatly overestimates the car's actual 0-200 time?
Joe911 said:
Not really - furry dice are the default xmas present to any petrolhead ... assuming they already have the Top Gear annual.
I have never been given either. I presume no one has ever bought me the furry dice as I'm not well liked. Conversely I presume no one has ever bought me the Top Gear annual as I'm not despised.
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