Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)
Discussion
br d said:
flemke said:
...but perhaps I should pursue further.
Nah, love the one you're with!I'm not convinced of the argument anyway. The 12C is a very pretty car and I'll admit that it seems more coherent as an entity than the 650S but these things have a habit of transiency.
Look at a 288 GTO, an odder looking b
disation of form and effect you couldn't wish for but time has giving it a purity not many appreciated at it's birth.Having collected a 288 from the factory back in 1985 I couldn't agree more.
Always loved the brutal looks of the 288. Did (does) exactly what it said on the tin at the time. Odd though the door mirrors are I remember that they worked extremely well.
There is nothing that I dislike about the 288.
Loved it when I drove it through the factory gates, loved it when I drove through Europe on the way home, loved it when I wrote out a cheque for just over £9.5k to get the car through customs at Dover when the car came off the ferry & loved it when the car arrived 'home' at Kings Norton, Birmingham.
I haven't seen a P1 in the flesh so, annoyingly, I can't make any comment about its looks.
fatboy69 said:
Nah, love the one you're with!
I'm not convinced of the argument anyway. The 12C is a very pretty car and I'll admit that it seems more coherent as an entity than the 650S but these things have a habit of transiency.
Look at a 288 GTO, an odder looking bdisation of form and effect you couldn't wish for but time has giving it a purity not many appreciated at it's birth.
Having collected a 288 from the factory back in 1985 I couldn't agree more.
Always loved the brutal looks of the 288. Did (does) exactly what it said on the tin at the time. Odd though the door mirrors are I remember that they worked extremely well.
There is nothing that I dislike about the 288.
Loved it when I drove it through the factory gates, loved it when I drove through Europe on the way home, loved it when I wrote out a cheque for just over £9.5k to get the car through customs at Dover when the car came off the ferry & loved it when the car arrived 'home' at Kings Norton, Birmingham.
I haven't seen a P1 in the flesh so, annoyingly, I can't make any comment about its looks.
Have I just read it correctly that a 288 GTO that was brand new ended up in Kings Norton, Birmingham?! I'm not convinced of the argument anyway. The 12C is a very pretty car and I'll admit that it seems more coherent as an entity than the 650S but these things have a habit of transiency.
Look at a 288 GTO, an odder looking b
disation of form and effect you couldn't wish for but time has giving it a purity not many appreciated at it's birth.Having collected a 288 from the factory back in 1985 I couldn't agree more.
Always loved the brutal looks of the 288. Did (does) exactly what it said on the tin at the time. Odd though the door mirrors are I remember that they worked extremely well.
There is nothing that I dislike about the 288.
Loved it when I drove it through the factory gates, loved it when I drove through Europe on the way home, loved it when I wrote out a cheque for just over £9.5k to get the car through customs at Dover when the car came off the ferry & loved it when the car arrived 'home' at Kings Norton, Birmingham.
I haven't seen a P1 in the flesh so, annoyingly, I can't make any comment about its looks.
br d said:
flemke said:
br d said:
flemke said:
...but perhaps I should pursue further.
Nah, love the one you're with!
Apparently a producer kept getting NY to re-take his vocal, after many tries the producer said "You're always a semitone flat" Neil said "Yeah man, that's my style".
I'm not convinced of the argument anyway. The 12C is a very pretty car and I'll admit that it seems more coherent as an entity than the 650S but these things have a habit of transiency.
Look at a 288 GTO, an odder looking b
disation of form and effect you couldn't wish for but time has giving it a purity not many appreciated at it's birth.I like the 650S (although I would say that!), I think it's shape will get better as time moves on.
Perhaps I'm not the best person to judge though, I think the Zonda is a terribly confused looking thing (especially that awful, kaleidoscope looking interior) and I've always thought the 911RS with it's orange wheels and Barry Boy stickers looks like it fell out of a Christmas cracker!
br d said:
flemke said:
I am afraid that I cannot agree that the 288 has improved with age. I appreciate that many folks disagree (or believe that it has always been beautiful), but they are wrong.
The 288 has a lovely profile, something at which Ferrari have often excelled, so fair enough. But the 288's door mirrors are these horrible mock-periscopes: they didn't have to be that way; just look at the elegant door mirrors on the 959 to see how, contemporaneously, it was possible to design a beautiful mirror shell.
Then there is the 288's front end/bumper area:
I have seen better looking snow plows:
I agree the 288 is a bit of an oddity but to me it has something classic about it, maybe it needs another 20 years.The 288 has a lovely profile, something at which Ferrari have often excelled, so fair enough. But the 288's door mirrors are these horrible mock-periscopes: they didn't have to be that way; just look at the elegant door mirrors on the 959 to see how, contemporaneously, it was possible to design a beautiful mirror shell.
Then there is the 288's front end/bumper area:
I have seen better looking snow plows:
I know this might seem unpopular but as much as the LaFerrari is an absolutely staggering car it is just plain ugly to my eyes, all over the place, nothing seems to work. The 918 however is as smooth as silk, just drips of my vision.
Anyway, google images gives me this!
I do love the P1 though. It does have some slight disjointedness but I can forgive it for all the magic it carries.
br d said:
flemke said:
I totally agree with you about the Zonda. I actually spent a considerable amount of time trying (for my own purposes, not commercially) to redesign the rear of the car, in the hope that I could clean up some of the visual harshness. As for the interior, maybe it's just me, but I kind of like instruments that I can read, you know? Italic writing on a speedometer or tach doesn't really cut it.
The exterior of the Huayra is another story, IMO - really nice overall design. Too bad they kept the interior from the Zonda! I don't want to knock Horacio and his team, however, as what they have done in 15 years, starting from almost nothing, has been really impressive. He had his own vision and he has stuck to it. Not my thing, but good on him.
I always feel slightly fraudulent criticising cars I don't own, maybe one needs first hand experience to "get them" but the Zonda always seemed disjointed to me. I agree the Huayra is a much better deal from a distance, haven't been close enough to comment on the inside though. The exterior of the Huayra is another story, IMO - really nice overall design. Too bad they kept the interior from the Zonda! I don't want to knock Horacio and his team, however, as what they have done in 15 years, starting from almost nothing, has been really impressive. He had his own vision and he has stuck to it. Not my thing, but good on him.
Different strokes and all that.
I knew I'd never pull all that quoting off!
If you want to know what the interior of the Huayra looks like, think of the interior of the Zonda, as it is the same thing.
Edited by flemke on Sunday 22 November 23:28
greygoose said:
flemke said:
The space is just big enough to hold the bespoke battery charger thingy, which is pretty heavy. I searched unsuccessfully on Google for an image of one, but I have just remembered that I have a spare downstairs, which I shall now go measure....
Okay, in its padded carrier bag, the charger thingy is 11" tall, 8" thick, and 20" long. It sits in the boot space laterally, so that the 20" is left-to-right and the 8" is front-to-rear. My recollection is that, with it sitting in the storage space under the bonnet, there is zero additional space front-to-rear (8"), there are a few inches extra space left-to-right (enough for two pairs of shoes, that sort of thing), and on the top I think you might be able to lay a jacket, something soft and fairly thin. That's really it.
I guess that the total under-bonnet space would be equivalent to one medium-sized soft bag, maybe two if you could squash them a bit.
Behind the seats there is a shelf which will accommodate a jacket or jumper in each corner, but nothing in the middle if you want to keep your rear vision clear.
I don't know anything about the comparable space in 12C or 650S, but in 675 the under-bonnet space goes down deeper. It is probably twice as large in total volume relative to P1's, and the space behind the seats also seems to be roughly twice as great. Two people could carry enough stuff in a 675 to do an overnight trip without a great deal of privation (even if one of them was a female
), whereas in the P1 although two people could do it they would def have to pack light.
Do you have to carry the battery charger thing round with you all the time or could you just run it as a "normal car"?Okay, in its padded carrier bag, the charger thingy is 11" tall, 8" thick, and 20" long. It sits in the boot space laterally, so that the 20" is left-to-right and the 8" is front-to-rear. My recollection is that, with it sitting in the storage space under the bonnet, there is zero additional space front-to-rear (8"), there are a few inches extra space left-to-right (enough for two pairs of shoes, that sort of thing), and on the top I think you might be able to lay a jacket, something soft and fairly thin. That's really it.
I guess that the total under-bonnet space would be equivalent to one medium-sized soft bag, maybe two if you could squash them a bit.
Behind the seats there is a shelf which will accommodate a jacket or jumper in each corner, but nothing in the middle if you want to keep your rear vision clear.
I don't know anything about the comparable space in 12C or 650S, but in 675 the under-bonnet space goes down deeper. It is probably twice as large in total volume relative to P1's, and the space behind the seats also seems to be roughly twice as great. Two people could carry enough stuff in a 675 to do an overnight trip without a great deal of privation (even if one of them was a female
), whereas in the P1 although two people could do it they would def have to pack light.(Sorry if this is obvious but I have no experience with such cars)
No, you don't need to drag around the charger. The charge should last at least a fortnight without need for maintenance or boost.
If however you were going to drive the car somewhere to leave for say a month, you would want to have the charger with you. In designing the car, McLaren rightly reckoned that it would not be reasonable to expect a traveling owner to have to send the charger by separate transport.
Yes Michael.
Along with a Porsche 959, Ferrari Daytona, F40, JPS Lotus 92 F1 car, the 1962 F1 world championship winning BRM P578 & around 300 other cars amassed over a number of years.
And, at the time, the worlds only complete collection of every Grop B rally car ever built. Both road going & full rally spec cars.
Most sadly now gone to new homes. Apart from a few gems that have been retained by their owner &, in some cases, re-purchased.
Happy days.
Along with a Porsche 959, Ferrari Daytona, F40, JPS Lotus 92 F1 car, the 1962 F1 world championship winning BRM P578 & around 300 other cars amassed over a number of years.
And, at the time, the worlds only complete collection of every Grop B rally car ever built. Both road going & full rally spec cars.
Most sadly now gone to new homes. Apart from a few gems that have been retained by their owner &, in some cases, re-purchased.
Happy days.
flemke said:
Good question, answer not obvious.
No, you don't need to drag around the charger. The charge should last at least a fortnight without need for maintenance or boost.
If however you were going to drive the car somewhere to leave for say a month, you would want to have the charger with you. In designing the car, McLaren rightly reckoned that it would not be reasonable to expect a traveling owner to have to send the charger by separate transport.
Although, based on your earlier comment, they might expect them to send their clothing by separate transport. Or is it assumed they could just buy new each day and leave and behind, also avoiding laundry?No, you don't need to drag around the charger. The charge should last at least a fortnight without need for maintenance or boost.
If however you were going to drive the car somewhere to leave for say a month, you would want to have the charger with you. In designing the car, McLaren rightly reckoned that it would not be reasonable to expect a traveling owner to have to send the charger by separate transport.
fatboy69 said:
Yes Michael.
Along with a Porsche 959, Ferrari Daytona, F40, JPS Lotus 92 F1 car, the 1962 F1 world championship winning BRM P578 & around 300 other cars amassed over a number of years.
And, at the time, the worlds only complete collection of every Grop B rally car ever built. Both road going & full rally spec cars.
Most sadly now gone to new homes. Apart from a few gems that have been retained by their owner &, in some cases, re-purchased.
Happy days.
I'm amazed! Along with a Porsche 959, Ferrari Daytona, F40, JPS Lotus 92 F1 car, the 1962 F1 world championship winning BRM P578 & around 300 other cars amassed over a number of years.
And, at the time, the worlds only complete collection of every Grop B rally car ever built. Both road going & full rally spec cars.
Most sadly now gone to new homes. Apart from a few gems that have been retained by their owner &, in some cases, re-purchased.
Happy days.
andyps said:
flemke said:
Good question, answer not obvious.
No, you don't need to drag around the charger. The charge should last at least a fortnight without need for maintenance or boost.
If however you were going to drive the car somewhere to leave for say a month, you would want to have the charger with you. In designing the car, McLaren rightly reckoned that it would not be reasonable to expect a traveling owner to have to send the charger by separate transport.
Although, based on your earlier comment, they might expect them to send their clothing by separate transport. Or is it assumed they could just buy new each day and leave and behind, also avoiding laundry?No, you don't need to drag around the charger. The charge should last at least a fortnight without need for maintenance or boost.
If however you were going to drive the car somewhere to leave for say a month, you would want to have the charger with you. In designing the car, McLaren rightly reckoned that it would not be reasonable to expect a traveling owner to have to send the charger by separate transport.
michael243 said:
fatboy69 said:
Yes Michael.
Along with a Porsche 959, Ferrari Daytona, F40, JPS Lotus 92 F1 car, the 1962 F1 world championship winning BRM P578 & around 300 other cars amassed over a number of years.
And, at the time, the worlds only complete collection of every Grop B rally car ever built. Both road going & full rally spec cars.
Most sadly now gone to new homes. Apart from a few gems that have been retained by their owner &, in some cases, re-purchased.
Happy days.
I'm amazed! Along with a Porsche 959, Ferrari Daytona, F40, JPS Lotus 92 F1 car, the 1962 F1 world championship winning BRM P578 & around 300 other cars amassed over a number of years.
And, at the time, the worlds only complete collection of every Grop B rally car ever built. Both road going & full rally spec cars.
Most sadly now gone to new homes. Apart from a few gems that have been retained by their owner &, in some cases, re-purchased.
Happy days.
fatboy69 said:
michael243 said:
fatboy69 said:
Yes Michael.
Along with a Porsche 959, Ferrari Daytona, F40, JPS Lotus 92 F1 car, the 1962 F1 world championship winning BRM P578 & around 300 other cars amassed over a number of years.
And, at the time, the worlds only complete collection of every Grop B rally car ever built. Both road going & full rally spec cars.
Most sadly now gone to new homes. Apart from a few gems that have been retained by their owner &, in some cases, re-purchased.
Happy days.
I'm amazed! Along with a Porsche 959, Ferrari Daytona, F40, JPS Lotus 92 F1 car, the 1962 F1 world championship winning BRM P578 & around 300 other cars amassed over a number of years.
And, at the time, the worlds only complete collection of every Grop B rally car ever built. Both road going & full rally spec cars.
Most sadly now gone to new homes. Apart from a few gems that have been retained by their owner &, in some cases, re-purchased.
Happy days.
fatboy69 said:
michael243 said:
fatboy69 said:
Yes Michael.
Along with a Porsche 959, Ferrari Daytona, F40, JPS Lotus 92 F1 car, the 1962 F1 world championship winning BRM P578 & around 300 other cars amassed over a number of years.
And, at the time, the worlds only complete collection of every Grop B rally car ever built. Both road going & full rally spec cars.
Most sadly now gone to new homes. Apart from a few gems that have been retained by their owner &, in some cases, re-purchased.
Happy days.
I'm amazed! Along with a Porsche 959, Ferrari Daytona, F40, JPS Lotus 92 F1 car, the 1962 F1 world championship winning BRM P578 & around 300 other cars amassed over a number of years.
And, at the time, the worlds only complete collection of every Grop B rally car ever built. Both road going & full rally spec cars.
Most sadly now gone to new homes. Apart from a few gems that have been retained by their owner &, in some cases, re-purchased.
Happy days.
You would have been. Somewhere in the loft I have a lot of photos that I will scan in & upload onto PH.
Thought this might be of interest. Nice blue as well:
http://rmsothebys.com/az16/arizona/lots/1964-mclar...
http://rmsothebys.com/az16/arizona/lots/1964-mclar...
flemke said:
Good question, answer not obvious.
No, you don't need to drag around the charger. The charge should last at least a fortnight without need for maintenance or boost.
If however you were going to drive the car somewhere to leave for say a month, you would want to have the charger with you. In designing the car, McLaren rightly reckoned that it would not be reasonable to expect a traveling owner to have to send the charger by separate transport.
It is not unusual for a car to need either a charge or driving at least every two weeks.No, you don't need to drag around the charger. The charge should last at least a fortnight without need for maintenance or boost.
If however you were going to drive the car somewhere to leave for say a month, you would want to have the charger with you. In designing the car, McLaren rightly reckoned that it would not be reasonable to expect a traveling owner to have to send the charger by separate transport.
My Ultima, Cerbera and SL500 all need topping up every two weeks when not in use. I usually use a cTek on winter setting and leave it connected.
Good to know really expensive cars need the same!
Paul
Storer said:
flemke said:
Good question, answer not obvious.
No, you don't need to drag around the charger. The charge should last at least a fortnight without need for maintenance or boost.
If however you were going to drive the car somewhere to leave for say a month, you would want to have the charger with you. In designing the car, McLaren rightly reckoned that it would not be reasonable to expect a traveling owner to have to send the charger by separate transport.
It is not unusual for a car to need either a charge or driving at least every two weeks.No, you don't need to drag around the charger. The charge should last at least a fortnight without need for maintenance or boost.
If however you were going to drive the car somewhere to leave for say a month, you would want to have the charger with you. In designing the car, McLaren rightly reckoned that it would not be reasonable to expect a traveling owner to have to send the charger by separate transport.
My Ultima, Cerbera and SL500 all need topping up every two weeks when not in use. I usually use a cTek on winter setting and leave it connected.
Good to know really expensive cars need the same!
Paul
flemke said:
I had a feeling that you were from up that way - a Rovers fan?
Thank you, but I would not dream of asking for a freebie of your book. I wanted to ask you about something else. I'll see if a friend can contact you via PH and we'll go from there. In the meantime, I shall look at your Youtube videos. (I see why you had to change from "RU" to "Reg"! )
Joe911 has my contact details now Flemke.Thank you, but I would not dream of asking for a freebie of your book. I wanted to ask you about something else. I'll see if a friend can contact you via PH and we'll go from there. In the meantime, I shall look at your Youtube videos. (I see why you had to change from "RU" to "Reg"!
)Hi Flemke, Long time lurker finally coming out for a play here...
I know you have a Light Car Company Rocket and it has been one of my favorite cars to read about and such. A while back I heard someone wrote a book about the car, But alas I cannot find the name of it. I emailed the poster-who I presume to be the author, Clive Neville, back in march and here is what he had to say.
"The book is 30x30cm hard back about 250 pages. Full color and a mix of story and technical aspects of the LCC Rocket. It will be limited edition but not sure how limited at this point-probably 100-500 copies. The first 100 will e signed and would cost more. We are currently working out costs to purchasers based on what it is going to cost us for the print run, as it's being self published, there is no publisher to pick up the tab... "
Have you heard of any activity regarding this book and whether it is legit? Finding anything on the Rocket is hard, I was looking for a brochure to purchase and look at it and couldn't even find one!
I know you have a Light Car Company Rocket and it has been one of my favorite cars to read about and such. A while back I heard someone wrote a book about the car, But alas I cannot find the name of it. I emailed the poster-who I presume to be the author, Clive Neville, back in march and here is what he had to say.
"The book is 30x30cm hard back about 250 pages. Full color and a mix of story and technical aspects of the LCC Rocket. It will be limited edition but not sure how limited at this point-probably 100-500 copies. The first 100 will e signed and would cost more. We are currently working out costs to purchasers based on what it is going to cost us for the print run, as it's being self published, there is no publisher to pick up the tab... "
Have you heard of any activity regarding this book and whether it is legit? Finding anything on the Rocket is hard, I was looking for a brochure to purchase and look at it and couldn't even find one!
Storer said:
flemke said:
Good question, answer not obvious.
No, you don't need to drag around the charger. The charge should last at least a fortnight without need for maintenance or boost.
If however you were going to drive the car somewhere to leave for say a month, you would want to have the charger with you. In designing the car, McLaren rightly reckoned that it would not be reasonable to expect a traveling owner to have to send the charger by separate transport.
It is not unusual for a car to need either a charge or driving at least every two weeks.No, you don't need to drag around the charger. The charge should last at least a fortnight without need for maintenance or boost.
If however you were going to drive the car somewhere to leave for say a month, you would want to have the charger with you. In designing the car, McLaren rightly reckoned that it would not be reasonable to expect a traveling owner to have to send the charger by separate transport.
My Ultima, Cerbera and SL500 all need topping up every two weeks when not in use. I usually use a cTek on winter setting and leave it connected.
Good to know really expensive cars need the same!
Paul
I presume that the same applies to, for example, a Prius or a Tesla, although for them the economies of scale and lack of stranglehold on wealthy buyers make the price expensive rather than outrageous.
motordave said:
Thought this might be of interest. Nice blue as well:
http://rmsothebys.com/az16/arizona/lots/1964-mclar...
Thanks, Dave. http://rmsothebys.com/az16/arizona/lots/1964-mclar...
I used to own a vintage prototype racing car of the same genre but a bit later ('72). After restoration it was a lovely thing, but I just didn't have sufficient interest to get into the historic racing scene.
I do think that, in most cases, one would have to be insane to buy a car at auction.
The process is devised by the agent for the sole purpose of extracting the absolute highest possible marginal price for the benefit of the seller, a price that is often inflated by exploiting the human frailties of the buyer. For the privilege of getting sucked into that the buyer is required to pay most and sometimes all of the agent's fees of 10% on top of hammer price. That is ludicrous. WTF shouldn't the seller pay all the fees?
If any of the pricks who are in the car auctioning business tried to persuade me to buy a car at auction, I would tell them to f
k off. What a joke.Edited by flemke on Tuesday 24th November 10:15
Szulc said:
Hi Flemke, Long time lurker finally coming out for a play here...
I know you have a Light Car Company Rocket and it has been one of my favorite cars to read about and such. A while back I heard someone wrote a book about the car, But alas I cannot find the name of it. I emailed the poster-who I presume to be the author, Clive Neville, back in march and here is what he had to say.
"The book is 30x30cm hard back about 250 pages. Full color and a mix of story and technical aspects of the LCC Rocket. It will be limited edition but not sure how limited at this point-probably 100-500 copies. The first 100 will e signed and would cost more. We are currently working out costs to purchasers based on what it is going to cost us for the print run, as it's being self published, there is no publisher to pick up the tab... "
Have you heard of any activity regarding this book and whether it is legit? Finding anything on the Rocket is hard, I was looking for a brochure to purchase and look at it and couldn't even find one!
AFAIK, the project is real. Chris Craft first told me about Clive several years ago. Since then I have had correspondence with Clive on a number of occasions. At about the same time that you got the e-mail to which you refer, I got a similar e-mail from him. In reply I indicated to Clive what my interest would be and since then I have been hoping to hear further news.I know you have a Light Car Company Rocket and it has been one of my favorite cars to read about and such. A while back I heard someone wrote a book about the car, But alas I cannot find the name of it. I emailed the poster-who I presume to be the author, Clive Neville, back in march and here is what he had to say.
"The book is 30x30cm hard back about 250 pages. Full color and a mix of story and technical aspects of the LCC Rocket. It will be limited edition but not sure how limited at this point-probably 100-500 copies. The first 100 will e signed and would cost more. We are currently working out costs to purchasers based on what it is going to cost us for the print run, as it's being self published, there is no publisher to pick up the tab... "
Have you heard of any activity regarding this book and whether it is legit? Finding anything on the Rocket is hard, I was looking for a brochure to purchase and look at it and couldn't even find one!
Not connected to the book but relating to the Rocket, a few years back I spent a lot of time working on a design for some Rocket key fobs. I did part of the design, with an important design contribution by Rick Ward, who designed the fabulous Rocket logo and also has a couple of Beatles album covers on his CV, amongst many other things.
After much correspondence with one of the top enamel badge fabricators in the UK, all I needed to commission the work was for them to find some turquoise leather (with certain qualities required for a good key fob). They could not do so; I began to look for it myself. Then my personal life changed rather drastically and since then I have not had the time to get the key fob project restarted. I am however hopeful that the book will be forthcoming.
Rick's logo design:
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