Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)
Discussion
robinessex said:
Brings back a statement I made once before. If you want to be on the approved list, to buy the latest supercar or whatever, you're invited to a track demo. If you can't manage to extract 75% of it's potential, you can't have one! So there!
I'd prefer to see manufacturers just open the order book for a set period time. Anyone who orders one and pays the deposit during that time can have one. Davey S2 said:
robinessex said:
Brings back a statement I made once before. If you want to be on the approved list, to buy the latest supercar or whatever, you're invited to a track demo. If you can't manage to extract 75% of it's potential, you can't have one! So there!
I'd prefer to see manufacturers just open the order book for a set period time. Anyone who orders one and pays the deposit during that time can have one. jamies30 said:
andyps said:
jamies30 said:
Sort of like the stock market / forex / whatever ?
Yes, but the stock market and forex are examples of things specifically intended to be traded. I was under the impression that cars were built to be driven rather than traded as a primary function - although maybe with the way some manufacturers encourage flipping that is a naive view.I want to invest in a tiny mining company, because I heard they mine really ethically. You* buy a bazillion shares in them because you heard they are onto a hot prospect. You drive up the prices, I can't afford them any more. True enthusiast versus flipping scum, or...?
( * not you obviously)
The purpose of investing and trading is to make money. Everyone, from widow to day trader, who buys a share does so for that one reason.
The purpose of a car is to be driven. It is possible to make money by speculating in cars, but that is not why they exist.
Your other example of FX is slightly different from shares. You're right that a currency (or a commodity) has a practical day-to-day purpose. Cornering the market in a currency or commodity is incredibly rare. People have tried it, and usually ended up in tears.
Btw, your example of buying a bazillion shares for the purpose of driving up the price only rarely works in the buyer's favour. Almost always it works against the buyer. This is because, unlike cars of which every make and model is unique, shares are almost infinitely fungible. If the price of a certain share is too high, you can always buy something else that will serve exactly the same purpose. Thus the people who try to corner a market in shares invariably find themselves to be the only ones willing to buy at the level to which they have taken the shares. In that case, the price inevitably will fall, often to a level lower that it was when the ambitious dreamer began his purchases.
Davey S2 said:
robinessex said:
Brings back a statement I made once before. If you want to be on the approved list, to buy the latest supercar or whatever, you're invited to a track demo. If you can't manage to extract 75% of it's potential, you can't have one! So there!
I'd prefer to see manufacturers just open the order book for a set period time. Anyone who orders one and pays the deposit during that time can have one. Would also be nice for the manufacturer to require a minimum holding period, of say a year.
Another possibility would be for the factory to ban authorised dealers from selling for overs any car less than a year old, even on behalf of a customer.
flemke said:
Andy is right.
The purpose of investing and trading is to make money. Everyone, from widow to day trader, who buys a share does so for that one reason.
The purpose of a car is to be driven. It is possible to make money by speculating in cars, but that is not why they exist.
Your other example of FX is slightly different from shares. You're right that a currency (or a commodity) has a practical day-to-day purpose.
Makes sense. Investing in a commodity with no interest in the commodity per se and with the sole intention of reselling it at a profit is normal behavior, any upstanding member of the community would do that. Unless the commodity is a car.The purpose of investing and trading is to make money. Everyone, from widow to day trader, who buys a share does so for that one reason.
The purpose of a car is to be driven. It is possible to make money by speculating in cars, but that is not why they exist.
Your other example of FX is slightly different from shares. You're right that a currency (or a commodity) has a practical day-to-day purpose.
Hi Flemke,
A couple of questions if I may..
Do you/ have you always had a clean driving licence? From what you say you save a lot of your 'spirited' driving for when you're on the continent but one would imagine with the cars that you own it would be very easy to, and very difficult to exercise the restraint needed not to, hit speeds that would see many penalty points appear if one were to be caught. Apologies if this has been asked before, although I can't recall reading your answer.
Also, I seem to remember a very long time ago you said something along the lines of 'one of the things of most value in my home is a few bicycles', would you care to share what exactly you have? Do you have anything that was specifically made for you?
Eddie
A couple of questions if I may..
Do you/ have you always had a clean driving licence? From what you say you save a lot of your 'spirited' driving for when you're on the continent but one would imagine with the cars that you own it would be very easy to, and very difficult to exercise the restraint needed not to, hit speeds that would see many penalty points appear if one were to be caught. Apologies if this has been asked before, although I can't recall reading your answer.
Also, I seem to remember a very long time ago you said something along the lines of 'one of the things of most value in my home is a few bicycles', would you care to share what exactly you have? Do you have anything that was specifically made for you?
Eddie
flemke said:
Davey S2 said:
robinessex said:
Brings back a statement I made once before. If you want to be on the approved list, to buy the latest supercar or whatever, you're invited to a track demo. If you can't manage to extract 75% of it's potential, you can't have one! So there!
I'd prefer to see manufacturers just open the order book for a set period time. Anyone who orders one and pays the deposit during that time can have one. Would also be nice for the manufacturer to require a minimum holding period, of say a year.
Another possibility would be for the factory to ban authorised dealers from selling for overs any car less than a year old, even on behalf of a customer.
jamies30 said:
flemke said:
Andy is right.
The purpose of investing and trading is to make money. Everyone, from widow to day trader, who buys a share does so for that one reason.
The purpose of a car is to be driven. It is possible to make money by speculating in cars, but that is not why they exist.
Your other example of FX is slightly different from shares. You're right that a currency (or a commodity) has a practical day-to-day purpose.
Makes sense. Investing in a commodity with no interest in the commodity per se and with the sole intention of reselling it at a profit is normal behavior, any upstanding member of the community would do that. Unless the commodity is a car.The purpose of investing and trading is to make money. Everyone, from widow to day trader, who buys a share does so for that one reason.
The purpose of a car is to be driven. It is possible to make money by speculating in cars, but that is not why they exist.
Your other example of FX is slightly different from shares. You're right that a currency (or a commodity) has a practical day-to-day purpose.
The cars we are talking about are in scarce supply. It's not like a commodity where, if you miss your market, you can still get in at 0.1% higher.
If a car were trading in an efficient, liquid market, do you think that flippers would go anywhere near it? NFW.
That is the point: the only time that flippers and spivs get involved is when they can make money at essentially zero risk.
If someone goes out and buys wheat futures, for example, he is taking a genuine risk that the market will go against him.
mikey k said:
robinessex said:
Brings back a statement I made once before. If you want to be on the approved list, to buy the latest supercar or whatever, you're invited to a track demo. If you can't manage to extract 75% of it's potential, you can't have one! So there!
I love that idea!flemke said:
mikey k said:
robinessex said:
Brings back a statement I made once before. If you want to be on the approved list, to buy the latest supercar or whatever, you're invited to a track demo. If you can't manage to extract 75% of it's potential, you can't have one! So there!
I love that idea!SpeckledJim said:
Davey S2 said:
robinessex said:
Brings back a statement I made once before. If you want to be on the approved list, to buy the latest supercar or whatever, you're invited to a track demo. If you can't manage to extract 75% of it's potential, you can't have one! So there!
I'd prefer to see manufacturers just open the order book for a set period time. Anyone who orders one and pays the deposit during that time can have one. e.g Porsche reveal full spec and prices for a car then say order book opens on January 1st for one month then it closes.
Davey S2 said:
SpeckledJim said:
Davey S2 said:
robinessex said:
Brings back a statement I made once before. If you want to be on the approved list, to buy the latest supercar or whatever, you're invited to a track demo. If you can't manage to extract 75% of it's potential, you can't have one! So there!
I'd prefer to see manufacturers just open the order book for a set period time. Anyone who orders one and pays the deposit during that time can have one. e.g Porsche reveal full spec and prices for a car then say order book opens on January 1st for one month then it closes.
- Whatever unique bits are on the car can't be tooled or engineered for a specific production run.
- There's no feeling of exclusivity around the whole thing.
- Customers who'll only have the money in 6 weeks can't have one and hate you because your deadline looks totally arbitrary, whereas a limited edition 'makes sense'.
- Huge effort in dealer preparations and training required for a small hit
- No time to try to sell more if required.
edd11ee1 said:
Hi Flemke,
A couple of questions if I may..
Do you/ have you always had a clean driving licence? From what you say you save a lot of your 'spirited' driving for when you're on the continent but one would imagine with the cars that you own it would be very easy to, and very difficult to exercise the restraint needed not to, hit speeds that would see many penalty points appear if one were to be caught. Apologies if this has been asked before, although I can't recall reading your answer.
Also, I seem to remember a very long time ago you said something along the lines of 'one of the things of most value in my home is a few bicycles', would you care to share what exactly you have? Do you have anything that was specifically made for you?
Eddie
Eddie,A couple of questions if I may..
Do you/ have you always had a clean driving licence? From what you say you save a lot of your 'spirited' driving for when you're on the continent but one would imagine with the cars that you own it would be very easy to, and very difficult to exercise the restraint needed not to, hit speeds that would see many penalty points appear if one were to be caught. Apologies if this has been asked before, although I can't recall reading your answer.
Also, I seem to remember a very long time ago you said something along the lines of 'one of the things of most value in my home is a few bicycles', would you care to share what exactly you have? Do you have anything that was specifically made for you?
Eddie
During this millennium I have been prosecuted for speeding once. I was driving on a deserted 3-lane road in Scotland on a Sunday night - of course perfectly appropriate circumstances for a hidden Scottish Police speed trap. The Police justified the speed trap because, they said, this was an area where there was a history of deer being hit by motor vehicles. I did wonder why, in the previous 50 miles, there had not been one single sign warning of animals.
I have frames made by Merlin, Seven, Mondonico, Merckx, Pegoretti, Colnago, and Jack Bradley. They are usually custom geometry. At the moment they are mostly in storage, so the most valuable thing I have in my house may be the 2 year-old laptop on which I'm typing this.
SpeckledJim said:
flemke said:
Davey S2 said:
robinessex said:
Brings back a statement I made once before. If you want to be on the approved list, to buy the latest supercar or whatever, you're invited to a track demo. If you can't manage to extract 75% of it's potential, you can't have one! So there!
I'd prefer to see manufacturers just open the order book for a set period time. Anyone who orders one and pays the deposit during that time can have one. Would also be nice for the manufacturer to require a minimum holding period, of say a year.
Another possibility would be for the factory to ban authorised dealers from selling for overs any car less than a year old, even on behalf of a customer.
One way around it would be what Ferrari did with the Enzo: IIRC, for the first year the car was leased from them, and the lessee was not entitled to "sublet" the car to a third party.
SpeckledJim said:
Davey S2 said:
SpeckledJim said:
Davey S2 said:
robinessex said:
Brings back a statement I made once before. If you want to be on the approved list, to buy the latest supercar or whatever, you're invited to a track demo. If you can't manage to extract 75% of it's potential, you can't have one! So there!
I'd prefer to see manufacturers just open the order book for a set period time. Anyone who orders one and pays the deposit during that time can have one. e.g Porsche reveal full spec and prices for a car then say order book opens on January 1st for one month then it closes.
- Whatever unique bits are on the car can't be tooled or engineered for a specific production run. WHY NOT? AT THE END OF THE DEPOSIT PHASE YOU KNOW EXACTLY HOW MANY CARS ARE GOING TO BE PRODUCED.
- There's no feeling of exclusivity around the whole thing. SO WHAT? YOU WOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET THE CAR YOU WANT.
- Customers who'll only have the money in 6 weeks can't have one and hate you because your deadline looks totally arbitrary, whereas a limited edition 'makes sense'. SO THE SAME AS EVERYTHING IN LIFE THEN? IF YOU DONT HAVE THE MONEY YOU CANT HAVE ONE.
- Huge effort in dealer preparations and training required for a small hit - NO DIFFERENT TO WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO FOR CARS LIKE THE GT3RS OF WHICH DEALERS ONLY GET A HANDFUL EACH
- No time to try to sell more if required. SAME AS NOW THEN.
flemke said:
SpeckledJim said:
flemke said:
Davey S2 said:
robinessex said:
Brings back a statement I made once before. If you want to be on the approved list, to buy the latest supercar or whatever, you're invited to a track demo. If you can't manage to extract 75% of it's potential, you can't have one! So there!
I'd prefer to see manufacturers just open the order book for a set period time. Anyone who orders one and pays the deposit during that time can have one. Would also be nice for the manufacturer to require a minimum holding period, of say a year.
Another possibility would be for the factory to ban authorised dealers from selling for overs any car less than a year old, even on behalf of a customer.
One way around it would be what Ferrari did with the Enzo: IIRC, for the first year the car was leased from them, and the lessee was not entitled to "sublet" the car to a third party.
Most manufacturer's agreements with their dealers preclude them from selling cars direct to the public. I think dealers and manufacturers are now very carefully held at arms length from each other on pain of big penalties - in Europe at least.
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