Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

[Rich_W]

Flemke.

Sigma? I have a wavering attitude to them. Sometimes brilliant. Sometimes appalling. I tend towards Crawley and (whisper it) Evans warehouse. More stock on site, generally cheaper. (Not connected with either store)

Anyway I'm going OT massively. So back to McLaren talk

Have you seen this thread in the McLaren sub forum?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Thoughts? Seems a bit naughty to me. Not illegal or anything, but unnecessary. Again, not really putting enough emphasis on making customers loyal to them.

[edd11ee1]

flemke said:

Nothing wrong with aesthetic appeal!

I have been tempted by the Cielo, as its built by CK who does everything right, but I couldn't deal with its logo. Also, I should ride some of my existing bikes more before getting another.

Flemke, I love the fact that you sound as passionate about your bikes as you do your cars. If you do decide to bite the bullet and purchase a Cielo then please do let us know what you think of it.

I could chat all day about bikes just as I could about cars but as somebody else has also said, back to the cars

[flemke]

Rich_W said:

Flemke.

Sigma? I have a wavering attitude to them. Sometimes brilliant. Sometimes appalling. I tend towards Crawley and (whisper it) Evans warehouse. More stock on site, generally cheaper. (Not connected with either store)

Anyway I'm going OT massively. So back to McLaren talk

Have you seen this thread in the McLaren sub forum?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Thoughts? Seems a bit naughty to me. Not illegal or anything, but unnecessary. Again, not really putting enough emphasis on making customers loyal to them.

Yes, I have been following that thread.

First, it is fairly clear that whatever happened had nothing to do with the McLaren factory or McLaren Automotive. The only parties involved were the car seller, the poster who had wanted to buy the seller's car, and a McLaren dealer.

It is obvious that the poster was looking to buy the car at a price so low that the dealer could afford to pay the seller a higher price, mark it up, and even then (expect to) sell it on to someone else. That is to say, the seller would have got a very low price from the poster.

Another factor must have been that, all things being equal, a seller would rather sell to a dealer than to a private buyer. Selling to a dealer reduces the risk that comes with waiting for the payment from a private buyer to clear irrevocably.

Any time that you are close to a deal on something that you really want, but you put down the phone before actually striking that deal, you run the risk that the deal won't be there a minute later. That's just the way that it works.

Some people on that thread called what next happened "insider trading", which this most certainly was not. The issue with insider trading is not the theoretical loss or opportunity cost suffered by a buyer left empty-handed. After all, one can never be entirely certain that a would-be buyer would have gone ahead and consummated the mooted purchase.

Rather, the issue with actual insider trading is the opportunity cost suffered by the seller, who sold without knowing all the facts.

That being so, one might argue that, if anything, it was the poster who came close to insider trading, in that he was looking to buy a car at a price that was below the true market value. I myself would not go that far, but I would say that the dealer was farther away from engaging in insider trading than the poster had been.

The poster then goes on to say that the seller contacted him and offered the car at a higher price (again, in the context that a dealer bid is normally worth more than a private bid of the same face value). The poster declined, either because he did not have the opportunity to verify the car's history or because he was not willing to raise his bid - it's not clear which. In either case, he did have a second chance but turned it down.

Although I cannot condone what the dealer did, it does appear that the poster was trying to take advantage of the seller and, although the seller put himself in that position, the seller would have been disadvantaged if the poster had bought at the mooted price.

I think that the seller had a relationship with the dealer in question. If so, it is easier to see why the dealer might have felt some kind of obligation to say, "You know, £XYZ is a very low price for your car. Are you committed to selling it at that price to that chap?" Then the seller might have said, "Oh really, what would you pay me for it?" and so on. If the bid was entirely unsolicited, that would make it different, but IMO only marginally so, not fundamentally so.

One can also argue that the seller might have given the poster a bit more time to make his decision after having received the dealer's bid.

Each of the three parties could have conducted himself better.

As I say, however, this whole incident appeared to have nothing whatever to do with McLaren Automotive. The thread's title is misleading.

[Ali2202]

Buyer's Market then.

Dealer had the skinny on the car and chose to not share it and get in the ring himself instead. If I ran a McL dealership I'd probably do the same. It ain't about a car. It's just about a commodity. Houses same.....unless we're all charitable foundations these days?

Sorry for the Guy that didn't get a 12C but life has a way of working......

[chriskay]

flemke said:

shares are almost infinitely fungible.

Thanks, flemke, for adding a new word to my vocabulary, although I think I may have difficulty finding a use for it.

[LongLiveTazio]

I like the OT vignettes in this thread. As a non-cyclist I was surprised to enjoy the bicycle exhibits when I last visited Coventry's motor museum.

[droopsnoot]

Rich_W said:

Have you seen this thread in the McLaren sub forum?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Thoughts? Seems a bit naughty to me. Not illegal or anything, but unnecessary. Again, not really putting enough emphasis on making customers loyal to them.

While I haven't read any more than the first page of that thread, it's a very similar situation to one I found myself in a few years ago, albeit on a smaller scale financially. Went to look at a car that was advertised in the local Auto Trader, looked OK, phoned a nationwide specialist in the vehicle as the owner mentioned he'd had them do work on it, asked them about specific stuff to look for as well as their opinion on it last time it was with them. Specialist was also active in the owners club and had offered to provide advice. Foolishly mentioned which edition of the Auto Trader it was in. Phoned seller back a day later to find that said specialist had travelled up from their base and bought the car. I won't say what kind of car it was, as it would make it clear (to anyone who knows the cars) who the specialist was.

Not a new story, unfortunately.

[buckle88]

It would seem the 'carbon series' P1's have started getting into owners hands.

Flemke with regard to selling the P1, are you going through a dealer or just sell it back to McLaren?

Thanks.

[flemke]

buckle88 said:

It would seem the 'carbon series' P1's have started getting into owners hands.

Flemke with regard to selling the P1, are you going through a dealer or just sell it back to McLaren?

Thanks.

I had thought that these cars were finished some time ago, but I couldn't swear to that.

If by "dealer" you mean authorised McLaren dealer, then no.

McLaren themselves don't buy cars, but they will broker them, as they have done for nearly 20 years with F1s. When I get around to it, I would use them as my first choice, as they have a long list of people who tried unsuccessfully to buy P1s during production. I know McLaren (Special Operations) well and I trust them.
I'm not opposed to doing something through an after-market "exotic cars" dealer, but I would have no compelling reason to work with one rather than another.

[DannyScene]

buckle88 said:

It would seem the 'carbon series' P1's have started getting into owners hands.

Flemke with regard to selling the P1, are you going through a dealer or just sell it back to McLaren?

Thanks.

wow, that looks incredible finished like that

[Tenebrae]

Found on another forum: http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-p1-f1/39...



Thoughts? I would hate to jump to conclusions (there is litle in the way of explanation in the linked thread) but if done at the factory it kind of puts Ferrari welds in perspective... :> Flemke, have you seen the inside of your clam?

[Sway]

Overspray is a very different issue to pigeon st welds...

[Tenebrae]

Sway said:

Overspray is a very different issue to pigeon st welds...

True, but as you say yourself, still an issue.

[Rich_W]

Article says it's not the overspray that's the issue.

The car went back to McLaren for rattles and they found the assembly people had used the wrong fixings on the rear spoiler area. Given how fastidious McLaren are generally I'm amazed this was allowed to happen. Surely there's a set process for assembly of all the parts of the car and what bolts, washers, spacers, nuts etc etc to use. And assuming there is. What was the person who decided to do their own thing that day thinking?

[LankyLegoHead]

The things I could say about the P1 Bodywork would probably cost me far too much st in my career to bother. But the problems do not surprise me. Although, I believe McLaren assemble and spray it so that would be their fault...

[thatsprettyshady]

what are we looking at though? have a lot of trim/compoments been removed? if so im sure i could find worse overspray on a equivalent Porsche/BMW/Ferrari if i took the engine out.

[EricE]

thatsprettyshady said:

what are we looking at though? have a lot of trim/compoments been removed? if so im sure i could find worse overspray on a equivalent Porsche/BMW/Ferrari if i took the engine out.

I can guarantee you that you wouldn't find anything like that on a 918 or Carrera GT.

[Tenebrae]

Rich_W said:

Article says it's not the overspray that's the issue. The car went back to McLaren for rattles and they found the assembly people had used the wrong fixings on the rear spoiler area.

Yeah, that too. Thanks for bringing it up.

thatsprettyshady said:

what are we looking at though? have a lot of trim/compoments been removed? if so im sure i could find worse overspray on a equivalent Porsche/BMW/Ferrari if i took the engine out.

That's accually a good point.

[Rich_W]

EricE said:

thatsprettyshady said:

what are we looking at though? have a lot of trim/compoments been removed? if so im sure i could find worse overspray on a equivalent Porsche/BMW/Ferrari if i took the engine out.

I can guarantee you that you wouldn't find anything like that on a 918 or Carrera GT.

I've seen a few high end cars in various states of disassembly. And like Eric, you just won't find it on the German or even British high end manufacturered stuff. Can't speak for the Italians.

[epom]

Why on earth worry about overpsray on a part of the car 99% of people will never see. If looking for reasons to complain about something you will always find one.