Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)
Discussion
stevesingo said:
Change of wheel?
Why, brake cooling/clearance?
I went from the standard 17" wheels to 19" in order to accommodate what I believe are the right modern tyres for the car. The change also enabled me to fit better brakes.Why, brake cooling/clearance?
No-one anywhere had ever made 19" wheels to fit the F1's bespoke stub axles, drive pegs, etc, so I had to have the wheels made from scratch.
Originally we had a set of wheels made up which were supposed to replicate the F1's standard road wheels. What the guy sent to me were somewhat different in style from the originals, although they were very strong and very light. They were always meant as, sort of, development wheels whilst I got the rest of the package together.
Despite their virtues, those wheels had one shortcoming. The way the rim was designed, it was impossible to fit a metal valve stem. Only standard rubber stems would work.
On most cars in most circumstances, that would not be a problem. Above 200 mph, however, it is possible that the centrifugal force would deform the base of the rubber stem enough to cause it to leak. Not what you really want at 200+.
In addition to wanting a wheel that looked somewhat different from the development wheels, I needed a wheel that would accept a metal valve stem. Hence the need for other wheels.
I wanted the new wheels to reflect actual wheels used on the F1s by the factory. That left me with 3 choices:
- Standard road car (which since being used on F1 has appeared in several variations on different BMWs),
- The hideous multi-multi-multi-spoke jobs that they used on the racing cars in 1997, and which a couple of blind people have had the factory retro-fit to their road cars, or
- The OZ "Crono" 5-spoke design that was used on the '95 and '96 GTRs, the LMs, and which some people have had put on road cars when they adopted the high downforce kit.
Of the 3, I preferred the Crono. OZ never made them in the right size for my car, so I had to have these made up from scratch. The finished articles do have metal valve stems.
Also, Fwiw, the Crono wheel takes a slightly smaller diameter wheel nut than the standard road car wheel does, so I had to have new ones of those made up as well.
Cheers.
Is it just the angle the pics are taken at that makes the sidewall profile look quite different front to rear, or is there quite a large difference?
Seem to recall previous mention that the tyres are intended for a modern-ish Ferrari, if memory serves?
Wheels look very purposeful - and don't look too big for the car, which is quite an achievement given the way wheel sizes have gone in the last couple of decades
Seem to recall previous mention that the tyres are intended for a modern-ish Ferrari, if memory serves?
Wheels look very purposeful - and don't look too big for the car, which is quite an achievement given the way wheel sizes have gone in the last couple of decades
flemke said:
I went from the standard 17" wheels to 19" in order to accommodate what I believe are the right modern tyres for the car. The change also enabled me to fit better brakes.
No-one anywhere had ever made 19" wheels to fit the F1's bespoke stub axles, drive pegs, etc, so I had to have the wheels made from scratch.
Originally we had a set of wheels made up which were supposed to replicate the F1's standard road wheels. What the guy sent to me were somewhat different in style from the originals, although they were very strong and very light. They were always meant as, sort of, development wheels whilst I got the rest of the package together.
Despite their virtues, those wheels had one shortcoming. The way the rim was designed, it was impossible to fit a metal valve stem. Only standard rubber stems would work.
On most cars in most circumstances, that would not be a problem. Above 200 mph, however, it is possible that the centrifugal force would deform the base of the rubber stem enough to cause it to leak. Not what you really want at 200+.
In addition to wanting a wheel that looked somewhat different from the development wheels, I needed a wheel that would accept a metal valve stem. Hence the need for other wheels.
I wanted the new wheels to reflect actual wheels used on the F1s by the factory. That left me with 3 choices:
- Standard road car (which since being used on F1 has appeared in several variations on different BMWs),
- The hideous multi-multi-multi-spoke jobs that they used on the racing cars in 1997, and which a couple of blind people have had the factory retro-fit to their road cars, or
- The OZ "Crono" 5-spoke design that was used on the '95 and '96 GTRs, the LMs, and which some people have had put on road cars when they adopted the high downforce kit.
Of the 3, I preferred the Crono. OZ never made them in the right size for my car, so I had to have these made up from scratch. The finished articles do have metal valve stems.
Also, Fwiw, the Crono wheel takes a slightly smaller diameter wheel nut than the standard road car wheel does, so I had to have new ones of those made up as well.
Cheers.
No, cheers to you.No-one anywhere had ever made 19" wheels to fit the F1's bespoke stub axles, drive pegs, etc, so I had to have the wheels made from scratch.
Originally we had a set of wheels made up which were supposed to replicate the F1's standard road wheels. What the guy sent to me were somewhat different in style from the originals, although they were very strong and very light. They were always meant as, sort of, development wheels whilst I got the rest of the package together.
Despite their virtues, those wheels had one shortcoming. The way the rim was designed, it was impossible to fit a metal valve stem. Only standard rubber stems would work.
On most cars in most circumstances, that would not be a problem. Above 200 mph, however, it is possible that the centrifugal force would deform the base of the rubber stem enough to cause it to leak. Not what you really want at 200+.
In addition to wanting a wheel that looked somewhat different from the development wheels, I needed a wheel that would accept a metal valve stem. Hence the need for other wheels.
I wanted the new wheels to reflect actual wheels used on the F1s by the factory. That left me with 3 choices:
- Standard road car (which since being used on F1 has appeared in several variations on different BMWs),
- The hideous multi-multi-multi-spoke jobs that they used on the racing cars in 1997, and which a couple of blind people have had the factory retro-fit to their road cars, or
- The OZ "Crono" 5-spoke design that was used on the '95 and '96 GTRs, the LMs, and which some people have had put on road cars when they adopted the high downforce kit.
Of the 3, I preferred the Crono. OZ never made them in the right size for my car, so I had to have these made up from scratch. The finished articles do have metal valve stems.
Also, Fwiw, the Crono wheel takes a slightly smaller diameter wheel nut than the standard road car wheel does, so I had to have new ones of those made up as well.
Cheers.
Pity, I quite liked the larger original-a-likes.
Could a different design of valve be designed/manufactured?
dudleybloke said:
Any timescale on the furry dice yet F?
Its all well and good poncing about with sundry items like brakes and wheels but you realy should prioritize the essentials.
I totally agree with you, but I need to get the furry dice right. Its all well and good poncing about with sundry items like brakes and wheels but you realy should prioritize the essentials.
They tell me that it's going to take another few generations to breed the chinchillas with the spots in the right places. I gather that they're having a problem with the side with 6: you know, getting the 3 dots in each row lined up correctly.
Adrian E said:
Is it just the angle the pics are taken at that makes the sidewall profile look quite different front to rear, or is there quite a large difference?
Seem to recall previous mention that the tyres are intended for a modern-ish Ferrari, if memory serves?
Wheels look very purposeful - and don't look too big for the car, which is quite an achievement given the way wheel sizes have gone in the last couple of decades
Fronts are 235/35/19, rears are 345/35/19. Difference in sidewall height therefore approx 35 mm. Seem to recall previous mention that the tyres are intended for a modern-ish Ferrari, if memory serves?
Wheels look very purposeful - and don't look too big for the car, which is quite an achievement given the way wheel sizes have gone in the last couple of decades
The fronts are "N1", designed for rear-engined Porsches, which happen to have almost exactly the same front corner weights as the F1 does.
The rears are the tyres designed for Ferrari Enzo.
I am perhaps one of the few people who like the look of tall sidewalls, but unfortunately in a sports car they can present handling problems.
I think I recall a loooooong while back reading, when you were having one set of wheels or another made up (I think while running the gold wheels, waiting for the reworked original design) you mentioned that the guy doing them had access to some fancy new finishing process that meant that the new wheels would be a level off blackness or mattness, I can't recall which, that had never been seen before. Did that come about and is that the finish on these 5-spokes? Or maybe I just dreamt the whole thing...
Don't suppose it has anything to do with Vantablack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vantablack)? Now there'd be an idea. Good for screwing with the 'black wheels just look like a void or empty space' brigade.
Don't suppose it has anything to do with Vantablack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vantablack)? Now there'd be an idea. Good for screwing with the 'black wheels just look like a void or empty space' brigade.
Edited by Uriel on Thursday 25th September 07:30
stevesingo said:
flemke said:
I went from the standard 17" wheels to 19" in order to accommodate what I believe are the right modern tyres for the car. The change also enabled me to fit better brakes.
No-one anywhere had ever made 19" wheels to fit the F1's bespoke stub axles, drive pegs, etc, so I had to have the wheels made from scratch.
Originally we had a set of wheels made up which were supposed to replicate the F1's standard road wheels. What the guy sent to me were somewhat different in style from the originals, although they were very strong and very light. They were always meant as, sort of, development wheels whilst I got the rest of the package together.
Despite their virtues, those wheels had one shortcoming. The way the rim was designed, it was impossible to fit a metal valve stem. Only standard rubber stems would work.
On most cars in most circumstances, that would not be a problem. Above 200 mph, however, it is possible that the centrifugal force would deform the base of the rubber stem enough to cause it to leak. Not what you really want at 200+.
In addition to wanting a wheel that looked somewhat different from the development wheels, I needed a wheel that would accept a metal valve stem. Hence the need for other wheels.
I wanted the new wheels to reflect actual wheels used on the F1s by the factory. That left me with 3 choices:
- Standard road car (which since being used on F1 has appeared in several variations on different BMWs),
- The hideous multi-multi-multi-spoke jobs that they used on the racing cars in 1997, and which a couple of blind people have had the factory retro-fit to their road cars, or
- The OZ "Crono" 5-spoke design that was used on the '95 and '96 GTRs, the LMs, and which some people have had put on road cars when they adopted the high downforce kit.
Of the 3, I preferred the Crono. OZ never made them in the right size for my car, so I had to have these made up from scratch. The finished articles do have metal valve stems.
Also, Fwiw, the Crono wheel takes a slightly smaller diameter wheel nut than the standard road car wheel does, so I had to have new ones of those made up as well.
Cheers.
No, cheers to you.No-one anywhere had ever made 19" wheels to fit the F1's bespoke stub axles, drive pegs, etc, so I had to have the wheels made from scratch.
Originally we had a set of wheels made up which were supposed to replicate the F1's standard road wheels. What the guy sent to me were somewhat different in style from the originals, although they were very strong and very light. They were always meant as, sort of, development wheels whilst I got the rest of the package together.
Despite their virtues, those wheels had one shortcoming. The way the rim was designed, it was impossible to fit a metal valve stem. Only standard rubber stems would work.
On most cars in most circumstances, that would not be a problem. Above 200 mph, however, it is possible that the centrifugal force would deform the base of the rubber stem enough to cause it to leak. Not what you really want at 200+.
In addition to wanting a wheel that looked somewhat different from the development wheels, I needed a wheel that would accept a metal valve stem. Hence the need for other wheels.
I wanted the new wheels to reflect actual wheels used on the F1s by the factory. That left me with 3 choices:
- Standard road car (which since being used on F1 has appeared in several variations on different BMWs),
- The hideous multi-multi-multi-spoke jobs that they used on the racing cars in 1997, and which a couple of blind people have had the factory retro-fit to their road cars, or
- The OZ "Crono" 5-spoke design that was used on the '95 and '96 GTRs, the LMs, and which some people have had put on road cars when they adopted the high downforce kit.
Of the 3, I preferred the Crono. OZ never made them in the right size for my car, so I had to have these made up from scratch. The finished articles do have metal valve stems.
Also, Fwiw, the Crono wheel takes a slightly smaller diameter wheel nut than the standard road car wheel does, so I had to have new ones of those made up as well.
Cheers.
Pity, I quite liked the larger original-a-likes.
Could a different design of valve be designed/manufactured?
In the image you have included, the valve is slightly below "9:00". It sits in the groove that is necessary in order to have a 3-piece wheel.
The problem is that that groove is narrow whilst the base of the groove is curved. A metal valve stem fits with a nut, which of course has to be rotated whilst it's being tightened. You could have a washer that is curved on one side to fit between the curved groove and the flat underside of the nut, but then you need to be able to get a tool in there to tighten the nut.
There might be a way to do that, making up a tool, but I thought that having to make my own valve stem system was getting a bit crazy, especially as the wheel design itself was not exactly what I had wanted.
Uriel said:
I think I recall a loooooong while back reading, when you were having one set of wheels or another made up (I think while running the gold wheels, while waiting for the reworked original design) you mentioned that the guy doing them had access to some fancy new finishing process that meant that the new wheels would be a level off blackness or mattness, I can't recall which, that had never been seen before. Did that come about and is that the finish on these 5-spokes? Or maybe I just dreamt the whole thing...
Don't suppose it has anything to do with Vantablack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vantablack)? Now there'd be an idea. Good for screwing with the 'black wheels just look like a void or empty space' brigade.
Yes, the finish on these black wheels is that material to which I was referring. I'm told that its primary applications are US military, for minimum deflection of radar signals.Don't suppose it has anything to do with Vantablack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vantablack)? Now there'd be an idea. Good for screwing with the 'black wheels just look like a void or empty space' brigade.
It is my impression that the Vantablack is not yet available for commercial use. In any case, I'm not sure that I would feel the need to use it. Having spent about 8 years getting the wheels right, I don't want them to be completely invisible!
Uriel said:
I think I recall a loooooong while back reading, when you were having one set of wheels or another made up (I think while running the gold wheels, waiting for the reworked original design) you mentioned that the guy doing them had access to some fancy new finishing process that meant that the new wheels would be a level off blackness or mattness, I can't recall which, that had never been seen before. Did that come about and is that the finish on these 5-spokes? Or maybe I just dreamt the whole thing...
Don't suppose it has anything to do with Vantablack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vantablack)? Now there'd be an idea. Good for screwing with the 'black wheels just look like a void or empty space' brigade.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/father-ted/vide...Don't suppose it has anything to do with Vantablack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vantablack)? Now there'd be an idea. Good for screwing with the 'black wheels just look like a void or empty space' brigade.
Edited by Uriel on Thursday 25th September 07:30
Monty Python said:
Flemke, you could have turned this into a book - you've clearly taken your F1 far beyond when it left the factory. Have you documented all the changes that you've made to the car, and is it better now than when you first bought it?
Well.....It brakes better than before, the suspension is more predictable and much less prone to waywardness at the rear, it is more enjoyable to drive, and it looks better, so I would say that it's better.
E65Ross said:
What is the ride quality like on the F1 on it's original wheels and tyres compared to your newer set up, and what is that like compared to a more modern sports car, such as a porsche 911.
Bet you're looking forward to getting your P1...it looks like an absolutely amazing machine.
In the original set-up, the ride is surprisingly comfortable.Bet you're looking forward to getting your P1...it looks like an absolutely amazing machine.
The ride in my car now is fairly stiff, considerably stiffer than standard. The springs F&R are both about 10% stiffer than standard, so most of the lowering of ride quality is a result of taking a lot of compliance out of the tyres.
In relation to ride quality of a modern 911, there is quite a difference between, say, a Carrera 4 and a GT3. In terms of ride quality, my car is rather like a GT3.
My concern with the P1 is that, in the context of one's inability even to touch the sides of its potentialities on UK public roads, it may not be all that satisfying to drive on those public roads. Perhaps I shall be pleasantly surprised.
flemke said:
E65Ross said:
chriskay said:
Good to see the tyres designed for the Enzo being used on a quality car.
As much as I prefer the McLaren F1.... The Enzo is still a quality car! 
Engine isn't bad, is it?
flemke said:
E65Ross said:
What is the ride quality like on the F1 on it's original wheels and tyres compared to your newer set up, and what is that like compared to a more modern sports car, such as a porsche 911.
Bet you're looking forward to getting your P1...it looks like an absolutely amazing machine.
In the original set-up, the ride is surprisingly comfortable.Bet you're looking forward to getting your P1...it looks like an absolutely amazing machine.
The ride in my car now is fairly stiff, considerably stiffer than standard. The springs F&R are both about 10% stiffer than standard, so most of the lowering of ride quality is a result of taking a lot of compliance out of the tyres.
In relation to ride quality of a modern 911, there is quite a difference between, say, a Carrera 4 and a GT3. In terms of ride quality, my car is rather like a GT3.
My concern with the P1 is that, in the context of one's inability even to touch the sides of its potentialities on UK public roads, it may not be all that satisfying to drive on those public roads. Perhaps I shall be pleasantly surprised.
Interesting thoughts on the P1. Could you not argue in many ways that even the straight line performance of the F1 is too much to be regularly exploited? Doesn't stop you wanting more though, right?
I've never been in anything remotely quick in comparison to your F1....th fastest is probably a current BMW M6....which is about 8 dead to 100mph and even that felt quite bonkers! I'd love to experience something like that!
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