Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

[shirt]

i'd be happy to be proven wrong but i doubt many cars such as the vulcan will see much track time at all. its funny that the gulf is becoming more of a market for these cars as well. they're trinkets and nothing more.

those rear lights are awesome though.

[ferrisbueller]

robinessex said:

flemke said:

robinessex said:

Well, if you decide to flog the P1, you could always give these people a call, and order a brand new original GT40. Fabulous !!

http://gelscoemotorsport.com/?p=402

http://gelscoemotorsport.com/?page_id=419

Dribble, dribble .................!!!

I like this quote:

Gelscoe said:

Every single part of the Car is made within the UK. The Chassis is constructed by our own team within Derbyshire and has never been anywhere near South Africa!

Not so sure about those brakes!:



Mmm, maybe, although I decided against a Kirkham "Cobra" because of the hassle involved in running an older-style car. This would be similar.

A friend has got me somewhat interested in the new Ford GT. I appreciate that it is not quite the same thing as a GT40, but it is in the ball park.

The FORD GT40. Right. Zero miles one here:-

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...

This place in Australia make RH conversion. http://www.crossovercarconversions.com.au/vehicle-...

I believe they only did 6, all gone.

But.

The Ford GT's, when they came to the UK, were handled by Roush from the states. http://www.roushperformance.com They had a factory just around the corner to me. The factory has been taken over by Mountune. http://www.mountune.com They now handle/look after all the Ford GT40s in the UK. So, if you decide to buy the Zero miles GT, you might be able to get Crossovercars to make up another RH drive kit, and get Mountune to do the actual conversion. Sorted !!!

Hope that helps you !

Erm, are these the people you're referring to?

http://gt101.co.uk/

[flemke]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Largely in line with the 'superfluous' stance on this track hyper robbery type car, interesting question on the future values too without the provenance of the F1s for tracks.

Do you think in the example of the P1 (because that's the only car in this batch that has such close stablemate status between the Road and Track versions) the GTR or Road car will become the 'one to own' and appreciate greater?
Also a weird scenario is that by en large all of the GTRs are (or at least we're) owned by the Road car owners too.
Which would they off load first do we think ?? Or keep 'a pair' for better values going forward ??

Good question.

On the one hand, there is almost always a premium attached to rarity. There are 390 P1s and 50(ish) P1 GTRs. That will help P1 GTR values relative to those of P1s.

Separate from scarcity value is the matter of what one might call material value. The P1 base price was about £865k; P1 GTR base price was about £1.95m. Of that £1.1m premium, I believe that the great majority of it related not to the physical car itself but rather to the ancillaries: exclusive track day events, maintenance and consumables for those track days such as brakes and tyres, driving instruction, fitness coaching, access to McLaren simulator - that sort of thing.
After the initial period (of I think 3 years but I can't recall as I was not interested in the car in the first place), those prepaid ancillaries are used up and, going forward, the car owner will have to start paying for them as he requires them.
Therefore in year 4, if you then buy a P1 GTR, you'll be getting meaningfully less than what the original owner got. That has to affect the future values.

There are enough stupid, immature rich people around that there will continue to be some demand for the P1 GTRs, Ferrari FXXs, and the like. That seems quite likely. It is however hard for me to predict the extent to which their irrational behaviour will be sustained or amplified.

What has happened to the values of the Enzo FXX and 599XX?

[ferrisbueller]

flemke said:

What has happened to the values of the Enzo FXX and 599XX?

Weren't they a packaged deal? Did you come out of it with a car at the end (like a jumped up Caterham Academy) or do they keep the car? AIUI, all of these project cars live with the manufacturer. I hope I'm wrong and they're out in the wild.

[flemke]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Interesting take on the 'extras' the 1.1m brings you- - it hadn't crossed my mind. I can only assume that they are not 'transferable' either from owner to owner.
Looking how only P1 owners were allowed (vetted?) for the GTR and programme, Mcl could control who partook in the GTR 'programme'

That saying, I believe AndyZ has bought a GTR second hand, do we / PH know of any or many others that have changed hands ? And are they north or south of the 1.95 if the bulk of that number is made up of essentially a really really expensive gym membership

The extras are transferable, but they have a lifespan. With any GTR came (I think it was) 3 years' worth of consumables, track day support (at the GTR programme events, not outside events), the driving instruction, etc. It's similar to a new car warranty. It lasts for the first (say) 3 years of the car's life, and after that the owner, whether he be the original owner or a new owner, is on his own.

As far as controlling the ownership, AFAIK the only controlling that the factory did was saying that they would not sell you a GTR unless you already owned a P1. At least one guy bought a P1 in the secondary market only because that entitled him to buy a GTR. Once the factory agreed to sell him the GTR, I believe that he sold the P1, which the factory did not mind because that was within the rules - at the time of his order he had been a P1 owner.
Those rules applied to whether the factory would build a new P1 GTR for you. I don't believe the factory have any say over whether someone buys a GTR in the secondary market.
Although the factory enforced that rule, I think they would admit that it was an arbitrary and meaningless rule. The point of it was only to try to make the GTR seem more exclusive: "We'll sell one only to people who are members of our little "club".

The GTR picture has changed some now that most of the GTRs are road-legal, and indeed McLaren will tell you that the main reason they were able to sell more than twice as many GTRs as they had planned for was that there arose this way to make them road-legal.

Although the P1 GTR makes no sense whatever as a road car except to the Upper Sloane Street/Dubai types, to them the value of the ancillaries is going to be less than it will be to owners who intend to take advantage of the ancillaries, and therefore to them the drop in value after 3 years will be less.

[robinessex]

6 Aventador LP 750-4 Superveloces on PH at premium prices. What a surprise !!!

[flemke]

robinessex said:

6 Aventador LP 750-4 Superveloces on PH at premium prices. What a surprise !!!

And on mobile.de another 17 being flipped. A rare bargain!

[LongLiveTazio]

ferrisbueller said:

Weren't they a packaged deal? Did you come out of it with a car at the end (like a jumped up Caterham Academy) or do they keep the car? AIUI, all of these project cars live with the manufacturer. I hope I'm wrong and they're out in the wild.

Only for as long as the 'racing programme' lasted, AFAIK, i.e. the 599XX superceded the FXX allowing them to be freely kept/sold. My understanding anyway.

Might have recounted this on PH before, but I was mooching about the pits at Silverstone years ago when a complement of FXX's were there for Ferrari's racing days. The owner of one of them was having a go at the mechanic: not about how his car had been prepared but that they'd sprayed his wife's helmet the wrong colour. I'm no driving God but shall we say his lapping wasn't exactly quick...

I didn't get it. At all.

[Chebble]

https://twitter.com/mclarenauto/status/72601927939...

Interesting... I wonder how much it will go for? I must admit I did a double take when I saw it, then I noticed the mileage - definitely not Flemke's.

2800 miles is criminal. Hopefully whoever buys it sees sense and actually uses it!

[-Michael-]

Chebble said:

https://twitter.com/mclarenauto/status/72601927939...

Interesting... I wonder how much it will go for? I must admit I did a double take when I saw it, then I noticed the mileage - definitely not Flemke's.

2800 miles is criminal. Hopefully whoever buys it sees sense and actually uses it!

2800 miles isnt a lot BUT are they really that easy to drive around? I wouldnt drive one on the roads if I had one.. I'dd be too scared somebody would hit it from taking a pic or something

[SHutchinson]

Chebble said:

https://twitter.com/mclarenauto/status/72601927939...

Interesting... I wonder how much it will go for? I must admit I did a double take when I saw it, then I noticed the mileage - definitely not Flemke's.

2800 miles is criminal. Hopefully whoever buys it sees sense and actually uses it!

A minute or two spent on Google shows that car having a number of transformations in its life. Shame no one just drove it more really.

[Krikkit]

-Michael- said:

Chebble said:

https://twitter.com/mclarenauto/status/72601927939...

Interesting... I wonder how much it will go for? I must admit I did a double take when I saw it, then I noticed the mileage - definitely not Flemke's.

2800 miles is criminal. Hopefully whoever buys it sees sense and actually uses it!

2800 miles isnt a lot BUT are they really that easy to drive around? I wouldnt drive one on the roads if I had one.. I'dd be too scared somebody would hit it from taking a pic or something

It was designed to be very usable. I'd be nervous driving it through central London, but a trip to the Highlands? Down to Le Mans? Perfect.

[-Michael-]

Krikkit said:

It was designed to be very usable. I'd be nervous driving it through central London, but a trip to the Highlands? Down to Le Mans? Perfect.

Central London is where I've seen my own McLaren F1, it just so happened to be a F1 GTR!

Credits to the owner for driving it around

[Chebble]

Krikkit said:

-Michael- said:

Chebble said:

https://twitter.com/mclarenauto/status/72601927939...

Interesting... I wonder how much it will go for? I must admit I did a double take when I saw it, then I noticed the mileage - definitely not Flemke's.

2800 miles is criminal. Hopefully whoever buys it sees sense and actually uses it!

2800 miles isnt a lot BUT are they really that easy to drive around? I wouldnt drive one on the roads if I had one.. I'dd be too scared somebody would hit it from taking a pic or something

It was designed to be very usable. I'd be nervous driving it through central London, but a trip to the Highlands? Down to Le Mans? Perfect.

Exactly - probably not ideal for city driving, but if I could afford one I'd definitely use it regularly. Besides, Gordon Murray, Flemke, and Rowan Atkinson have all put tens of thousands of miles on theirs.

[Chebble]

-Michael- said:

Krikkit said:

It was designed to be very usable. I'd be nervous driving it through central London, but a trip to the Highlands? Down to Le Mans? Perfect.

Central London is where I've seen my own McLaren F1, it just so happened to be a F1 GTR!

Credits to the owner for driving it around

Great spot and photo - my only sighting of an F1 happened to be XP5, although it was at the then dealership on Park Lane. I was fortunate to see it even then - the car was only there for a couple of months before the dealership closed for good - it's now a Harrods real estate broker I think.

I was 14 at the time, so that puts it at about 2003. Never seen one moving though!

Eta: it was XP5, not XP4.

Edited by Chebble on Friday 29th April 21:07

[epom]

Chebble said:

https://twitter.com/mclarenauto/status/72601927939...

Interesting... I wonder how much it will go for? I must admit I did a double take when I saw it, then I noticed the mileage - definitely not Flemke's.

2800 miles is criminal. Hopefully whoever buys it sees sense and actually uses it!

How much is the Euromillions tonight ?? Enough ?

[-Michael-]

Chebble said:

Great spot and photo - my only sighting of an F1 happened to be XP4, although it was at the then dealership on Park Lane. I was fortunate to see it even then - the car was only there for a couple of months before the dealership closed for good - it's now a Harrods real estate broker I think.

I was 14 at the time, so that puts it at about 2003. Never seen one moving though!

It was a special moment to see it driving even if it was only a couple of MPH

I have also seen the "Big Mac" F1 GTR but that was at Silverstone last year and didnt go on track as it had been raining the day before

[MikeT66]

ferrisbueller said:

Erm, are these the people you're referring to?

http://gt101.co.uk/

Wow - there's some car porn there. Didn't know about these guys - something to read and dream about. Thanks for posting, ferrisbueller!

[waremark]

Flemke's

https://youtu.be/s5DxRZOB_2o

[Church of Noise]

waremark said:

Flemke's

https://youtu.be/s5DxRZOB_2o

The engine sounds great through that exhaust!

However, it seems that the car is quite sensitive to camber changes on the road?
(edited to add:I assume this is a part of the compromise that was chosen regarding the suspension setup)