Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)
Discussion
mclwanB said:
I have to admit that the P1 LM (converted road going P1 GTR) does look epic.
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/goodwood-fos-2016/...
Agree a standard P1 or, particularly an F1, would be my choice.
I'll buy a version when they RH drive it !!!http://www.topgear.com/car-news/goodwood-fos-2016/...
Agree a standard P1 or, particularly an F1, would be my choice.
Sway said:
A few F1s there in various variants.
Picked up the minichamps Oeno Clinic 1:18 model. Made me exceptionally happy.
Flemke, a quick question - have you had the car corner weighted, and if so how does the weight distribution pan out when fluid and human filled?
Hope life is treating you well, and that you're finding time to play with petrol powered toys.
I'm okay, thanks. Sad about the results of the referendum, but as long as ignorance and prejudice exist, these things can happen.Picked up the minichamps Oeno Clinic 1:18 model. Made me exceptionally happy.
Flemke, a quick question - have you had the car corner weighted, and if so how does the weight distribution pan out when fluid and human filled?
Hope life is treating you well, and that you're finding time to play with petrol powered toys.
Anyhow, F/R weight distribution in my car with all normal and necessary bits, but without people, is 41/59. The addition of humanity to the cockpit is going to shift that forward a bit.
swimd said:
I heard there's a another variant of the P1 other than the GTR and LM in the pipeline. Presumably "very limited" but I have no other details.
Do any well informed members on here have insight on this?
If so, it would not be from McLaren themselves. It's always possible that Lanzante or another after-market outfit would do their own "edition" of pre-existing cars.Do any well informed members on here have insight on this?
Moved from the LT thread:
Flemke, you clearly feel let down by the actions of McLaren regarding the narrative and subsequent production of the P1 and LT. I can't help but think that most of this is based on the perception that McLaren is not, and will never be, like Ferrari; that they would be straight forward and not play games.
This is the world that you have been fortunate (along with a limited few) to occupy for the last decade (perhaps!). McLaren essentially has been a boutique car company which would have been able to cater to every need, like family. I imagine there were a limited number of staff with very personal transparent connections to each customer.
With the expansion of the customer base - from perhaps a hundred (with the F1), then low thousands (with the SLR - how much did that affect the customer base at the factory??), to many thousands (with the 12c, P1, 650s, 675LT, 570s, etc) - the dynamic of the company would change significantly. I can only imagine that some members of the tight family would feel strain at every point as it grew. Values and goals will change with the change of CEO and turnaround of staff.
Flemke, could it be that the company has in its development, rightly or wrongly, diverged in regards to your expectations? Is this as much a source of your frustration as the extra cars being produced? Could you comment on how you have seen the ownership process change from F1-only, through the introduction of the SLR, to modern McLaren Automotive?
Flemke, you clearly feel let down by the actions of McLaren regarding the narrative and subsequent production of the P1 and LT. I can't help but think that most of this is based on the perception that McLaren is not, and will never be, like Ferrari; that they would be straight forward and not play games.
This is the world that you have been fortunate (along with a limited few) to occupy for the last decade (perhaps!). McLaren essentially has been a boutique car company which would have been able to cater to every need, like family. I imagine there were a limited number of staff with very personal transparent connections to each customer.
With the expansion of the customer base - from perhaps a hundred (with the F1), then low thousands (with the SLR - how much did that affect the customer base at the factory??), to many thousands (with the 12c, P1, 650s, 675LT, 570s, etc) - the dynamic of the company would change significantly. I can only imagine that some members of the tight family would feel strain at every point as it grew. Values and goals will change with the change of CEO and turnaround of staff.
Flemke, could it be that the company has in its development, rightly or wrongly, diverged in regards to your expectations? Is this as much a source of your frustration as the extra cars being produced? Could you comment on how you have seen the ownership process change from F1-only, through the introduction of the SLR, to modern McLaren Automotive?
cc8s said:
Moved from the LT thread:
Flemke, you clearly feel let down by the actions of McLaren regarding the narrative and subsequent production of the P1 and LT. I can't help but think that most of this is based on the perception that McLaren is not, and will never be, like Ferrari; that they would be straight forward and not play games.
This is the world that you have been fortunate (along with a limited few) to occupy for the last decade (perhaps!). McLaren essentially has been a boutique car company which would have been able to cater to every need, like family. I imagine there were a limited number of staff with very personal transparent connections to each customer.
With the expansion of the customer base - from perhaps a hundred (with the F1), then low thousands (with the SLR - how much did that affect the customer base at the factory??), to many thousands (with the 12c, P1, 650s, 675LT, 570s, etc) - the dynamic of the company would change significantly. I can only imagine that some members of the tight family would feel strain at every point as it grew. Values and goals will change with the change of CEO and turnaround of staff.
Flemke, could it be that the company has in its development, rightly or wrongly, diverged in regards to your expectations? Is this as much a source of your frustration as the extra cars being produced? Could you comment on how you have seen the ownership process change from F1-only, through the introduction of the SLR, to modern McLaren Automotive?
When I first got involved in 2001, the F1 servicing business was small: two technicians, one manager, one receptionist, and a fifth person who had additional responsibilities at McLaren away from the F1 road car business. The operation, called McLaren Cars Limited, was very personalised, but their small numbers meant that they did not have much flexibility. They also had little space; for several years the F1 service/support business operated out of a workshop that could hold no more than two cars at a time. Overall, F1 service activity was so quiet that (I was told by the person who claimed to have been made the offer) Ron D. supposedly offered to sell the UK/"official factory" F1 service and maintenance business, plus the entire inventory of tools and parts, for a million quid.Flemke, you clearly feel let down by the actions of McLaren regarding the narrative and subsequent production of the P1 and LT. I can't help but think that most of this is based on the perception that McLaren is not, and will never be, like Ferrari; that they would be straight forward and not play games.
This is the world that you have been fortunate (along with a limited few) to occupy for the last decade (perhaps!). McLaren essentially has been a boutique car company which would have been able to cater to every need, like family. I imagine there were a limited number of staff with very personal transparent connections to each customer.
With the expansion of the customer base - from perhaps a hundred (with the F1), then low thousands (with the SLR - how much did that affect the customer base at the factory??), to many thousands (with the 12c, P1, 650s, 675LT, 570s, etc) - the dynamic of the company would change significantly. I can only imagine that some members of the tight family would feel strain at every point as it grew. Values and goals will change with the change of CEO and turnaround of staff.
Flemke, could it be that the company has in its development, rightly or wrongly, diverged in regards to your expectations? Is this as much a source of your frustration as the extra cars being produced? Could you comment on how you have seen the ownership process change from F1-only, through the introduction of the SLR, to modern McLaren Automotive?
As you suggest, things began to loosen up slightly when the SLR happened, but only slightly. Gordon separated himself from that project very early on, and because of the wide divergence between that car and the F1 (SLR build numbers, cost, design-by-committee, servicing done by M-B main dealers, lack of specialness of the car itself), the SLR had only a marginal presence at McLaren Cars Limited. After a few years of being fairly remote from the SLR business, McLaren Cars came up with a "McLaren Edition" (or something like that), which was an SLR with a bunch of lairy carbon bodywork. I'm not sure how many of those they sold as new; I'd guess a couple of dozen.
That SLR modification activity evolved into a steady business of after-market customisation of SLRs. Within what is now called McLaren Special Operations (comprising all F1 road car work, all customisation of modern McLarens, and the SLR customisation business), they have I think 2-3 bays reserved for working on SLRs, and the wait to get an SLR customised is now about two years.
At any one time, MSO tends to have 2-3 F1s in the shop, having anything from a normal service to a ground-up rebuild (in the case of the white car with red stripe that got rolled into an Italian ditch two years ago) done to them.
The overwhelming majority of vehicles being worked on at MSO these days are modern McLarens, and most of them have come straight from the assembly line for MSO personalisation prior to delivery. At any one time they have, I'd guess, about ten or twelve modern McLarens there, plus the SLRs and F1s.
The service that they give to F1 customers is still excellent. It is noticeable that the demand for MSO work on modern McLarens has grown so fast that the folks at MSO are often being pulled in different directions simultaneously. That is not really a criticism. I value highly the relationships that I have with the guys at MSO.
For reasons that I have explained before, I believe that the top decision-makers at McLaren Automotive have badly let down their customers. I absolutely differentiate those people and their decisions from the service I get at MSO, which is superb.
In fact, I told a very senior guy at McLaren Automotive that my loyalty was not to McLaren Automotive, but rather to McLaren Cars Limited (the maker of the F1 and the ancestor of what is now MSO). He understood the point that I was making, and took offence (which was my intention).
I have said to them that the reason that I have bought modern McLarens was, as much as anything else, because of the loyalty that I feel towards the guys at MSO.
I don't mind that McLaren have expanded; indeed I am glad that they did. There is always the risk with a low-volume car-maker that one day it will cease to operate - and then what does one do about servicing and spares? For the foreseeable future, that risk has been eliminated. I have a lot of respect in general for what the McLaren Group have achieved, starting of course with the late racing driver whose name is on the door.
My objections, which are strong, to the modern McLaren customer "experience" are exclusively related to broken promises and misleading statements from McLaren Automotive about the P1 and 675. With the recent announcement of another 25 675LT spiders, in carbon bodywork, it seems that MA have every intention of continuing to break commitments and mislead customers. I am all in favour of capitalism, but not at the expense of integrity.
Great post - I was hoping you could provide some insight.I did wonder the impact of the SLR on McLaren as my impression was that the SLR was more of a Mercedes baby with McLaren sprinkled on it (from the point of view of 'ownership' of the car and subsequent servicing, etc). I always saw the 'McLaren Edition' as their way of bringing it back under the McLaren wing. It is therefore not surprising to hear that the McLaren Edition drew cars back to McLaren for work. Incidentally I was hearing of a chap that owns multiple SLR that has just had serious customisation done on one of his cars. I love that there is a solid fanbase out there for them.
Whenever I hear of a family-like atmosphere and McLaren it has more and more drifted to mean MSO. I still feel the dealerships that I have visited, the general outward look of the brand, and the company are steps ahead of much of the competition.
With these changes in mind, and taking into account the expansion of the P1 and LT range, do you think that in future expectations will be different and therefore disappointment would be alleviated to customers such as yourself? Would you buy future models to have them customised to your liking through MSO, even if the production numbers may enlarge?
A slight deviation:
Although the pre-production cars of each model are a way to sell more cars, over and above stated numbers, I tend towards the thought that their celebration of these cars' status (which I subscribe to) is less well received by most, causing consternation.
There is also a spotlight on the production numbers of cars that is not seen previously, mostly to do with social media, as far as I can tell. I've written elsewhere about the fact that there is a large community of Ferrari VIN-collectors that are very well aware of the over-production of certain 'limited model' Ferraris. Yet it is rarely mentioned in more mainstream forum activity. They seem to operate with a wisdom (that I am trying to adopt!) of enjoying being in the know without 'outing' the brands that produces much of their obsession.
Contrast this to the smaller community of McLaren VIN-collectors who have occasionally 'outed' the (perhaps marginal) over production of limited cars though pre-production cars. There was one thread on a McLaren forum that caused proper annoyance and real-world anger regarding some 'staff cars'. This turned out to be based on the best part of nothing. These type of discussions are not reflected in the Ferrari world, to my knowledge.
I wonder if this results in a higher standard for McLaren than perhaps warranted.
(This of course does not address your issue with P1 GTRs and 675LT Spider, both of which are slightly beyond marginally expanding production).
Anyway, I am essentially musing outloud.
-Michael- said:
anniesdad said:
Flemke,
You mentioned you might consider buying an LT Spider if only to flip it for a profit to donate to a deserving charity. Did you act upon this? I sincerely hope that you did.
Steve
If I remember correctly in the end they wouldn't give him one You mentioned you might consider buying an LT Spider if only to flip it for a profit to donate to a deserving charity. Did you act upon this? I sincerely hope that you did.
Steve
cc8s said:
Great post - I was hoping you could provide some insight.I did wonder the impact of the SLR on McLaren as my impression was that the SLR was more of a Mercedes baby with McLaren sprinkled on it (from the point of view of 'ownership' of the car and subsequent servicing, etc). I always saw the 'McLaren Edition' as their way of bringing it back under the McLaren wing. It is therefore not surprising to hear that the McLaren Edition drew cars back to McLaren for work. Incidentally I was hearing of a chap that owns multiple SLR that has just had serious customisation done on one of his cars. I love that there is a solid fanbase out there for them.
Whenever I hear of a family-like atmosphere and McLaren it has more and more drifted to mean MSO. I still feel the dealerships that I have visited, the general outward look of the brand, and the company are steps ahead of much of the competition.
With these changes in mind, and taking into account the expansion of the P1 and LT range, do you think that in future expectations will be different and therefore disappointment would be alleviated to customers such as yourself? Would you buy future models to have them customised to your liking through MSO, even if the production numbers may enlarge?
A slight deviation:
Although the pre-production cars of each model are a way to sell more cars, over and above stated numbers, I tend towards the thought that their celebration of these cars' status (which I subscribe to) is less well received by most, causing consternation.
There is also a spotlight on the production numbers of cars that is not seen previously, mostly to do with social media, as far as I can tell. I've written elsewhere about the fact that there is a large community of Ferrari VIN-collectors that are very well aware of the over-production of certain 'limited model' Ferraris. Yet it is rarely mentioned in more mainstream forum activity. They seem to operate with a wisdom (that I am trying to adopt!) of enjoying being in the know without 'outing' the brands that produces much of their obsession.
Contrast this to the smaller community of McLaren VIN-collectors who have occasionally 'outed' the (perhaps marginal) over production of limited cars though pre-production cars. There was one thread on a McLaren forum that caused proper annoyance and real-world anger regarding some 'staff cars'. This turned out to be based on the best part of nothing. These type of discussions are not reflected in the Ferrari world, to my knowledge.
I wonder if this results in a higher standard for McLaren than perhaps warranted.
(This of course does not address your issue with P1 GTRs and 675LT Spider, both of which are slightly beyond marginally expanding production).
Anyway, I am essentially musing outloud.
Also, please bear in mind that a big reason why many of us were attracted to McLaren is that we expected and hoped that they would act in a more ethical way than Ferrari tend to do. When McLaren start to act very much like Ferrari, a primary reason for preferring them to the Italians is negated.
Antony Moxey said:
-Michael- said:
anniesdad said:
Flemke,
You mentioned you might consider buying an LT Spider if only to flip it for a profit to donate to a deserving charity. Did you act upon this? I sincerely hope that you did.
Steve
If I remember correctly in the end they wouldn't give him one You mentioned you might consider buying an LT Spider if only to flip it for a profit to donate to a deserving charity. Did you act upon this? I sincerely hope that you did.
Steve
I wanted to act in an above-board way with McLaren, so I wrote to them saying that I would like to order a spider, but that, if I did, I would immediately put it on the market and give whatever profit to charity.
They did not reply, and I did not get a spider.
waremark said:
Much prefer that to his later videos, needs to remember to let the car speak rather than feel the need to talk over it trivially Helps that it's the most sorted version of imo the world's most epic car!
So the preference would be to scrap cars instead that customers out there actually want to own?
Mclaren are now a thriving British business meeting customers increased demands, who clearly are willing to pay a premium to get into one of their products when demand outstrips supply.
As a result said company then increases the supply slightly, not such a big deal. Anyone that's peeved can simply not purchase one of their products in the future and shoot themselves in the foot by missing out on some fantastic, still very limited vehicles.
They are not the bespoke little club you clearly enjoyed in the past, they now sell to the great unwashed as well, what a terrible thing to do, making a range of quality cars that people actually want to own!
Your plan was to bump a potentially genuine customer off a waiting list who then would have to pay more for the same car on the secondary market? all in the name of charity.
You could of course donate the profit you make from the sale of any of your Mclarens instead, that would be a much more noble gesture, and maybe something you planned to do anyway?
Mclaren are now a thriving British business meeting customers increased demands, who clearly are willing to pay a premium to get into one of their products when demand outstrips supply.
As a result said company then increases the supply slightly, not such a big deal. Anyone that's peeved can simply not purchase one of their products in the future and shoot themselves in the foot by missing out on some fantastic, still very limited vehicles.
They are not the bespoke little club you clearly enjoyed in the past, they now sell to the great unwashed as well, what a terrible thing to do, making a range of quality cars that people actually want to own!
Your plan was to bump a potentially genuine customer off a waiting list who then would have to pay more for the same car on the secondary market? all in the name of charity.
You could of course donate the profit you make from the sale of any of your Mclarens instead, that would be a much more noble gesture, and maybe something you planned to do anyway?
Edited by PAUL500 on Saturday 9th July 11:29
PAUL500 said:
So the preference would be to scrap cars instead that customers out there actually want to own?
Not necessarily.McLaren should have done one of two things with the prototypes.
A) Sold them "as-is", with the actual chassis miles remaining on the clock instead of reset to "0", the original, partly worn drive-trains in place, et al. That way they would have been selling them genuinely as used prototypes, rather than as effectively all-new cars retaining merely the original tubs.
B) If they decided that they had to rebuild them into new cars, the quantity of prototypes should have been included within the overall limit of the build-run (i.e., 360 normal P1s plus 15 rebuilt P1 ex-prototypes; something similar for 675LTs).
PAUL500 said:
Mclaren are now a thriving British business meeting customers increased demands, who clearly are willing to pay a premium to get into one of their products when demand outstrips supply.
As a result said company then increases the supply slightly, not such a big deal. Anyone that's peeved can simply not purchase one of their products in the future and shoot themselves in the foot by missing out on some fantastic, still very limited vehicles.
I can assure you that some people will live with the risk of damaging their own limbs by not purchasing McLaren products in future. To present that as a remedy is the same as fobbing off the victims of a fraud by telling them that they should learn from the experience and not trust the fraudster next time, whilst defending the fraudster because others happened to benefit from his crimes.As a result said company then increases the supply slightly, not such a big deal. Anyone that's peeved can simply not purchase one of their products in the future and shoot themselves in the foot by missing out on some fantastic, still very limited vehicles.
PAUL500 said:
They are not the bespoke little club you clearly enjoyed in the past, they now sell to the great unwashed as well, what a terrible thing to do, making a range of quality cars that people actually want to own!
Your statement shows that either (a), you have read virtually nothing of this thread, including the previous page which was the point of departure of this particular topic, and therefore you are unaware of the fact that I welcomed McLaren's making all their new cars, or (b), you did read the previous page but you are a presumptuous ass. I trust that the former was the case.
For the avoidance of doubt, ever since the business plan of McLaren Automotive was announced several years ago, I have been happy that McLaren have become a volume car maker. It makes McLaren a stronger company, it should in time assist their racing efforts, and it is a testimony to the great Bruce McLaren. I am glad that Ron Dennis and his colleagues had the courage and the energy to do it. As far as I am concerned, the effects on F1 owners of this business venture have been and will remain largely positive.
PAUL500 said:
Your plan was to bump a potentially genuine customer off a waiting list who then would have to pay more for the same car on the secondary market? all in the name of charity.
"All in the name of charity" - yes, indeed.Buying what I have the right legitimately to buy, being open with the seller about my intentions, reselling it at a profit but then giving away any and all gains to worthy causes. What a bad idea, eh?
PAUL500 said:
You could of course donate the profit you make from the sale of any of your Mclarens instead, that would be a much more noble gesture, and maybe something you planned to do anyway?
Maybe something that I have done many times....Flemke,
Responding to the thousand questions in a polite and informed manner is one of your hallmarks. However I think the time is approaching to wind down the comments around Mclaren's ethics. I'm sure they're aware of them and the threads about it, certainly we on PH are now. And thanks for bringing it to our attention.
But what for you, you're clearly a car lover and show loyalty to brands. Can you forgive Mclaren, rebuild the relationship and continue to enjoy future products they may have? I'll wager you enjoy talking to the engineers and designers hey.
Will you transfer you allegiances to another brand?
Or wander the world of fast cars with eclectic tastes, a Supercar Nomad so to speak?
Whatever, I look forward to reading the future threads.
Responding to the thousand questions in a polite and informed manner is one of your hallmarks. However I think the time is approaching to wind down the comments around Mclaren's ethics. I'm sure they're aware of them and the threads about it, certainly we on PH are now. And thanks for bringing it to our attention.
But what for you, you're clearly a car lover and show loyalty to brands. Can you forgive Mclaren, rebuild the relationship and continue to enjoy future products they may have? I'll wager you enjoy talking to the engineers and designers hey.
Will you transfer you allegiances to another brand?
Or wander the world of fast cars with eclectic tastes, a Supercar Nomad so to speak?
Whatever, I look forward to reading the future threads.
robm3 said:
Flemke,
Responding to the thousand questions in a polite and informed manner is one of your hallmarks. However I think the time is approaching to wind down the comments around Mclaren's ethics. I'm sure they're aware of them and the threads about it, certainly we on PH are now. And thanks for bringing it to our attention.
But what for you, you're clearly a car lover and show loyalty to brands. Can you forgive Mclaren, rebuild the relationship and continue to enjoy future products they may have? I'll wager you enjoy talking to the engineers and designers hey.
Will you transfer you allegiances to another brand?
Or wander the world of fast cars with eclectic tastes, a Supercar Nomad so to speak?
Whatever, I look forward to reading the future threads.
I'm not sure whether, by addressing the first part of your post, I would be guilty of repeating the behaviour to which you refer. Responding to the thousand questions in a polite and informed manner is one of your hallmarks. However I think the time is approaching to wind down the comments around Mclaren's ethics. I'm sure they're aware of them and the threads about it, certainly we on PH are now. And thanks for bringing it to our attention.
But what for you, you're clearly a car lover and show loyalty to brands. Can you forgive Mclaren, rebuild the relationship and continue to enjoy future products they may have? I'll wager you enjoy talking to the engineers and designers hey.
Will you transfer you allegiances to another brand?
Or wander the world of fast cars with eclectic tastes, a Supercar Nomad so to speak?
Whatever, I look forward to reading the future threads.
In fairness, I did not raise this issue anew. cc8s asked me some questions, including ones specific to this issue. I tried to reply to all his questions.
Following on to that exchange, Paul challenged some of what I had said or he mistakenly thought that I believed. What really ticked me off were his comments that, supposedly, I regretted no longer having a "bespoke little club (that I'd) clearly enjoyed in the past" and that, allegedly, I think of most of McLaren's newer customers as being "the great unwashed". Anyone who knows me knows that I despise those sorts of attitudes. Paul had no evidence on which he was entitled to base his remarks. I don't really appreciate it when someone who knows not the facts nonetheless presumes untruths about me (or about anyone, for that matter) and then asserts them publicly.
Regarding this issue going forward, if no one asks me a question, I shall have nothing to answer and, if no one tries to defend the indefensible, I shall have nothing to challenge. I'd be happy with that, and I think you would be as well.
On to the more interesting territory - brand loyalty and choosing one's affiliations - that's difficult.
First, to be honest with you, I am not enthusiastic about the direction in which driving and car development seem to be going: increasing emphasis on turbocharging, hybrids and EVs, growing extent of driver aids, greater speed and power for their own sake whilst achieving pretty much nothing of value. This is before one gets to the matter of worsening traffic density, more politically-correct traffic regulation and the shoddy condition of most roads.
For me the ideal modern "aspirational" car would weigh less than 1,000kg, have a NA 4.0 V12 producing 450bhp, would be beautiful to look at and be beautifully made, especially underneath where there is scope for CNC'd uprights, bell cranks, suspension arms and all that sort of mechanical sculpture. I would pay more for that car than I would for a 900 bhp, 1500kg hybrid P1 with IPAS and DRS and "Race Mode" and other pretentious nonsense that I don't want and shall never need. But my ideal car ain't happening, is it?
As a matter of principle I won't buy a Ferrari, wouldn't accept one as a gift. I know that they have made some cracking cars, but those cars are not sufficient to counterbalance the many dishonourable actions of Ferrari management. The 98% of people who work at the factory or for the racing team are probably great folks, but the management are not.
I like Porsche for many reasons, but lately they have not done themselves proud. I have some private information about how they recently cut corners quite cynically on a couple of their most expensive models. That's on the technical side.
On the customer relationship side, how they handled the 911R situation was shameful and, more broadly, they show every sign of copying Ferrari's contemptible game of intentionally restricting supply in order to create artificial shortages and price bubbles in the hope that that will enhance the sales of their high-volume models. Legal, but unworthy of a decent organisation.
Lambo's are mostly for teenagers; K'egg is too small a company; Pagani I respect but the interiors of his cars suggest what a pre-war Parisian brothel might have looked like. Bugatti - love the build quality, but otherwise a product aimed at the Chinese, Middle Eastern and Monaco moron markets is not going to appeal to me. Aston-Red Bull project - pointless, IMO. Singer 911 - overpriced, too precious, and they made a mistake by retaining the square rear bumper of the 964. New TVR...?
Interesting that you mention "Supercar Nomad", as the Ariel Nomad is one of the coolest cars of the last 15 years. Just wish I had the time to make use of one.
Calling someone you don't know a presumptuous ass because they question your views is hardly polite.
With regards giving to charity, by bumping a genuine buyer off the waiting list then making another pay over the odds for said car you have not actually provided a penny to any charity, it would have personally cost you nothing. The secondary buyer was the one donating the money.
We can all "claim" to do lots for charity. I will take your answer as a no you will not be passing on the profit you have made from your Mclarens, even though you clearly dislike people who trouser profits from buying and selling such cars, a case of do as I say not as I do it appears.
With regards giving to charity, by bumping a genuine buyer off the waiting list then making another pay over the odds for said car you have not actually provided a penny to any charity, it would have personally cost you nothing. The secondary buyer was the one donating the money.
We can all "claim" to do lots for charity. I will take your answer as a no you will not be passing on the profit you have made from your Mclarens, even though you clearly dislike people who trouser profits from buying and selling such cars, a case of do as I say not as I do it appears.
Edited by PAUL500 on Sunday 10th July 13:43
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