Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)
Discussion
cc8s said:
VladD said:
flemke said:
he is a man of his word, but you have to read the small print.
Thanks for those thoughts. I don't follow F1 very closely but the whole Spygate incident was interesting to read about recently.
flemke said:
Best summary of "Spygate" was said to me privately by the guy who is probably the single most respected person in Formula One: "What Max did to Ron was unforgivable".
I could never work for Ron as he would drive me potty but when the News of the World stitched up Max it was the only time I bought that rag of a paper and celebrated something that paper did.flemke said:
As for a new vibe and the "Winter Ball", I appreciate that some people might disagree with me, but I consider such events to be utter BS. Automotive CEO Mike Flewitt has made a number of decisions that were somewhat-to-very harmful to loyal customers, for which he has no legitimate defence. If that sort of high-handed, manipulative, cynical, Ferrari-like behaviour is to be typical of the "new vibe", I would rather not be part of it.
In that sense, I prefer Ron, warts and all. If Ron were to give a long-standing customer the shaft, I believe that he, like Bernie, would at least be man enough to admit that he was doing it, unlike the new regime who just make up mealy-mouth excuses or pretend that it's not happening.
You've mentioned this before. Yet, you still buy their products In that sense, I prefer Ron, warts and all. If Ron were to give a long-standing customer the shaft, I believe that he, like Bernie, would at least be man enough to admit that he was doing it, unlike the new regime who just make up mealy-mouth excuses or pretend that it's not happening.
I get the F1. I even kinda understand the purchase of P1. Though I gather you potential will be removing that from Flemke towers in due course.
But the LT? After you knowing that their new business strategy means they'll be another even more limited, higher power, lighter weight version soon?
Rich_W said:
flemke said:
As for a new vibe and the "Winter Ball", I appreciate that some people might disagree with me, but I consider such events to be utter BS. Automotive CEO Mike Flewitt has made a number of decisions that were somewhat-to-very harmful to loyal customers, for which he has no legitimate defence. If that sort of high-handed, manipulative, cynical, Ferrari-like behaviour is to be typical of the "new vibe", I would rather not be part of it.
In that sense, I prefer Ron, warts and all. If Ron were to give a long-standing customer the shaft, I believe that he, like Bernie, would at least be man enough to admit that he was doing it, unlike the new regime who just make up mealy-mouth excuses or pretend that it's not happening.
You've mentioned this before. Yet, you still buy their products In that sense, I prefer Ron, warts and all. If Ron were to give a long-standing customer the shaft, I believe that he, like Bernie, would at least be man enough to admit that he was doing it, unlike the new regime who just make up mealy-mouth excuses or pretend that it's not happening.
I get the F1. I even kinda understand the purchase of P1. Though I gather you potential will be removing that from Flemke towers in due course.
But the LT? After you knowing that their new business strategy means they'll be another even more limited, higher power, lighter weight version soon?
Higher power - sure, but everything is going in that juvenile direction.
Lighter weight - that very much remains to be seen.
Beyond those things is the concept of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.
In any case, I ordered the LT almost two years ago, before certain facets of their "new business strategy" were known.
I *think* I may have spotted an f1 today, went past me on a corner and was only a few seconds so not completely sure.
Was Black, location was Battersea Square and the reg was something like r33 ogf (remembered it wrong as nothing showing under that reg). Small child in the seat on the right.
Was Black, location was Battersea Square and the reg was something like r33 ogf (remembered it wrong as nothing showing under that reg). Small child in the seat on the right.
hyphen said:
I *think* I may have spotted an f1 today, went past me on a corner and was only a few seconds so not completely sure.
Was Black, location was Battersea Square and the reg was something like r33 ogf (remembered it wrong as nothing showing under that reg). Small child in the seat on the right.
http://robbreport.com/automobiles/last-mclaren-f1-...Was Black, location was Battersea Square and the reg was something like r33 ogf (remembered it wrong as nothing showing under that reg). Small child in the seat on the right.
Apparently last road car
Peleton or Hurst will be able to say how much it went for I'm sure
Edited by Rich_W on Saturday 10th December 17:19
Rich_W said:
http://robbreport.com/automobiles/last-mclaren-f1-...
Apparently last road car
Peleton or Hurst will be able to say how much it went for I'm sure
That is awesome work. Apparently last road car
Peleton or Hurst will be able to say how much it went for I'm sure
Edited by Rich_W on Saturday 10th December 17:19
I really don't like black cars with black wheels. I really need to get my car's wheel colour changed.
The grey NZ car with its tan interior would probably be the most mouth-watering colour combo I've seen for a F1. I also really like flemke's Alfa dark blue but not the black wheels (although i understand the need for black for the trompe d'oeil).
I also appreciate being able to read the opinions on Ron and McLaren too. Thanks for posting.
flemke said:
It did not help that, with Mercedes funding, McLaren had won only 3 (out of a possible 14) WDCs and officially only 1 (in justice, 2, including the 2007 title) WCCs. True, part of that disappointing performance was caused by Ferrari's brilliant but FIA-assisted Schumacher-led team, and then Renault's moment in the sun, but that was what Mercedes were looking at. All they really wanted was to have their name on the door, to which Ron would not agree.
Hi Flemke,Found this topic when Vol 4 was current. Went back and read through from Vol 1 while commuting as its pretty rare to find anyone to take the time to answer so many questions about their car, rarer still when its something like an F1. Thanks for the time you have put in, for the most part its a good and interesting read.
Everything I ever wanted to know, and some things I didn't even know I wanted to know about your car have already been asked and answered.
Going off topic slightly, your comment above made me curious; know you have no love for Ferrari but wondered what your opinion was of Michael Schumacher?
Apologies if asked before - if so, I must have missed that page!
braddo said:
Rich_W said:
http://robbreport.com/automobiles/last-mclaren-f1-...
Apparently last road car
Peleton or Hurst will be able to say how much it went for I'm sure
That is awesome work. Apparently last road car
Peleton or Hurst will be able to say how much it went for I'm sure
Edited by Rich_W on Saturday 10th December 17:19
I really don't like black cars with black wheels. I really need to get my car's wheel colour changed.
The grey NZ car with its tan interior would probably be the most mouth-watering colour combo I've seen for a F1. I also really like flemke's Alfa dark blue but not the black wheels (although i understand the need for black for the trompe d'oeil).
I also appreciate being able to read the opinions on Ron and McLaren too. Thanks for posting.
OzzyR1 said:
flemke said:
It did not help that, with Mercedes funding, McLaren had won only 3 (out of a possible 14) WDCs and officially only 1 (in justice, 2, including the 2007 title) WCCs. True, part of that disappointing performance was caused by Ferrari's brilliant but FIA-assisted Schumacher-led team, and then Renault's moment in the sun, but that was what Mercedes were looking at. All they really wanted was to have their name on the door, to which Ron would not agree.
Hi Flemke,Found this topic when Vol 4 was current. Went back and read through from Vol 1 while commuting as its pretty rare to find anyone to take the time to answer so many questions about their car, rarer still when its something like an F1. Thanks for the time you have put in, for the most part its a good and interesting read.
Everything I ever wanted to know, and some things I didn't even know I wanted to know about your car have already been asked and answered.
Going off topic slightly, your comment above made me curious; know you have no love for Ferrari but wondered what your opinion was of Michael Schumacher?
Apologies if asked before - if so, I must have missed that page!
One is disinclined to be critical of a person who has suffered profound injuries and will never be the same.
As a driver, obviously he was immensely skilled although, AFAIK, he did not possess the ultimate speed of Hakkinen, and perhaps others who never got the chance to be the number one driver in a car capable of winning the title. He did however appear to be above all his contemporaries in his obsession for winning, his ability to motivate his team and to organise it around his own priorities, and his own dedication to those priorities. It is said, for example, that his example inspired drivers of the last 20 years to take their physical fitness seriously, with which Mansell did not bother and which Button later took to an even higher level than Schumacher.
As we all know, the flip side of that was a number of racing actions that were completely OTT, dangerous to other drivers and quite unsporting. Then we had Rascasse. Those incidents are too well known.
Perhaps slightly less well known, regarding Schumacher's competitive selfishness, was what happened after he broke his leg in 1999. Going into the last few races of the year, and with Schumacher no longer in the running, Schumacher's team-mate Eddie Irvine had an unexpected but realistic chance at the title. This would have been Ferrari's first WDC in two decades, something that Schumacher himself had been keen to take.
Ferrari had wanted to get Schumacher back to racing asap, in order to support Irvine's title tilt. Schumacher kept telling them, however, that his leg had not healed sufficiently for him to resume driving. Ferrari accepted this at face value.
During this period of Schumacher's supposed convalescence, with about 2 races to go, Luca di Montezemolo called the Schumacher family residence in order to speak with his injured driver. One of Schumacher's children answered the phone and, when asked by Luca if Dad was there, replied, "I'll have to get him. He's outside playing football". Di Montezemolo was not pleased; Schumacher was instructed to drive the next race, which he did.
That kind of thing is pretty low - deliberately holding back in order to make it more difficult for a team-mate to get the glory that you had sought for yourself but were no longer in a position to achieve. That level of selfishness, and the multiple occasions when he deliberately forced another car off the track, mean to me that he could never be put on the same level as Fangio, Clark, and maybe Prost. (Senna was another whose incredible skill was compromised by his selfishness.)
In his private life, which I think is relevant in the judgment of any person if not any professional, I was impressed when Schumacher donated $10m to help the victims of the 2004 Asian tsunami. (I would be surprised if, despite his wealth, Lewis Hamilton were to do something similar. He seems more likely to spend money on diamond necklaces for his pet bulldogs, but I could be wrong.)
Beyond that, Schumacher appears to have been a good family man. I have heard mixed stories from my German friends with whom he has had contact about how he has treated them: on balance, positive.
Overall, I'd say he was almost but not quite one of the greatest drivers, his numerical achievements vitiated by his poor sportsmanship.
flemke said:
...from my German friends ...
I tend towards similar to you on Michael. Plus obviously I'm a brit so I was always in Damons camp But the quote is something that occurred to me. You've taken the F1 around Europe. Have you ever sensed a different attitude towards the car UK vs Germany vs Italy even. Or is it the universal supercar thing you get where ever you are?
Bonus question how far from the UK have you driven in it? Or do you get it trailered?
flemke said:
Perhaps slightly less well known, regarding Schumacher's competitive selfishness, was what happened after he broke his leg in 1999. Going into the last few races of the year, and with Schumacher no longer in the running, Schumacher's team-mate Eddie Irvine had an unexpected but realistic chance at the title. This would have been Ferrari's first WDC in two decades, something that Schumacher himself had been keen to take.
Ferrari had wanted to get Schumacher back to racing asap, in order to support Irvine's title tilt. Schumacher kept telling them, however, that his leg had not healed sufficiently for him to resume driving. Ferrari accepted this at face value.
During this period of Schumacher's supposed convalescence, with about 2 races to go, Luca di Montezemolo called the Schumacher family residence in order to speak with his injured driver. One of Schumacher's children answered the phone and, when asked by Luca if Dad was there, replied, "I'll have to get him. He's outside playing football". Di Montezemolo was not pleased; Schumacher was instructed to drive the next race, which he did.
That kind of thing is pretty low - deliberately holding back in order to make it more difficult for a team-mate to get the glory that you had sought for yourself but were no longer in a position to achieve.
He wasn't very teamy when he did come back IIRC. McLaren then demonstrated what teamwork is in the decider.Ferrari had wanted to get Schumacher back to racing asap, in order to support Irvine's title tilt. Schumacher kept telling them, however, that his leg had not healed sufficiently for him to resume driving. Ferrari accepted this at face value.
During this period of Schumacher's supposed convalescence, with about 2 races to go, Luca di Montezemolo called the Schumacher family residence in order to speak with his injured driver. One of Schumacher's children answered the phone and, when asked by Luca if Dad was there, replied, "I'll have to get him. He's outside playing football". Di Montezemolo was not pleased; Schumacher was instructed to drive the next race, which he did.
That kind of thing is pretty low - deliberately holding back in order to make it more difficult for a team-mate to get the glory that you had sought for yourself but were no longer in a position to achieve.
Rich_W said:
flemke said:
...from my German friends ...
I tend towards similar to you on Michael. Plus obviously I'm a brit so I was always in Damons camp But the quote is something that occurred to me. You've taken the F1 around Europe. Have you ever sensed a different attitude towards the car UK vs Germany vs Italy even. Or is it the universal supercar thing you get where ever you are?
Bonus question how far from the UK have you driven in it? Or do you get it trailered?
One of my more amusing experiences happened when driving through a small village in France on a quiet morning. The engine would have been running in the 1500-2000 rpm range, but still at that level it makes a distinctive note.
I approached a small house on my left and noticed in its front garden a grey-haired granny hanging up her washing. She would have heard the engine from a distance. Her back was to me but, as I was nearly abreast of her, she turned, looked in my direction, and gave me a thumbs up. That was classy.
Farthest I have driven it from UK? IIRC, that would be either to Frankfurt area or to central France. Most miles in one day, about 600.
ferrisbueller said:
flemke said:
Perhaps slightly less well known, regarding Schumacher's competitive selfishness, was what happened after he broke his leg in 1999. Going into the last few races of the year, and with Schumacher no longer in the running, Schumacher's team-mate Eddie Irvine had an unexpected but realistic chance at the title. This would have been Ferrari's first WDC in two decades, something that Schumacher himself had been keen to take.
Ferrari had wanted to get Schumacher back to racing asap, in order to support Irvine's title tilt. Schumacher kept telling them, however, that his leg had not healed sufficiently for him to resume driving. Ferrari accepted this at face value.
During this period of Schumacher's supposed convalescence, with about 2 races to go, Luca di Montezemolo called the Schumacher family residence in order to speak with his injured driver. One of Schumacher's children answered the phone and, when asked by Luca if Dad was there, replied, "I'll have to get him. He's outside playing football". Di Montezemolo was not pleased; Schumacher was instructed to drive the next race, which he did.
That kind of thing is pretty low - deliberately holding back in order to make it more difficult for a team-mate to get the glory that you had sought for yourself but were no longer in a position to achieve.
He wasn't very teamy when he did come back IIRC. McLaren then demonstrated what teamwork is in the decider.Ferrari had wanted to get Schumacher back to racing asap, in order to support Irvine's title tilt. Schumacher kept telling them, however, that his leg had not healed sufficiently for him to resume driving. Ferrari accepted this at face value.
During this period of Schumacher's supposed convalescence, with about 2 races to go, Luca di Montezemolo called the Schumacher family residence in order to speak with his injured driver. One of Schumacher's children answered the phone and, when asked by Luca if Dad was there, replied, "I'll have to get him. He's outside playing football". Di Montezemolo was not pleased; Schumacher was instructed to drive the next race, which he did.
That kind of thing is pretty low - deliberately holding back in order to make it more difficult for a team-mate to get the glory that you had sought for yourself but were no longer in a position to achieve.
Ali2202 said:
flemke said:
Schumacher is another complicated one........
Ali,McEnroe,Maradona,Woods,Senna,Schumacher. All difficult but with a natural-born brilliance. All flawed, all rightly venerated I tend to think.I'm still waiting to hear of the first human who isn't flawed. I think the question is more a matter of the form and magnitude of the flaws.
Of the people you mention, I'm not sure what you have in mind about Ali. I am unaware of anything he did inside the ring that was disrespectable. Outside the ring, I would say that his actions enhanced his significance, and rightly so.
Unlike the others you mention, McEnroe is perhaps not even amongst the all-time top 10 in his sport. He was very good at hitting the ball, but his incessant whining and tantrums degraded the sport. We don't have to go outside of his sporting behaviour to find fault, but rather the fault was part of his sporting behaviour, and indeed probably contributed to some of his victories. I don't see how one could venerate an athlete who consciously, systematically tainted his professional environment.
Maradona's "hand of God" was contemptible: one of the most blatant, and most consequential, acts of cheating in sports history. I don't however criticise the man for his drug problems.
Tiger Woods was the opposite to Maradona: unless he was literally addicted to shagging almost anything that moved, one has to say that his regrettable personal life was entirely within his control, and it was his choice to make it tawdry. It is difficult to venerate a person who is so disloyal to his family.
Senna and Schumacher were pretty much the same: their selfishness brought them to breaking both the written and the unwritten rules of their sport. Unlike Maradona, when they cheated, they put other people's lives at risk, Schumacher probably more so than Senna.
When someone acts dishonourably, I find it difficult to venerate that person. We might venerate the person's sporting achievements, or the portion of sporting achievements that were not tainted, but that is different from venerating the person.
flemke said:
Of the people you mention, I'm not sure what you have in mind about Ali. I am unaware of anything he did inside the ring that was disrespectable. Outside the ring, I would say that his actions enhanced his significance, and rightly so.
The only thing I can think of was the Ernie Terrell fight where Ali repeatedly taunted him with "What's my name?" after Terrell had called him Clay before the fight on several occasions. Ali also got him in a headlock in the fight and dragged his eye over the top rope. He was also pretty insulting to Joe Frazier which I don't think he deserved at all.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff