Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

[cc8s]

Thanks So essentially a Blu Alfa 'New', really.

That is interesting about the LT. Why would it vary? Or is that too technical even for here?

[Joe911]

flemke said:

At that, three of the cars are in theory the same, but the fourth (LT) is slightly different because the paint process that McLaren used for the LTs was not the same as what they used for the other three.

So they HS was different from the LT but the same as the P1, despite being made after both?

[dom9]

Have we had any thoughts on the new P14 tub pictures that were released this week?

Dihedral doors, integrated roof and weight reduction all sound very interesting.

[flemke]

cc8s said:

Thanks So essentially a Blu Alfa 'New', really.

That is interesting about the LT. Why would it vary? Or is that too technical even for here?

Nothing is too technical for here (or too un-technical for here).

McLaren painted the LTs (both coupe and spider) in their normal production "line". They paint(ed) F1s, P1s and HSs as one-offs, which allows for a more complex process.

[Joe911]

flemke said:

McLaren painted the LTs (both coupe and spider) in their normal production "line". They paint(ed) F1s, P1s and HSs as one-offs, which allows for a more complex process.

So it's the process that is different - not the paint colour, I guess they can use any colour on the production line - but the result is a (very) subtly different colour/effect. Can't say that I noticed - maybe need to take all the cars somewhere to compare and investigate - Scotland maybe.

[Don1]

Mr F, were you not tempted to have the scoop on the LT as well? To 'complete the set' so to speak?

[flemke]

dom9 said:

Have we had any thoughts on the new P14 tub pictures that were released this week?

Dihedral doors, integrated roof and weight reduction all sound very interesting.

I can't tell much from looking at just a tub, although it is good to have a more accommodating door aperture.

Various spy shots and "Autocar Images" of the car have been published, the more recent of which have captured the essence of the actual bodywork. I'd have to say that it doesn't really do it for me. I prefer gracefulness and beauty to meretriciousness and novel but unattractive detailing. Whenever I look at images of the front of the P14, I am reminded of insects.

---

I still think that the best looking modern McLaren is the MP4-12C.

[flemke]

Don1 said:

Mr F, were you not tempted to have the scoop on the LT as well? To 'complete the set' so to speak?

The scoop was available only about halfway through the LT build run. My car was built before then.
The scoop offers no performance advantage; although functional in the sense that it does pipe air into the engine, it is really there for cosmetic reasons.
For me the other issue was that, in contrast to the scoops/snorkels on the F1 and P1, the 650S "Le Mans"/675 LT snorkel was not properly designed. Unlike the continuous curves of the preceding two, the LT version is effectively a trapezoid: flat sides and top joined by tight bends. Whoever designed it was probably the same person who designed the 650S Le Mans wheels: he or she started with a handsome original, tried to emulate it whilst making the new version his/her "own", unfortunately did not know what he or she was doing, and ended up with a mess.

This stuff isn't hard. How they could have screwed up the design is beyond me.

Although the 675LT is a fine car, after McLaren pulled their little stunt with more than doubling the production run, I decided to sell mine. I have not got around to doing that yet, but should probably do so soon. For me, it is not part of a "set".

[flemke]

Joe911 said:

flemke said:

McLaren painted the LTs (both coupe and spider) in their normal production "line". They paint(ed) F1s, P1s and HSs as one-offs, which allows for a more complex process.

So it's the process that is different - not the paint colour, I guess they can use any colour on the production line - but the result is a (very) subtly different colour/effect. Can't say that I noticed - maybe need to take all the cars somewhere to compare and investigate - Scotland maybe.

Yes, but the one-off process allows for more layers of paint, which enables a slightly different effect. The paint on the LT has less depth and complexity.

[epom]

flemke said:

Don1 said:

Mr F, were you not tempted to have the scoop on the LT as well? To 'complete the set' so to speak?

The scoop was available only about halfway through the LT build run. My car was built before then.
The scoop offers no performance advantage; although functional in the sense that it does pipe air into the engine, it is really there for cosmetic reasons.
For me the other issue was that, in contrast to the scoops/snorkels on the F1 and P1, the 650S "Le Mans"/675 LT snorkel was not properly designed. Unlike the continuous curves of the preceding two, the LT version is effectively a trapezoid: flat sides and top joined by tight bends. Whoever designed it was probably the same person who designed the 650S Le Mans wheels: he or she started with a handsome original, tried to emulate it whilst making the new version his/her "own", unfortunately did not know what he or she was doing, and ended up with a mess.

This stuff isn't hard. How they could have screwed up the design is beyond me.

Although the 675LT is a fine car, after McLaren pulled their little stunt with more than doubling the production run, I decided to sell mine. I have not got around to doing that yet, but should probably do so soon. For me, it is not part of a "set".

Those Le Mans wheels, finally someone else has noticed it.

[McAndy]

flemke said:

I still think that the best looking modern McLaren is the MP4-12C.

I'm glad that it's not just me. It's an excellent example of aesthetic simplicity maturing, but "fussy and fashionable" ageing.

[Joe911]

flemke said:

Various spy shots and "Autocar Images" of the car have been published, the more recent of which have captured the essence of the actual bodywork. I'd have to say that it doesn't really do it for me. I prefer gracefulness and beauty to meretriciousness and novel but unattractive detailing. Whenever I look at images of the front of the P14, I am reminded of insects.

Not sure that I dislike the 'insect' thing particularly - car design has been done, all these guys are doing seems to be variations on a theme and it's not surprising they are running out of (new) ideas. It is surprising (or indeed not) that they have an 'emperors new clothes' approach to their latest car design and they think they are breaking the mould with some amazing new concept, where as in fact I think most of us find it all a bit of a yawn. Not that they are bad cars, just that I don't really care whether the headlights are more round or more oval, or whether the bonnet rake has been radically changed from 17 degrees to 16.9 degrees, or whatever.

That new car looks a bit snub-nosed in that artists impression.

[Davey S2]

McAndy said:

flemke said:

I still think that the best looking modern McLaren is the MP4-12C.

I'm glad that it's not just me. It's an excellent example of aesthetic simplicity maturing, but "fussy and fashionable" ageing.

Same here although I much prefer the MSO front splitter and am amazed they didn't use this as standard

[cc8s]

The MSO/50th Anniversary bumper is definitely my favourite on the 12C. If I was to cerate my perfect McLaren, I'd probably start with the 12C as a base and then modify it with some of the available MSO parts.

F, thank you for answering about the paint - very interesting to know!

Joe911 said:

flemke said:

McLaren painted the LTs (both coupe and spider) in their normal production "line". They paint(ed) F1s, P1s and HSs as one-offs, which allows for a more complex process.

So it's the process that is different - not the paint colour, I guess they can use any colour on the production line - but the result is a (very) subtly different colour/effect. Can't say that I noticed - maybe need to take all the cars somewhere to compare and investigate - Scotland maybe.

If you head up this way, feel more than welcome to drop me a message!

[McAndy]

Davey S2 said:

Same here although I much prefer the MSO front splitter and am amazed they didn't use this as standard

Yep. Somewhere I have a photo of a slightly smokey silver car with the MSO front end. It has to be one of the best looking McLaren Automotives that I've seen.

[Storer]

When you get round to selling the LT will you have it repainted before selling to keep the BA colour specific to you?

[flemke]

epom said:

flemke said:

Don1 said:

Mr F, were you not tempted to have the scoop on the LT as well? To 'complete the set' so to speak?

The scoop was available only about halfway through the LT build run. My car was built before then.
The scoop offers no performance advantage; although functional in the sense that it does pipe air into the engine, it is really there for cosmetic reasons.
For me the other issue was that, in contrast to the scoops/snorkels on the F1 and P1, the 650S "Le Mans"/675 LT snorkel was not properly designed. Unlike the continuous curves of the preceding two, the LT version is effectively a trapezoid: flat sides and top joined by tight bends. Whoever designed it was probably the same person who designed the 650S Le Mans wheels: he or she started with a handsome original, tried to emulate it whilst making the new version his/her "own", unfortunately did not know what he or she was doing, and ended up with a mess.

This stuff isn't hard. How they could have screwed up the design is beyond me.

Although the 675LT is a fine car, after McLaren pulled their little stunt with more than doubling the production run, I decided to sell mine. I have not got around to doing that yet, but should probably do so soon. For me, it is not part of a "set".

Those Le Mans wheels, finally someone else has noticed it.

Yes, whoever designed them just didn't get it.

This is a proper wheel:


and this is a failed pastiche:

[flemke]

McAndy said:

flemke said:

I still think that the best looking modern McLaren is the MP4-12C.

I'm glad that it's not just me. It's an excellent example of aesthetic simplicity maturing, but "fussy and fashionable" ageing.

Well put.

[flemke]

Joe911 said:

flemke said:

Various spy shots and "Autocar Images" of the car have been published, the more recent of which have captured the essence of the actual bodywork. I'd have to say that it doesn't really do it for me. I prefer gracefulness and beauty to meretriciousness and novel but unattractive detailing. Whenever I look at images of the front of the P14, I am reminded of insects.

Not sure that I dislike the 'insect' thing particularly - car design has been done, all these guys are doing seems to be variations on a theme and it's not surprising they are running out of (new) ideas. It is surprising (or indeed not) that they have an 'emperors new clothes' approach to their latest car design and they think they are breaking the mould with some amazing new concept, where as in fact I think most of us find it all a bit of a yawn. Not that they are bad cars, just that I don't really care whether the headlights are more round or more oval, or whether the bonnet rake has been radically changed from 17 degrees to 16.9 degrees, or whatever.

That new car looks a bit snub-nosed in that artists impression.

I don't know, Joe. ISTM that there have been some nice cars, and certainly some cars with nice elements, designed in this millennium. I don't think it's "all" been done already. Although the basic proportions are pretty much set as soon as the configuration is decided, it's often the details and subtleties that make the difference.

Designers seem to lose their nerve, wrongly believing that they have to make things different, rather than to make things better. Or perhaps it's the yoyos in the marketing departments who force them into that position. Or perhaps it's the idiots who buy this stuff....

[RumbleOfThunder]

The new Le Mans wheels look good. What's to criticise?