Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

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Discussion

flemke

22,864 posts

236 months

Monday 13th February 2017
quotequote all
dobly said:
Any update on the NSX-R going back to Takanezawa for a refresh?
I am waiting to hear back from my friend who is helping me to arrange it. The choke point is that the refresh program is available only through Honda dealers based in Japan.

Swampy1982

3,305 posts

110 months

Tuesday 14th February 2017
quotequote all
Flemke - With spring coming but time at a premium for you, I wondered if you have any trips planned in your cars.

If so, which cars, where, will you tailor the car to the trip in order to gain maximum enjoyment?

Another question which I am sure has been answered, but I am curious as to your daily driver, what you drive and why you chose it?

I often wonder whether, with a garage full of exotica, I would want a simple car to fulfill the daily duties and if it would offer a welcome care free driving experience more so than someone who was "forced" to own one due to circumstance, whether family, financial or otherwise.

Wow, that question was longer than I expected... hope it make sense.

douglas111

60 posts

114 months

Tuesday 14th February 2017
quotequote all
Ref the F1 GTR, I watched this interview with Peter Stevens:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MklQ5m9zig

A few points struck me. Firstly, I didn't realise he'd left McLaren by then and was working with David Price Racing where they made their own modifications to the car, such as a shorter windscreen to enable the car to sit lower.

Secondly, he refers to Gordon as the 'engineer' on the project. I would have thought that's a little under valuing his work.

Thirdly, he states, '...a small technical element to the customer cars where they were all encouraged to take a new tiny piece of engineering which didn't work properly. The car that won, which was another McLaren F1, didn't have the new piece and ran faultlessly on account of that, so we did all feel a little disappointed, but, the result of this technical problem was that for the last 4 hours of this race Andy Wallace had to drive it without a clutch..."

I thought, and can't recall where I got this, that Lanzante were just applying WD40 to overcome the same issue as the customer cars.


Rich_W

12,548 posts

211 months

Tuesday 14th February 2017
quotequote all
douglas111 said:
Ref the F1 GTR, I watched this interview with Peter Stevens:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MklQ5m9zig

A few points struck me. Firstly, I didn't realise he'd left McLaren by then and was working with David Price Racing where they made their own modifications to the car, such as a shorter windscreen to enable the car to sit lower.

Secondly, he refers to Gordon as the 'engineer' on the project. I would have thought that's a little under valuing his work.

Thirdly, he states, '...a small technical element to the customer cars where they were all encouraged to take a new tiny piece of engineering which didn't work properly. The car that won, which was another McLaren F1, didn't have the new piece and ran faultlessly on account of that, so we did all feel a little disappointed, but, the result of this technical problem was that for the last 4 hours of this race Andy Wallace had to drive it without a clutch..."

I thought, and can't recall where I got this, that Lanzante were just applying WD40 to overcome the same issue as the customer cars.

I think this where Peleton or Hurst let us know the windscreen differences. Its never occurred to me that the screen encroached on the wheel arch.

I think it was Evo magazine regarding the (IIRC) clutch linkage sticking

Storer

5,024 posts

214 months

Tuesday 14th February 2017
quotequote all
Swampy1982 said:
I often wonder whether, with a garage full of exotica, I would want a simple car to fulfill the daily duties and if it would offer a welcome care free driving experience more so than someone who was "forced" to own one due to circumstance, whether family, financial or otherwise.
I can't answer for Flemke but in my much simpler/less exotic case each car I own has it's elements I like/enjoy. Also, a degree of practicality has to enter the ring. Part of the enjoyment of a car is that it does the task asked of it with no fuss or drawbacks.

There will be occasions when part of the requirement is anonymity as well as practicality. An Audi A2 fits the bill well.

Mine is a Discovery as I need the 4x4 ability and the towing capacity. But it is comfortable, quiet and capacious. It is also not too precious to fill with wet Labradors, rusty steel, oil drums or anything I need to transport.

Rich_W

12,548 posts

211 months

Tuesday 14th February 2017
quotequote all
Storer said:
Swampy1982 said:
I often wonder whether, with a garage full of exotica, I would want a simple car to fulfill the daily duties and if it would offer a welcome care free driving experience more so than someone who was "forced" to own one due to circumstance, whether family, financial or otherwise.
I can't answer for Flemke but in my much simpler/less exotic case each car I own has it's elements I like/enjoy. Also, a degree of practicality has to enter the ring. Part of the enjoyment of a car is that it does the task asked of it with no fuss or drawbacks.

There will be occasions when part of the requirement is anonymity as well as practicality. An Audi A2 fits the bill well.

Mine is a Discovery as I need the 4x4 ability and the towing capacity. But it is comfortable, quiet and capacious. It is also not too precious to fill with wet Labradors, rusty steel, oil drums or anything I need to transport.
Interestingly "Woppum" recently bought a FF as a everyday car for taking the doggy out. People did question why not a RS6 or similar. But he didn't want one. (I forget why)

I imagine that Flemke or Andy (Lark) or GSM or whoever, do occasionally need to take unwanted crap to the local recycling centre. Maybe they just hire a Van for the weekend. laugh

Always said that I'm not a collecting person. So who needs a garage full of exotics? 2 car garage (A Hypercar & Fast German something) and a motorbike will do me fine. laugh

vincegail

2,456 posts

154 months

Wednesday 15th February 2017
quotequote all
Rich_W said:
douglas111 said:
Thirdly, he states, '...a small technical element to the customer cars where they were all encouraged to take a new tiny piece of engineering which didn't work properly. The car that won, which was another McLaren F1, didn't have the new piece and ran faultlessly on account of that, so we did all feel a little disappointed, but, the result of this technical problem was that for the last 4 hours of this race Andy Wallace had to drive it without a clutch..."

I thought, and can't recall where I got this, that Lanzante were just applying WD40 to overcome the same issue as the customer cars.

I think it was Evo magazine regarding the (IIRC) clutch linkage sticking
I read about it in EVO magazine indeed.

"'At the next stop we checked everything, but couldn’t see an obvious problem. Then I remembered the linkage mechanism was exposed in the transverse ’box’s casing. Although they were partially shielded by a panel and a liberal coating of silicone grease, the rain and grit was being blasted at the linkages, forming a very effective grinding paste and gumming the whole thing up.

THE GEARBOX WAS SWEETER AT THE END OF THE RACE THAN IT WAS AT THE BEGINNING!'I can remember thinking ‘we’ve got to do something about this’, and decided to pump as much WD40 as possible into the area where the rainwater and grit was collecting. We did it every stop from then on. Not only did we not encounter any more selection issues, but the gearbox was sweeter at the end of the race than it was at the beginning!' "

Page 2 of the following article:
http://www.evo.co.uk/mclaren/11169/mclaren-f1-at-t...

dobly

1,168 posts

158 months

Wednesday 15th February 2017
quotequote all
flemke said:
I am waiting to hear back from my friend who is helping me to arrange it. The choke point is that the refresh program is available only through Honda dealers based in Japan.
I have a contact in Japan who may be able to help, should you get stuck - no promises, as I haven't approached him about this.

Swampy1982

3,305 posts

110 months

Wednesday 15th February 2017
quotequote all
Storer said:
Swampy1982 said:
I often wonder whether, with a garage full of exotica, I would want a simple car to fulfill the daily duties and if it would offer a welcome care free driving experience more so than someone who was "forced" to own one due to circumstance, whether family, financial or otherwise.
I can't answer for Flemke but in my much simpler/less exotic case each car I own has it's elements I like/enjoy. Also, a degree of practicality has to enter the ring. Part of the enjoyment of a car is that it does the task asked of it with no fuss or drawbacks.

There will be occasions when part of the requirement is anonymity as well as practicality. An Audi A2 fits the bill well.

Mine is a Discovery as I need the 4x4 ability and the towing capacity. But it is comfortable, quiet and capacious. It is also not too precious to fill with wet Labradors, rusty steel, oil drums or anything I need to transport.
I think when you have an LS7 powered ultima I can see the need to balance it with something 4x4 and practical for the tip run... I think through my question I was trying to tap into the theory of "having options elevates all cars within the garage, even the most basic daily"

To that ends, you have gone some way to answering, with your "horses for courses" approach.

douglas111

60 posts

114 months

Wednesday 15th February 2017
quotequote all
vincegail said:
Rich_W said:
douglas111 said:
Thirdly, he states, '...a small technical element to the customer cars where they were all encouraged to take a new tiny piece of engineering which didn't work properly. The car that won, which was another McLaren F1, didn't have the new piece and ran faultlessly on account of that, so we did all feel a little disappointed, but, the result of this technical problem was that for the last 4 hours of this race Andy Wallace had to drive it without a clutch..."

I thought, and can't recall where I got this, that Lanzante were just applying WD40 to overcome the same issue as the customer cars.

I think it was Evo magazine regarding the (IIRC) clutch linkage sticking
I read about it in EVO magazine indeed.

"'At the next stop we checked everything, but couldn’t see an obvious problem. Then I remembered the linkage mechanism was exposed in the transverse ’box’s casing. Although they were partially shielded by a panel and a liberal coating of silicone grease, the rain and grit was being blasted at the linkages, forming a very effective grinding paste and gumming the whole thing up.

THE GEARBOX WAS SWEETER AT THE END OF THE RACE THAN IT WAS AT THE BEGINNING!'I can remember thinking ‘we’ve got to do something about this’, and decided to pump as much WD40 as possible into the area where the rainwater and grit was collecting. We did it every stop from then on. Not only did we not encounter any more selection issues, but the gearbox was sweeter at the end of the race than it was at the beginning!' "

Page 2 of the following article:
http://www.evo.co.uk/mclaren/11169/mclaren-f1-at-t...
Thanks guys. Enjoyed reading that.

In the 20 year celebration video, Paul L doesn't mention the engine swap at all. Instead, he says that the trip to the runway the night before was to check the cross-over lights on the front bonnet. I suppose it could have been for both reasons but it's a bit odd.

Edited by douglas111 on Wednesday 15th February 09:37

Silver Smudger

3,292 posts

166 months

Wednesday 15th February 2017
quotequote all
douglas111 said:
Secondly, he refers to Gordon as the 'engineer' on the project. I would have thought that's a little under valuing his work.
I think this is more that the title of Engineer is a little under valued, in this country especially - Engineering is exactly what Gordon Murray does.

" Engineers design materials, structures, and systems while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety, and cost. The word engineer (from the Latin ingeniator) is derived from the Latin words ingeniare ("to contrive, devise") and ingenium ("cleverness")...

...In the UK, "engineering" was more recently perceived as an industry sector consisting of employers and employees loosely termed "engineers" who included the semi-skilled trades. However, the 21st-century view, especially amongst the more educated members of society, is to reserve the term Engineer to describe a university-educated practitioner of ingenuity represented by the Chartered (or Incorporated) Engineer. However, a large proportion of the UK public still sees Engineers as semi-skilled tradespeople with a high school education."


Edited by Silver Smudger on Wednesday 15th February 09:51

thegreenhell

15,115 posts

218 months

Wednesday 15th February 2017
quotequote all
Silver Smudger said:
douglas111 said:
Secondly, he refers to Gordon as the 'engineer' on the project. I would have thought that's a little under valuing his work.
I think this is more that the title of Engineer is a little under valued, in this country especially - Engineering is exactly what Gordon Murray does.
Exactly this, combined with the common misconception that 'designers' design cars, rather than the engineers. I know they sometimes do something more than just draw a pretty body shape, but I think they often take far more credit than they are due for the existence of some cars. In this instance I would say that Gordon Murray designed the McLaren F1, and Peter Stevens styled it. In the video of Peter Stevens a few posts above, he seemed to be claiming far more influence in the car than I had imagined he had, including its three-seat layout which I had understood to have been the core of GM's original concept.

McAndy

12,337 posts

176 months

Wednesday 15th February 2017
quotequote all
Silver Smudger said:
I think this is more that the title of Engineer is a little under valued, in this country especially - Engineering is exactly what Gordon Murray does.

" Engineers design materials, structures, and systems while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety, and cost. The word engineer (from the Latin ingeniator) is derived from the Latin words ingeniare ("to contrive, devise") and ingenium ("cleverness")...

...In the UK, "engineering" was more recently perceived as an industry sector consisting of employers and employees loosely termed "engineers" who included the semi-skilled trades. However, the 21st-century view, especially amongst the more educated members of society, is to reserve the term Engineer to describe a university-educated practitioner of ingenuity represented by the Chartered (or Incorporated) Engineer. However, a large proportion of the UK public still sees Engineers as semi-skilled tradespeople with a high school education."


Edited by Silver Smudger on Wednesday 15th February 09:51
Yep. Frustrates me immensely. Additionally, those who insist on calling them selves "water pipe engineers" devalue themselves; not all engineers could fix a boiler (without due training).

flemke

22,864 posts

236 months

Thursday 16th February 2017
quotequote all
Swampy1982 said:
Flemke - With spring coming but time at a premium for you, I wondered if you have any trips planned in your cars.

If so, which cars, where, will you tailor the car to the trip in order to gain maximum enjoyment?

Another question which I am sure has been answered, but I am curious as to your daily driver, what you drive and why you chose it?

I often wonder whether, with a garage full of exotica, I would want a simple car to fulfill the daily duties and if it would offer a welcome care free driving experience more so than someone who was "forced" to own one due to circumstance, whether family, financial or otherwise.

Wow, that question was longer than I expected... hope it make sense.
No particular driving enjoyment trips planned. If I'm lucky, I'll be able to find a few days when I could go to Germany or Scotland and drive around in circles. I will be doing some extended driving in the western US, but that will be different.

My daily driver is an old A2, which is perfect for London. Small, easy to manoeuvre and to fit through narrow gaps, yet it holds 4/5 people and has enough carrying capacity for almost everything that I need to move around.

flemke

22,864 posts

236 months

Thursday 16th February 2017
quotequote all
dobly said:
flemke said:
I am waiting to hear back from my friend who is helping me to arrange it. The choke point is that the refresh program is available only through Honda dealers based in Japan.
I have a contact in Japan who may be able to help, should you get stuck - no promises, as I haven't approached him about this.
Cheers for that. I have some contacts in Japan as well, but my friend, who also owns an NSX, said that he wanted to get involved and help and I'm leaving it up to him.

flemke

22,864 posts

236 months

Thursday 16th February 2017
quotequote all
McAndy said:
Silver Smudger said:
I think this is more that the title of Engineer is a little under valued, in this country especially - Engineering is exactly what Gordon Murray does.

" Engineers design materials, structures, and systems while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety, and cost. The word engineer (from the Latin ingeniator) is derived from the Latin words ingeniare ("to contrive, devise") and ingenium ("cleverness")...

...In the UK, "engineering" was more recently perceived as an industry sector consisting of employers and employees loosely termed "engineers" who included the semi-skilled trades. However, the 21st-century view, especially amongst the more educated members of society, is to reserve the term Engineer to describe a university-educated practitioner of ingenuity represented by the Chartered (or Incorporated) Engineer. However, a large proportion of the UK public still sees Engineers as semi-skilled tradespeople with a high school education."
Yep. Frustrates me immensely. Additionally, those who insist on calling them selves "water pipe engineers" devalue themselves; not all engineers could fix a boiler (without due training).
That is a fair point, Equally, one suspects, not all water pipe engineers could design a Formula One car. wink

dom9

8,040 posts

208 months

Thursday 16th February 2017
quotequote all
flemke said:
That is a fair point, Equally, one suspects, not all water pipe engineers could design a Formula One car. wink
But some could (or go the other way) wink

skidskid

283 posts

140 months

Thursday 16th February 2017
quotequote all
dom9 said:
flemke said:
That is a fair point, Equally, one suspects, not all water pipe engineers could design a Formula One car. wink
But some could (or go the other way) wink
Thats why most engineers have titles like "mechanical engineer", "mechanical development engineer" or "design engineer". What you work on doesnt matter, your skills are the same. You can add or subtract components as required by your specialty.

Anyone who calls them selves a "coffee machine engineer" etc can ps off though. Thats a jumped up job title for someone who isnt an engineer. The way the UK has let the term engineer be used by anyone these days is a joke.

dom9

8,040 posts

208 months

Thursday 16th February 2017
quotequote all
For sure - I was having a joke with myself really smile

I studied Fluid Mechanics at post-grad so went from an aerodynamics focus to internal pipe flows (i.e. cars to O&G).

Engineer is an over-used term these days but it's never really bothered me to be honest.

foxsasha

1,416 posts

134 months

Thursday 16th February 2017
quotequote all
Rich_W said:
Always said that I'm not a collecting person. So who needs a garage full of exotics? 2 car garage (A Hypercar & Fast German something) and a motorbike will do me fine. laugh
You're missing a track car, 4 seater supercar and a race car. And that's just for starters. Big gaps in motoring experiences with just a hypercar and daily hack. beer Though granted, they're not necessarily exotics, just vehicles. Still, two cars and a bike doesn't cut it. wink