Is the diesel backlash about to start?
Discussion
gizlaroc said:
Monkeylegend said:
Cost is not an issue, I genuinely prefer diesel, hard as it might be to believe.
I do find that hard to believe. You sure you prefer diesel? Or maybe you prefer forced induction?
250bhp turbo petrol vs a 250bhp turbo diesel? You prefer the sound of the diesel and the shorter rev range? That is really the only differences between those two.
I will have to believe you do prefer it if you say you do, but I find that strange.
I do drive about 90k miles a year though still, but will keep the diesel when I semi retire in the next year or so.
Monkeylegend said:
I am getting old and boring in relation to cars. My days of V8's and petrol turbos are over, I just prefer to waft in a biggish car and find diesel is best for this.
I do drive about 90k miles a year though still, but will keep the diesel when I semi retire in the next year or so.
Why? Because it's louder and less responsive? I find petrol engines to be much more refined and relaxing even these days!I do drive about 90k miles a year though still, but will keep the diesel when I semi retire in the next year or so.
ORD said:
Why? Because it's louder and less responsive? I find petrol engines to be much more refined and relaxing even these days!
Me too, quieter, more refined, more relaxing when you want to potter round under 3000rpm and then more alive if you want to keep it up the rev range. I am a diesel owner, but I honestly can't think of a single area where they are better apart from saving me money.
gizlaroc said:
Which is what I always say. I always end with saying 'buy a diesel because you prefer it'.
Don't try and justify it with running costs, it is bulls
t for 90% of people.
These weekly threads are *never* started by people justifying diesel though. They're *always* started by someone who wants to attack someone's car choice, for some reason. Don't try and justify it with running costs, it is bulls
t for 90% of people. The running costs haven't been bulls
t for most of the past 30 years, either.gizlaroc said:
250bhp turbo petrol vs a 250bhp turbo diesel? You prefer the sound of the diesel and the shorter rev range? That is really the only differences between those two.
In the car you can't hear the noise, and indeed the car may now have engine sounds coming through the speakers.A car with a 250bhp diesel will almost certainly be upmarket and thus will have an auto 'box.
So both of your reasons are unlikely to present themselves in reality. Which leaves the only other reason, the one I've been saying for the past 20 years, which is that the only really tangible difference between the two is that one requires you to stop more often to fill up.
ORD said:
Monkeylegend said:
I am getting old and boring in relation to cars. My days of V8's and petrol turbos are over, I just prefer to waft in a biggish car and find diesel is best for this.
I do drive about 90k miles a year though still, but will keep the diesel when I semi retire in the next year or so.
Why? Because it's louder and less responsive? I find petrol engines to be much more refined and relaxing even these days!I do drive about 90k miles a year though still, but will keep the diesel when I semi retire in the next year or so.
I like the torquey, relaxed driving feel of diesel, it is plenty fast enough for me, and very quiet at cruising speeds. Yes it sounds a bit coarse on hard acceleration but that doesn't bother me. Cruising at motorway speeds at 2000 rpm is very realxxxxxxxxxxing.
It also feels much more robust than the many petrol engine cars I have driven over the years and I enjoy that feeling.
As I said earlier, horses for courses. I can understand why many don't like diesel but it suits me and my needs.
Monkeylegend said:
I like the torquey, relaxed driving feel of diesel, it is plenty fast enough for me, and very quiet at cruising speeds. Yes it sounds a bit coarse on hard acceleration but that doesn't bother me. Cruising at motorway speeds at 2000 rpm is very realxxxxxxxxxxing.
It also feels much more robust than the many petrol engine cars I have driven over the years and I enjoy that feeling.
As I said earlier, horses for courses. I can understand why many don't like diesel but it suits me and my needs.
You don't 'like diesel' you like torquey, wafty power delivery. The engine out of a 550i for example, with it's twin turbo 4.4 V8, would be more wafty, more effortless, silent at idle and gloriously smooth - better than your diesel in every single way....It also feels much more robust than the many petrol engine cars I have driven over the years and I enjoy that feeling.
As I said earlier, horses for courses. I can understand why many don't like diesel but it suits me and my needs.
..except how much it COSTS. Diesel is about cost. It always comes down to that in the end - there is ALWAYS a cost reason why diesel was chosen. Even my excuse - that I simply couldn't find a 535i to buy used so I had to buy a 530d - comes down to cost because I could have ordered a new 535i if I could afford it, which I couldn't.
Fox- said:
Monkeylegend said:
I like the torquey, relaxed driving feel of diesel, it is plenty fast enough for me, and very quiet at cruising speeds. Yes it sounds a bit coarse on hard acceleration but that doesn't bother me. Cruising at motorway speeds at 2000 rpm is very realxxxxxxxxxxing.
It also feels much more robust than the many petrol engine cars I have driven over the years and I enjoy that feeling.
As I said earlier, horses for courses. I can understand why many don't like diesel but it suits me and my needs.
You don't 'like diesel' you like torquey, wafty power delivery. The engine out of a 550i for example, with it's twin turbo 4.4 V8, would be more wafty, more effortless, silent at idle and gloriously smooth - better than your diesel in every single way....It also feels much more robust than the many petrol engine cars I have driven over the years and I enjoy that feeling.
As I said earlier, horses for courses. I can understand why many don't like diesel but it suits me and my needs.
..except how much it COSTS. Diesel is about cost. It always comes down to that in the end - there is ALWAYS a cost reason why diesel was chosen. Even my excuse - that I simply couldn't find a 535i to buy used so I had to buy a 530d - comes down to cost because I could have ordered a new 535i if I could afford it, which I couldn't.
Fox- said:
You don't 'like diesel' .....
And who are you to tell him what he like or dislike?Over the years I was privileged to own some really fast cars, however today I do enjoy and LIKE very much my diesel.
Everything is about a choice. In my past I did enjoyed fast petrol cars, today I am all about smooth effortless driving without all the fuss.
Please be respectful to other people opinion.
heebeegeetee said:
gizlaroc said:
Which is what I always say. I always end with saying 'buy a diesel because you prefer it'.
Don't try and justify it with running costs, it is bullst for 90% of people.
These weekly threads are *never* started by people justifying diesel though. They're *always* started by someone who wants to attack someone's car choice, for some reason. Don't try and justify it with running costs, it is bulls
t for 90% of people. The running costs haven't been bulls
t for most of the past 30 years, either.gizlaroc said:
250bhp turbo petrol vs a 250bhp turbo diesel? You prefer the sound of the diesel and the shorter rev range? That is really the only differences between those two.
In the car you can't hear the noise, and indeed the car may now have engine sounds coming through the speakers.A car with a 250bhp diesel will almost certainly be upmarket and thus will have an auto 'box.
So both of your reasons are unlikely to present themselves in reality. Which leaves the only other reason, the one I've been saying for the past 20 years, which is that the only really tangible difference between the two is that one requires you to stop more often to fill up.
With the very latest generation of cars the difference is not there, in either performance or mpg, so it now comes down to which you prefer. But people keep buying the diesel looking back at the petrol they owned that was designed in 1990!
What are you talking about '....will be upmarket and have an auto 'box'??
Upmarket? If you want auto you buy auto, if you want manual buy a manual, no one is saying buy a Mercedes diesel or a Dacia petrol.
That is the other thing, a manual with a petrol works, on a diesel it is s
te imho. Not driven one that I haven't hated yet. VAG manual on diesel is terrible, same with BMW, and the ones I hear are not too bad are in cars I wouldn't want to buy anyway.
Fox- said:
Monkeylegend said:
I like the torquey, relaxed driving feel of diesel, it is plenty fast enough for me, and very quiet at cruising speeds. Yes it sounds a bit coarse on hard acceleration but that doesn't bother me. Cruising at motorway speeds at 2000 rpm is very realxxxxxxxxxxing.
It also feels much more robust than the many petrol engine cars I have driven over the years and I enjoy that feeling.
As I said earlier, horses for courses. I can understand why many don't like diesel but it suits me and my needs.
You don't 'like diesel' you like torquey, wafty power delivery. The engine out of a 550i for example, with it's twin turbo 4.4 V8, would be more wafty, more effortless, silent at idle and gloriously smooth - better than your diesel in every single way....It also feels much more robust than the many petrol engine cars I have driven over the years and I enjoy that feeling.
As I said earlier, horses for courses. I can understand why many don't like diesel but it suits me and my needs.
..except how much it COSTS. Diesel is about cost. It always comes down to that in the end - there is ALWAYS a cost reason why diesel was chosen. Even my excuse - that I simply couldn't find a 535i to buy used so I had to buy a 530d - comes down to cost because I could have ordered a new 535i if I could afford it, which I couldn't.
Monkeylegend said:
I like diesel, sorry to disappoint.
Ok - so its time for you to buy a new diesel. You like diesel. Fortunately, in the intervening period, the Pistonheads Party has been voted in and now all fuel for road use is free of charge. You spot two cars for sale - both are identical in every respect bar the engine. One is a 640d (Twin turbo diesel). One is a 650 (Twin turbo V8 petrol).Which do you pick and why?
pavka007 said:
Everything is about a choice. In my past I did enjoyed fast petrol cars, today I am all about smooth effortless driving without all the fuss.
I notice you have a Mercedes logo in your profile, so I assume that they make the sort of cars which you like.What is it about the S500 or the SL500 that don't allow 'smooth effortless driving without all the fuss' in quite the way an S320 CDI does?
I'd counter that something like an S500 is the very definition of 'smooth effortless driving'.
Exactly, and that is my point, we buy diesel because we can get the effortless power while saving visits to the pump.
It is a compromise we make.
However, that is changing, the gap is getting smaller and smaller in regards to consumption, every time we get advances in diesel tech they are wiped out by stricter emissions rules.
I used to get 50-60mpg from my 1995 A4 1.9tdi, the new 2.0tdi is no better.
You can't say the same about the new petrols, the 1.8i used to see 25mpg, the new 1.4tfsi is seeing 45mpg from most.
It is a compromise we make.
However, that is changing, the gap is getting smaller and smaller in regards to consumption, every time we get advances in diesel tech they are wiped out by stricter emissions rules.
I used to get 50-60mpg from my 1995 A4 1.9tdi, the new 2.0tdi is no better.
You can't say the same about the new petrols, the 1.8i used to see 25mpg, the new 1.4tfsi is seeing 45mpg from most.
Fox- said:
Monkeylegend said:
I like diesel, sorry to disappoint.
Ok - so its time for you to buy a new diesel. You like diesel. Fortunately, in the intervening period, the Pistonheads Party has been voted in and now all fuel for road use is free of charge. You spot two cars for sale - both are identical in every respect bar the engine. One is a 640d (Twin turbo diesel). One is a 650 (Twin turbo V8 petrol).Which do you pick and why?
You seem to want me to agree with you almost to the point of embarrassment.
I PREFER DIESEL TO PETROL
Monkeylegend said:
I would go for the E350 Cdi which will most likely be my next car.I don't fancy a Be-em of any description.
It was an example. You could have just pretended they were Mercedes examples if you wanted.Monkeylegend said:
You seem to want me to agree with you almost to the point of embarrassment.
I PREFER DIESEL TO PETROL
It's a discussion forum and I'm just trying to get to what's behind your view. It's proving quite difficult but I'll have one last go.I PREFER DIESEL TO PETROL
It's time to buy your E350 CDI. The Pistonheads Party are still in so it's still free fuel for everyone. The same dealer has an identical E500 at the same money.
Which do you pick and why?
Hopefully you've got the idea by now that I'm not trying to work out whether you prefer diesel, I'm trying to work out *why*. If it's power delivery then the point I am making is that this power deliver isn't diesel specific...
As I said, I have an F10 530d. I get the big diesel exec thing. I get it so much that I drive one - and I love the way it delivers its power, how quick it is, how effortless everything is, how well it works with the autobox, etc. But it does all of these things becuase it is a large capacity turbocharged engine not becuase it's a diesel. The only benefit I get that is specifically because it's diesel is that it'll do almost 50mpg on a run (Which I also like, but it goes back to my argument that the point in diesel = lower costs).
But the 550i does all that too, only it costs more money to own. So I don't have one... and that's pretty much the only real reason why not. In a world where running costs were of no concern why would you pick 530d over 550i or E350 or E500, etc?
Edited by Fox- on Saturday 16th August 17:43
Edited by Fox- on Saturday 16th August 17:44
Monkeylegend said:
I would go for the E350 Cdi which will most likely be my next car.I don't fancy a Be-em of any description.
You seem to want me to agree with you almost to the point of embarrassment.
I PREFER DIESEL TO PETROL
It is not a great engine. You seem to want me to agree with you almost to the point of embarrassment.
I PREFER DIESEL TO PETROL
I had one.
Crap economy and a bit noisy compared with BMWs offering.
gizlaroc said:
Monkeylegend said:
I would go for the E350 Cdi which will most likely be my next car.I don't fancy a Be-em of any description.
You seem to want me to agree with you almost to the point of embarrassment.
I PREFER DIESEL TO PETROL
It is not a great engine. You seem to want me to agree with you almost to the point of embarrassment.
I PREFER DIESEL TO PETROL
I had one.
Crap economy and a bit noisy compared with BMWs offering.
Fox- said:
Monkeylegend said:
I would go for the E350 Cdi which will most likely be my next car.I don't fancy a Be-em of any description.
It was an example. You could have just pretended they were Mercedes examples if you wanted.Monkeylegend said:
You seem to want me to agree with you almost to the point of embarrassment.
I PREFER DIESEL TO PETROL
It's a discussion forum and I'm just trying to get to what's behind your view. It's proving quite difficult but I'll have one last go.I PREFER DIESEL TO PETROL
It's time to buy your E350 CDI. The Pistonheads Party are still in so it's still free fuel for everyone. The same dealer has an identical E500 at the same money.
Which do you pick and why?
Hopefully you've got the idea by now that I'm not trying to work out whether you prefer diesel, I'm trying to work out *why*. If it's power delivery then the point I am making is that this power deliver isn't diesel specific...
As I said, I have an F10 530d. I get the big diesel exec thing. I get it so much that I drive one - and I love the way it delivers its power, how quick it is, how effortless everything is, how well it works with the autobox, etc. But it does all of these things becuase it is a large capacity turbocharged engine not becuase it's a diesel. The only benefit I get that is specifically because it's diesel is that it'll do almost 50mpg on a run (Which I also like, but it goes back to my argument that the point in diesel = lower costs).
But the 550i does all that too, only it costs more money to own. So I don't have one... and that's pretty much the only real reason why not. In a world where running costs were of no concern why would you pick 530d over 550i or E350 or E500, etc?
Edited by Fox- on Saturday 16th August 17:43
Edited by Fox- on Saturday 16th August 17:44
The real reason is something I am reluctant to admit on an open forum,
but here goes, I have a fetish for the smell of diesel, there I have outed myself.
Monkeylegend said:
If you read through my previous posts you will find the answer to your questions, but if you want more............
The real reason is something I am reluctant to admit on an open forum,
but here goes, I have a fetish for the smell of diesel, there I have outed myself.
Haha, that tickled me. The real reason is something I am reluctant to admit on an open forum,
but here goes, I have a fetish for the smell of diesel, there I have outed myself.
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