Is the diesel backlash about to start?
Discussion
Goody13 said:
The thing that got me a few years ago is that I had a Sony MP3 player and people thought it was called an i-Pod! Oh how the branding merchants must be laughing having done a fantastic job of brainwashing the gullible and stupid.
I use a Samsung Galaxy Tablet, and people still feel the need to refer to it as an i-Pad. Why? An i-Pad is a tablet. A tablet is not an i-Pad. Likewise with MP3 players and i-Pods.
Ah, you must be one of those people that don't use the following synonymous brand names...... I use a Samsung Galaxy Tablet, and people still feel the need to refer to it as an i-Pad. Why? An i-Pad is a tablet. A tablet is not an i-Pad. Likewise with MP3 players and i-Pods.
Hoover
Sellotape
Coke
tip-ex
Biro
Vaseline
Frisbee
walkman
Asprin
stanley knife
tarmac
etc etc etc
Ranger 6 said:
Backlash? Not from me (yet 
)
At the moment I'm happy with my wafting 500nm and 500 miles to a tank. For my next car I'd like to see a petrol car with; 500 mile range, 300+ bhp, 40+ mpg and a sub 6-sec to 60 and £180 VED - then I may be interested....
Do I get an arrangement fee? )At the moment I'm happy with my wafting 500nm and 500 miles to a tank. For my next car I'd like to see a petrol car with; 500 mile range, 300+ bhp, 40+ mpg and a sub 6-sec to 60 and £180 VED - then I may be interested....
Running costs
Urban mpg 29.4 mpg CO2 emissions 164 g/km
Extra Urban mpg 50.4 mpg Annual Tax £180
Average mpg 40.4 mpg
Performance
Engine power 306 bhp Engine size 3498 cc
Acceleration (0-62mph) 6 seconds Top speed 155 mph
Wheel drive Rear Wheel Drive
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...
V88Dicky said:
Ranger 6 said:
Backlash? Not from me (yet )
At the moment I'm happy with my wafting 500nm and 500 miles to a tank. For my next car I'd like to see a petrol car with; 500 mile range, 300+ bhp, 40+ mpg and a sub 6-sec to 60 and £180 VED - then I may be interested....
Do I get an arrangement fee? )At the moment I'm happy with my wafting 500nm and 500 miles to a tank. For my next car I'd like to see a petrol car with; 500 mile range, 300+ bhp, 40+ mpg and a sub 6-sec to 60 and £180 VED - then I may be interested....
Running costs
Urban mpg 29.4 mpg CO2 emissions 164 g/km
Extra Urban mpg 50.4 mpg Annual Tax £180
Average mpg 40.4 mpg
Performance
Engine power 306 bhp Engine size 3498 cc
Acceleration (0-62mph) 6 seconds Top speed 155 mph
Wheel drive Rear Wheel Drive
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...
My Mazda Bongo Camper is an Oil Burner...I run it on 50% veg oil.... and came out 0.02 on the MOT smoke test... this Anti Diesel Crap is smoke n mirrors.... especially after the highly dubious Tim Yeo MP and his "green" company was the only way London Taxi Drivers could get new cabs.... yes all oil burners and yes....more polluting than the cabs they replaced....
Over the Channel in La Belle France... Diesel is £1.03 a litre...
Over the Channel in La Belle France... Diesel is £1.03 a litre...
Fastdruid said:
heebeegeetee said:
Fastdruid said:
Both stank if you had the windows open.
Stank of what? 
If they stank of diesel i'm surprised you didnt take them back, because they clearly shouldnt and dont.
Unless of course its a good story for the internet?
heebeegeetee said:
Fastdruid said:
Diesel fumes. Wtf else would they stink of?
How on earth do you suppose you're able to smell diesel from inside the car? Where's it coming from?Let me make it simple for you.
The engine is running (hard to miss really with the noise).
The exhaust is belching diesel fumes.
The window is open.
The fumes enter the window.
It stinks.
I've even noticed the stench without the windows open through the a/c. I presume that the wind had to be in the right (wrong!) direction for that to happen though.
king good motorway blast will blow it out?V88Dicky said:
Ranger 6 said:
Backlash? Not from me (yet )
At the moment I'm happy with my wafting 500nm and 500 miles to a tank. For my next car I'd like to see a petrol car with; 500 mile range, 300+ bhp, 40+ mpg and a sub 6-sec to 60 and £180 VED - then I may be interested....
Do I get an arrangement fee? )At the moment I'm happy with my wafting 500nm and 500 miles to a tank. For my next car I'd like to see a petrol car with; 500 mile range, 300+ bhp, 40+ mpg and a sub 6-sec to 60 and £180 VED - then I may be interested....
Running costs
Urban mpg 29.4 mpg CO2 emissions 164 g/km
Extra Urban mpg 50.4 mpg Annual Tax £180
Average mpg 40.4 mpg
Performance
Engine power 306 bhp Engine size 3498 cc
Acceleration (0-62mph) 6 seconds Top speed 155 mph
Wheel drive Rear Wheel Drive
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...
Only one problem - I should've put my full shopping list in as I need it to be able to traverse gravel rally stages occasionally and sometimes waft the family to the Alps - so ground clearance and 4wd along with decent boot space is quite high on the list. Does the estate come with 4wd and air suspension....??
bodhi said:
austinsmirk said:
don't know why everyone is also worrying about diesel reliability, I bet I've had them for 20 some years now with no bother and I also usually have two cars at once....... i.e the derv for boring stuff and something fun on the side.
show me a really big comfy petrol car that will do 55 + mpg at a nice speed on the motorway and 40 mpg around town, school run, shopping etc and I'm sold, but I suspect there isn't anything yet.
I'd like to know all the journeys you lot are doing that you can use all these excess's of power on a day to day basis......... my journeys of being stuck behind others on windy rural roads, or in towns littered with cameras mean fun driving is somewhat limited.
Given my colleague's Jag XF 3.0D is currently showing 30 mpg, I'd like to see where these big comfy diesels that will do 55 mpg are. show me a really big comfy petrol car that will do 55 + mpg at a nice speed on the motorway and 40 mpg around town, school run, shopping etc and I'm sold, but I suspect there isn't anything yet.
I'd like to know all the journeys you lot are doing that you can use all these excess's of power on a day to day basis......... my journeys of being stuck behind others on windy rural roads, or in towns littered with cameras mean fun driving is somewhat limited.
BMW 520D.
BMW 320D.
Audi A4 2.0TDI
Audi A5 2.0TDI
Audi A6 2.0TDI
ORD said:
austinsmirk said:
don't know why everyone is also worrying about diesel reliability, I bet I've had them for 20 some years now with no bother and I also usually have two cars at once....... i.e the derv for boring stuff and something fun on the side.
show me a really big comfy petrol car that will do 55 + mpg at a nice speed on the motorway and 40 mpg around town, school run, shopping etc and I'm sold, but I suspect there isn't anything yet.
I'd like to know all the journeys you lot are doing that you can use all these excess's of power on a day to day basis......... my journeys of being stuck behind others on windy rural roads, or in towns littered with cameras mean fun driving is somewhat limited.
You don't have to be stuck behind anything if you've got enough power show me a really big comfy petrol car that will do 55 + mpg at a nice speed on the motorway and 40 mpg around town, school run, shopping etc and I'm sold, but I suspect there isn't anything yet.
I'd like to know all the journeys you lot are doing that you can use all these excess's of power on a day to day basis......... my journeys of being stuck behind others on windy rural roads, or in towns littered with cameras mean fun driving is somewhat limited.
In seriousness, nobody is denying that diesels are more fuel efficient. My point is that diesel should not, despite that efficiency, work out cheaper than petrol. The environmental damage needs to be priced in such that nobody would run a diesel car unless they absolutely have to. It's bonkers not to capture the external costs and have people merrily knackering their local environment to save money.
As has been pointed out - if petrol is so clean try sitting in a garage for 20 mins with a petrol car and the engine running. Now multiply that by 20million or so and have that being pumped into the atmosphere.
daemon said:
Fastdruid said:
heebeegeetee said:
Fastdruid said:
Both stank if you had the windows open.
Stank of what? If they stank of diesel i'm surprised you didnt take them back, because they clearly shouldnt and dont.
Unless of course its a good story for the internet?
Health and Safety Executive said:
What are diesel engine exhaust emissions?
Diesel engine exhaust emissions (commonly known as ‘diesel fumes’) are a mixture of gases, vapours, liquid aerosols and substances made up of particles.
Diesel engine exhaust emissions (commonly known as ‘diesel fumes’) are a mixture of gases, vapours, liquid aerosols and substances made up of particles.
Fastdruid said:
heebeegeetee said:
Fastdruid said:
Diesel fumes. Wtf else would they stink of?
How on earth do you suppose you're able to smell diesel from inside the car? Where's it coming from?Let me make it simple for you.
The engine is running (hard to miss really with the noise).
The exhaust is belching diesel fumes.
The window is open.
The fumes enter the window.
It stinks.
I've even noticed the stench without the windows open through the a/c. I presume that the wind had to be in the right (wrong!) direction for that to happen though.
Secondly, the exhaust is at the rear of the car - you're driving along with the windows down and the fumes come out of the exhaust and work their way round and back into the car when you're doing say, 60MPH?
Neat trick.
daemon said:
Fastdruid said:
heebeegeetee said:
Fastdruid said:
Diesel fumes. Wtf else would they stink of?
How on earth do you suppose you're able to smell diesel from inside the car? Where's it coming from?Let me make it simple for you.
The engine is running (hard to miss really with the noise).
The exhaust is belching diesel fumes.
The window is open.
The fumes enter the window.
It stinks.
I've even noticed the stench without the windows open through the a/c. I presume that the wind had to be in the right (wrong!) direction for that to happen though.
Secondly, the exhaust is at the rear of the car - you're driving along with the windows down and the fumes come out of the exhaust and work their way round and back into the car when you're doing say, 60MPH?
Neat trick.
Did I say the smell of diesel? No. Diesel fumes which for everyone else apart from it appears you and heebeegeetee is what comes out of the exhaust of a diesel.
As for the speed, did I mention 60mph? Did I mention it at all anywhere? No. For the record this was because it was f**king hot and had the windows open while stationary and then crawling to the end of the road. to let the heat out while the aircon was cooling down. Something I very quickly stopped doing due to the stench and just suffered the heat.
Fastdruid said:
WTF else does it pump out then? Fairy dust and angel wings?
Did I say the smell of diesel? No. Diesel fumes which for everyone else apart from it appears you and heebeegeetee is what comes out of the exhaust of a diesel.
As for the speed, did I mention 60mph? Did I mention it at all anywhere? No. For the record this was because it was f**king hot and had the windows open while stationary and then crawling to the end of the road. to let the heat out while the aircon was cooling down. Something I very quickly stopped doing due to the stench and just suffered the heat.
What manufacturer is making cars that drawers exhaust gases into the cabin? If it was the petrol version and being driven just after start up the cats wouldn't be working and you'd be getting carbon monoxide into the cabin without realising. But either way I reckon the opportunities for litigation if occupants were being gassed by their own car would be enormous, and the manufacturers go to huge lengths to avoid such things happening.Did I say the smell of diesel? No. Diesel fumes which for everyone else apart from it appears you and heebeegeetee is what comes out of the exhaust of a diesel.
As for the speed, did I mention 60mph? Did I mention it at all anywhere? No. For the record this was because it was f**king hot and had the windows open while stationary and then crawling to the end of the road. to let the heat out while the aircon was cooling down. Something I very quickly stopped doing due to the stench and just suffered the heat.
I don't know how you guys do it - as car enthusiasts, how do so many of you guys manage to acquire so many bad or broken vehicles? I've never had exhaust gases in my own car from my own car in my life!
I dunno, unless maybe way back in the poverty of yoof I had some banger with a broken exhaust, but if it ever happened it's been long forgotten. And I haven't had a diesel with a short rev band since 1999 either.
The things you guys complain about, and then determine that that's how all diesels are... while the rest of us suffer from no such things... I genuinely don't know what to make of it.
daemon said:
Unless you're going to be a prick and just pass everyone down the middle, then you ARE going to be stuck behind everyone else.
As has been pointed out - if petrol is so clean try sitting in a garage for 20 mins with a petrol car and the engine running. Now multiply that by 20million or so and have that being pumped into the atmosphere.
Nobody is saying petrol is clean. It's a matter of degree, obviously. Not a hard point to graspAs has been pointed out - if petrol is so clean try sitting in a garage for 20 mins with a petrol car and the engine running. Now multiply that by 20million or so and have that being pumped into the atmosphere.
heebeegeetee said:
What manufacturer is making cars that drawers exhaust gases into the cabin? If it was the petrol version and being driven just after start up the cats wouldn't be working and you'd be getting carbon monoxide into the cabin without realising. But either way I reckon the opportunities for litigation if occupants were being gassed by their own car would be enormous, and the manufacturers go to huge lengths to avoid such things happening.
I don't know how you guys do it - as car enthusiasts, how do so many of you guys manage to acquire so many bad or broken vehicles? I've never had exhaust gases in my own car from my own car in my life!
I dunno, unless maybe way back in the poverty of yoof I had some banger with a broken exhaust, but if it ever happened it's been long forgotten. And I haven't had a diesel with a short rev band since 1999 either.
The things you guys complain about, and then determine that that's how all diesels are... while the rest of us suffer from no such things... I genuinely don't know what to make of it.
I think you may have missed his point about having the windows down on a hot day - I could never smell the fumes on the move in the 330d, but in traffic and on first start-up it smelled pretty bad. It had had the swirl flaps removed to stop them being ingested, so this may have had an effect - however I don't recall ever having to remove part of a petrol engine to stop it from blowing itself up, so I'd say that point was fairly moot. Whilst this may be a mainly BMW problem, the number of people deleting EGR Valves and DPF's on other brands makes me suspect BMW are not alone. I don't know how you guys do it - as car enthusiasts, how do so many of you guys manage to acquire so many bad or broken vehicles? I've never had exhaust gases in my own car from my own car in my life!
I dunno, unless maybe way back in the poverty of yoof I had some banger with a broken exhaust, but if it ever happened it's been long forgotten. And I haven't had a diesel with a short rev band since 1999 either.
The things you guys complain about, and then determine that that's how all diesels are... while the rest of us suffer from no such things... I genuinely don't know what to make of it.
Interesting you mention not having had a short rev band, as I don't think a diesel exists that goes much past 5000 whilst still producing anything useable? For eg, the 330d was fairly useless below about 1750 rpm, if the turbo wasn't going you could forget swift progress, you needed a lower gear. Then it was all out of ideas at 4500. So what, 2750 rpm in total? Whereas the 125i will pick up easily from 2000, then flies all the way to 7000. That's almost double the useable rev range of the old dag dag. With a much nicer noise, less vibration and economy numbers that are damned close.
As I said, best move I ever made. Only way I'd go back is if my mileage skyrocketed to 30k+.
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