Is the diesel backlash about to start?
Discussion
Mr2Mike said:
It's hardly a stereotype or prejudice, it's a simple fact. Diesel stinks and when you get it on your hands it takes a lot of scrubbing to get rid of the smell.
Luckily your chances (statistically speaking) are lower of getting diesel on your hands because you will be visiting the pump a lot less...but when you fill up your petrol car, you never need to wear gloves.....
Diesel is a filthy, dirty, smelly and caronogenic fuel. Sure, petrol gives out nasties too, but the stuff coming out of the exhaust never makes me want to heave as the diesel fumes do whenever I walk into town. You've only got to look at the problems they have in Paris these days with air quality, due to the French moving almost totally to diesel cars 20 years or so ago....
I had one diesel car for 6 years and loved the torque but haven't regretted the move back to a basic n/a petrol car one bit. There's less to go wrong, the car feels lighter and less nose heavy and If I need acceleration, I just change down a gear or two, which is hardly a chore when driving.
Diesel is a filthy, dirty, smelly and caronogenic fuel. Sure, petrol gives out nasties too, but the stuff coming out of the exhaust never makes me want to heave as the diesel fumes do whenever I walk into town. You've only got to look at the problems they have in Paris these days with air quality, due to the French moving almost totally to diesel cars 20 years or so ago....
I had one diesel car for 6 years and loved the torque but haven't regretted the move back to a basic n/a petrol car one bit. There's less to go wrong, the car feels lighter and less nose heavy and If I need acceleration, I just change down a gear or two, which is hardly a chore when driving.
GreenArrow said:
..but when you fill up your petrol car, you never need to wear gloves.....
Diesel is a filthy, dirty, smelly and caronogenic fuel. Sure, petrol gives out nasties too, but the stuff coming out of the exhaust never makes me want to heave as the diesel fumes do whenever I walk into town. You've only got to look at the problems they have in Paris these days with air quality, due to the French moving almost totally to diesel cars 20 years or so ago....
I had one diesel car for 6 years and loved the torque but haven't regretted the move back to a basic n/a petrol car one bit. There's less to go wrong, the car feels lighter and less nose heavy and If I need acceleration, I just change down a gear or two, which is hardly a chore when driving.
Yup.Diesel is a filthy, dirty, smelly and caronogenic fuel. Sure, petrol gives out nasties too, but the stuff coming out of the exhaust never makes me want to heave as the diesel fumes do whenever I walk into town. You've only got to look at the problems they have in Paris these days with air quality, due to the French moving almost totally to diesel cars 20 years or so ago....
I had one diesel car for 6 years and loved the torque but haven't regretted the move back to a basic n/a petrol car one bit. There's less to go wrong, the car feels lighter and less nose heavy and If I need acceleration, I just change down a gear or two, which is hardly a chore when driving.
Totally agree.
I dont really see why people keep repeating these "problems" with diesel fuel.
Anyone driving a diesel is realistically doing so because they believe its saving them money.
That is less likely to be true if you're comparing the latest diesels with the latest petrols and also if you're only doing average miles.
Its also much less likely to be true now than 5 years ago.
Its is also likely to be even less viable in 5 years time.
THATS the reality of the situation - droning on about "oh oh i dont like the smell of it" or "oh i nearly get wrecked when i drive a diesel because i havent the wit to be in the right gear" is really not particularly relevant for those who are driving diesels because they ARE getting big economy from it.
As that situation swings away from diesels and towards hybrids / petrols then diesel car usage will drop.
As has been said - i dont particularly care if my car is powered by liquidised kittens under the bonnet, its about the right car to suit my needs, not the wrong car that suits someone elses perceptions.
Anyone driving a diesel is realistically doing so because they believe its saving them money.
That is less likely to be true if you're comparing the latest diesels with the latest petrols and also if you're only doing average miles.
Its also much less likely to be true now than 5 years ago.
Its is also likely to be even less viable in 5 years time.
THATS the reality of the situation - droning on about "oh oh i dont like the smell of it" or "oh i nearly get wrecked when i drive a diesel because i havent the wit to be in the right gear" is really not particularly relevant for those who are driving diesels because they ARE getting big economy from it.
As that situation swings away from diesels and towards hybrids / petrols then diesel car usage will drop.
As has been said - i dont particularly care if my car is powered by liquidised kittens under the bonnet, its about the right car to suit my needs, not the wrong car that suits someone elses perceptions.
Edited by daemon on Saturday 23 August 13:53
I've been crunching a few numbers, looking at Skoda Superbs as the next family runabout for the next ten years, taking into account used cost, real mpg based on 10k miles p/a, tax & zero value after 10 years. Doesn't include servicing but there's not a great deal of difference between derv & petrol servicing costs.
1.4 TSi...£202 per month
0-60 10.6
vs.
1.6 TDi...£205 per month
0-60 12.6
1.8 TSi...£264 per month
0-60 8.7
Vs.
2.0 TDi...£236 per month (170bhp)
0-60 8.7
In this case it'd appear that there's not a great deal in it so it all depends on what you prefer and what the Govt. decides to do with fuel prices and tax bands in the future...
In my humble opinion, if they drop the tax on petrol cars, the fuel prices will mysteriously rise to take it into account.
1.4 TSi...£202 per month
0-60 10.6
vs.
1.6 TDi...£205 per month
0-60 12.6
1.8 TSi...£264 per month
0-60 8.7
Vs.
2.0 TDi...£236 per month (170bhp)
0-60 8.7
In this case it'd appear that there's not a great deal in it so it all depends on what you prefer and what the Govt. decides to do with fuel prices and tax bands in the future...
In my humble opinion, if they drop the tax on petrol cars, the fuel prices will mysteriously rise to take it into account.
daemon said:
Clearly his point was that because you fill less often you're less likely to get fuel over you.
Spilling petrol over your suit or shoes is hardly ideal either.
Petrol spills is your own fault, getting diesel on hands thanks the dirty handle is a feature the previous people leave for you and can't really be avoided.... Hence gloves.Spilling petrol over your suit or shoes is hardly ideal either.
I abhor inhaling vehicle fumes, especially diesel. I have noticed a lot of "older" diesels smoking like motherf
kers recently. When I say "older" I mean pre-2010/pre-DPF. Yesterday I had the misfortune of being stuck behind a 2007 diesel Jaguar estate. Under acceleration... the exhaust smoked like Thomas the Tank Engine ... thankfully I switched the air-recirculation on before the cloud reached my car!
Death to the CO2 CULT. Instead of wasting money on CO2 they should have focused on carcinogens and other deadly chemicals in vehicle exhaust!
kers recently. When I say "older" I mean pre-2010/pre-DPF. Yesterday I had the misfortune of being stuck behind a 2007 diesel Jaguar estate. Under acceleration... the exhaust smoked like Thomas the Tank Engine ... thankfully I switched the air-recirculation on before the cloud reached my car!Death to the CO2 CULT. Instead of wasting money on CO2 they should have focused on carcinogens and other deadly chemicals in vehicle exhaust!
JonnyVTEC said:
Petrol spills is your own fault, getting diesel on hands thanks the dirty handle is a feature the previous people leave for you and can't really be avoided.... Hence gloves.
I think most places have twigged they need to give the pump handles a clean regularly. In this last year / 24,000 miles i've come across a dirty pump handle once, and i simply havent went back there since.It certainly didnt ruin my life forever as some people seem to imply it does.
Like the guy in the car park who almost had to cover his ears and run away because the diesel car going past was so noisy.
Or the guy who nearly died at a roundabout because the turbo lag was so bad on the diesel he was in.
And we have the guy who nearly choked to death in the diesel car he was driving because all the "diesel fumes" came round from the exhaust and sneaked into the cabin.
Laughable
Genuinely Laughable.
You people must live your lives wrapped in f
king cotton wool if these are such "big problems"Really - we get it. You've an irrational dislike for diesels. The ok, but enough of the dumb-assed reasons.
Edited by daemon on Saturday 23 August 17:23
Edited by daemon on Saturday 23 August 17:24
Edited by daemon on Saturday 23 August 17:33
I'm laughing at the constant references to the carcinogenity of diesel, by people who pump benzene into their cars. It's just laughable.
The reason diesel fumes have been classified as carcinogenic is from studies involving occupational workers.
>>Most of the recent evidence comes from studies looking at cancer rates amongst populations that have high levels of exposure to diesel fumes – for example, miners, railroad workers and truckers. <<
>>“The data we have relate to so-called ‘occupational exposure’”, says Phillips, “in other words, people whose jobs bring them into regular contact with high levels of diesel fumes. These people are much easier to study, because their exposure is so strong, and effects are easier to spot. But as a result, it’s harder to generalise as to how this affects the rest of us.”<<
http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2012/06/14...
The supreme irony is that there can be no similar studies with petrol engines, because petrol is just too dangerous a fuel to use in similar circumstances. There is the much greater combustibilty of the raw fuel, the inefficency of fuel meaning greater quantites are needed for the same work, the fact that petrol fumes contain high levels of carbon monoxide, so the moment catalytic equipment stops working the workers are in mortal danger - and so on.
The only reason diesel is able to be used in situations such as underground, with workers spending decades working with diesel powered engines - is because unlike pterol diesel is safe enough to be used in such circumstances.
However, none of this matters - the argument is lost because sources such as the Daily mail hold too much sway, and it's when you follow debates such as the diesel one that you realise just how much sway there is to be had.
It really is just laughable.
The reason diesel fumes have been classified as carcinogenic is from studies involving occupational workers.
>>Most of the recent evidence comes from studies looking at cancer rates amongst populations that have high levels of exposure to diesel fumes – for example, miners, railroad workers and truckers. <<
>>“The data we have relate to so-called ‘occupational exposure’”, says Phillips, “in other words, people whose jobs bring them into regular contact with high levels of diesel fumes. These people are much easier to study, because their exposure is so strong, and effects are easier to spot. But as a result, it’s harder to generalise as to how this affects the rest of us.”<<
http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2012/06/14...
The supreme irony is that there can be no similar studies with petrol engines, because petrol is just too dangerous a fuel to use in similar circumstances. There is the much greater combustibilty of the raw fuel, the inefficency of fuel meaning greater quantites are needed for the same work, the fact that petrol fumes contain high levels of carbon monoxide, so the moment catalytic equipment stops working the workers are in mortal danger - and so on.
The only reason diesel is able to be used in situations such as underground, with workers spending decades working with diesel powered engines - is because unlike pterol diesel is safe enough to be used in such circumstances.
However, none of this matters - the argument is lost because sources such as the Daily mail hold too much sway, and it's when you follow debates such as the diesel one that you realise just how much sway there is to be had.
It really is just laughable.
RedAlfa said:
I abhor inhaling vehicle fumes, especially diesel. I have noticed a lot of "older" diesels smoking like motherfkers recently. When I say "older" I mean pre-2010/pre-DPF. Yesterday I had the misfortune of being stuck behind a 2007 diesel Jaguar estate. Under acceleration... the exhaust smoked like Thomas the Tank Engine ... thankfully I switched the air-recirculation on before the cloud reached my car!
Death to the CO2 CULT. Instead of wasting money on CO2 they should have focused on carcinogens and other deadly chemicals in vehicle exhaust!
+1 to this if you've got your windows down and fresh air coming from outside through heaters your defo going to be getting a bit of nasties from the exhaust. I always have my fan on re circ in traffic kers recently. When I say "older" I mean pre-2010/pre-DPF. Yesterday I had the misfortune of being stuck behind a 2007 diesel Jaguar estate. Under acceleration... the exhaust smoked like Thomas the Tank Engine ... thankfully I switched the air-recirculation on before the cloud reached my car!Death to the CO2 CULT. Instead of wasting money on CO2 they should have focused on carcinogens and other deadly chemicals in vehicle exhaust!
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