PH thoughts on this 'Advanced' driver's dashcam vids?

PH thoughts on this 'Advanced' driver's dashcam vids?

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25NAD90TUL

Original Poster:

666 posts

130 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
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StressedDave said:
I didn't miss it; what you appear to have missed however is that, other than your knowledge that Dom is a local Chairman, there's no reference to his YouTube channel being anything other than personal.
The videos were, as you know, linked to via a thread on a public website where Doms' signature states his IAM status.

eta: fwiw Dom has emerged out of this ok, other members are however, just digging themselves a deeper hole.

Edited by 25NAD90TUL on Thursday 21st August 11:51

StressedDave

839 posts

261 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
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25NAD90TUL said:
They are aware of the issue with this private website and are keen to do something about IAM senior members flying the IAM flag there but unfortunately they don't presently know what they can do about it.
On this, I am in complete agreement with you. I don't like the idea of using some 'qualification' as a means of bolstering the worth of my opinion. If anything I post is considered sound then so be it, but suggesting that my posting is sound because I can put the fact that I'm a member of a driving organisation as a signature and anyone without a similar signature can't have as valid an opinion as me.

Mind you, I'm not a member of either IAM or RoADAR, so my signature would be pretty blank laugh

johnao

667 posts

242 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
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25NAD90TUL said:
... Another example of 'sliminess'... [when referring to another member's posting]

[and then said]... I downloaded the videos and sent them to Chiswick along with a link to this thread.
Now that really is slimy.

martine

67 posts

210 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
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25NAD90UTL's view of the IAM and ADUK is a personal view.

My personal view of ADUK is somewhat different...

ADUK has a wealth of info, witty discussion, debate and yes occasionally downright argument - about all things 'advanced'. Some contributors are IAM members but many are not and have come to AD via a different route. There are ROSPA members, HPC members, serving police, retired police, driving instructors and loads just with an interest in driving and how to improve.

Occasionally a new member starts posting on ADUK and they seem to have an 'agenda'. I wouldn't accuse them of being classic 'trolls' (just arguing for the sake) but they seem to want to push their own thoughts on how others should behave and post and drive. When asked to justify their opinions (usually politely at the start!) they sometimes take offence and start making all sorts of accusations and then sometimes go off in a huff. I've been involved in ADUK for several years and in all that time I can think of 2 maybe 3 such members.

In general ADUK threads are pretty polite and as someone said, one probable reason is the real possibility of meeting face-to-face with your internet adversary at an ADUK driving day.

It is certainly true that like a lot of specialist internet forums, ADUK threads can sometimes be extremely detailed and degenerate into arguments between experts that leaves the newcomer behind.

It is also true to say the simplest of driving questions will be answered with respect and care and newcomers are welcomed.

I cannot recommend ADUK enough - if you introduce yourself, post politely and are prepared to 'listen' as well as 'speak' I believe you will find a fascinating mixture of views, ideas, approaches and techniques on the wonderful subject of driving on the road.

As you may have guessed, I am one of the 'admins' on ADUK and in all the time I've been a member (since 2005) it has developed my driving no-end, I've met some lovely people and it's all free (inc. the driving days).

25NAD90TUL

Original Poster:

666 posts

130 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
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martine said:
edited:

25NAD90UTL's view of the IAM and ADUK is a personal view.

My personal view of ADUK is somewhat different...

ADUK has a wealth of info, witty discussion, debate and yes occasionally downright argument - about all things 'advanced'. Some contributors are IAM members but many are not and have come to AD via a different route. There are ROSPA members, HPC members, serving police, retired police, driving instructors and loads just with an interest in driving and how to improve.

I cannot recommend ADUK enough

As you may have guessed, I am one of the 'admins' on ADUK and in all the time I've been a member (since 2005) it has developed my driving no-end, I've met some lovely people and it's all free (inc. the driving days).
Yes Martin thanks, we know all this.

A very positive picture painted, and a valuable advertising opportunity taken, and all true, you haven't acknowledged what I've said about a lot of it being off-putting to newcomers though, considering that a lot of current members have expressed that view in public posts there, but it's what I expect.

You 'can't recommend ADUK enough' imo it's the IAM that you don't recommend enough.

You have many, many more words to say about ADUK than you do about IAM, yet it is your IAM status displayed in your signatures, not your ADUK status. I remember you pushing ADUK in the local group newsletter, to the point that a member had written in complaining about IAM funds being used to push ADUK, you cared nothing for that IAM members' concerns, (not me I hasten to add) but you just laughed about it at ADUK, good on you really I guess. I don't rejoin just for the purpose of posting vitriol, and it would be that way if I were to.

Your loyalty to ADUK far outweighs your IAM loyalties. An IAM senior observer pushing a website not recognised by any of the advanced driving bodies, instead of the IAM itself.

The only trouble with it is the IAM is desperate for an insight into how it's image can be improved, they are guilty of burying their heads in the sand at times, very much so.

Anyway Martin, nice talking to you again, however the other day I cared, today I couldn't care less. Where you get me very wrong though is that I actually DO like the IAM very much in theory. I still drive as if every day was test day when I'm on-road, I suppose that's all that matters really.

There's no point in my discussing this further, you're not going to change and neither am I.

Best wishes. (No sarcasm there, genuine best wishes)

25NAD90TUL

Original Poster:

666 posts

130 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
25NAD90TUL said:
Yes Martin thanks, we know all this.

A very positive picture painted, and a valuable advertising opportunity taken, and all true, you haven't acknowledged what I've said about a lot of it being off-putting to newcomers though, considering that a lot of current members have expressed that view in public posts there, but it's what I expect.

You 'can't recommend ADUK enough' imo it's the IAM that you don't recommend enough.

You have many, many more words to say about ADUK than you do about IAM, yet it is your IAM status displayed in your signatures, not your ADUK status. I remember you pushing ADUK in the local group newsletter, to the point that a member had written in complaining about IAM funds being used to push ADUK, you cared nothing for that IAM members' concerns, (not me I hasten to add) but you just laughed about it at ADUK, good on you really I guess. I don't rejoin just for the purpose of posting vitriol, and it would be that way if I were to.

Your loyalty to ADUK far outweighs your IAM loyalties. An IAM senior observer pushing a website not recognised by any of the advanced driving bodies, instead of the IAM itself.

The only trouble with it is the IAM is desperate for an insight into how it's image can be improved, they are guilty of burying their heads in the sand at times, very much so.

Anyway Martin, nice talking to you again, however the other day I cared, today I couldn't care less. Where you get me very wrong though is that I actually DO like the IAM very much in theory. I still drive as if every day was test day when I'm on-road, I suppose that's all that matters really.

There's no point in my discussing this further, you're not going to change and neither am I.

Best wishes. (No sarcasm there, genuine best wishes)
eta: this whole thread really was about Dom's videos, and he emerged from it ok I'm glad to say, I respected him for that, so all's well that ends well really.

delboy735

1,656 posts

201 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
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Got bored three pages in. Here's my take on that sort of manoeuvre though.
One of my best friends is a driving instructor and also a driving test examiner. He also has a driveway off a very busy road. I've observed his action, and it always works.
Quite simply he indicates left and slows right down BEFORE his driveway, thus slowing traffic down behind him, just before his drive, he pops his hazard lights on....drivers behind now no something is about to happen, then he pops hazards off, manoeuvres towards centre of road whilst keeping left indicator on, cars behind have now stopped ( the hazards pre-empted this ), he is then able to reverse quickly onto his drive with no hassle from anybody, and none caused.
I've seen him do this many times, and it appears to work.
Don't know if it's the IAM way, but it is his way, and I also do the same thing. Sometimes copying isn't a bad thing smile

martine

67 posts

210 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
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25NAD90TUL said:
A very positive picture painted, and a valuable advertising opportunity taken, and all true...
I'm not 'advertising' ADUK - I have nothing to gain financially - just trying to put the picture straight (in my view).

25NAD90TUL said:
...you haven't acknowledged what I've said about a lot of it being off-putting to newcomers though, considering that a lot of current members have expressed that view in public posts there, but it's what I expect.
'a lot being off-putting' and 'a lot of current members'? How do you know this? There is no way I know of objectively measuring how many or few, members or prospective members are 'put off' or not. There are definitely some people who don't like the forum and have decided it's not for them, but there are loads of people who regularly contribute and have done so for many years.

25NAD90TUL said:
You 'can't recommend ADUK enough' imo it's the IAM that you don't recommend enough.
What makes you think I don't recommend the IAM 'enough'? I am almost evangelistic about the IAM to anyone who'll listen (and quite a few who won't!) but I am also critical of it and being on the 'inside' I believe I have a right to my view.

25NAD90TUL said:
You have many, many more words to say about ADUK than you do about IAM, yet it is your IAM status displayed in your signatures, not your ADUK status.
My ADUK 'status' as you call it, consists of being one of three forum admins - do you really expect me to put that in my ADUK signature?

25NAD90TUL said:
I remember you pushing ADUK in the local group newsletter...
You are mistaking me for another ADUK and Bristol IAM member actually
25NAD90TUL said:
...to the point that a member had written in complaining about IAM funds being used to push ADUK, you cared nothing for that IAM members' concerns,
A couple of group members wrote to the editor of the newsletter expressing their concern that anyone should want to do anything more to develop their driving than is provided by the IAM. The author and many others thought that was a ridiculous and unhealthy view. They didn't mention funds (how was I 'spending funds' to push ADUK anyway?) This to me and many others showed the narrow-mindedness of some IAM members who consider the IAM to be the ONLY way to drive well.

25NAD90TUL said:
Your loyalty to ADUK far outweighs your IAM loyalties. An IAM senior observer pushing a website not recognised by any of the advanced driving bodies, instead of the IAM itself.
Why on earth do you say that? I spend much, much more time on IAM matters - promoting, observing, meeting, training. I am a trustee and committee member, I help run the theory seminars all Bristol group associates get as part of their advanced course. I help train new observers. I even help collate the newsletter - sometimes. You really do have a peculiar (and wrong) view of my involvement with both the IAM and ADUK.

To close I would like to make you aware of 2 important facts about the IAM and their view of the Bristol group and perhaps me...

Paul Woozley (IAM Membership Manager) and Pat Doughty (Operations Director) have both stated they see the Bristol group as forward-thinking and well run. Secondly, I was recently personally invited by IAM HQ to a 3 day 'standards workshop' to discuss the future direction on important issues such as: what should be taught, what should be tested etc. I was one of only 20 people in the UK who were invited, expenses paid, to this workshop.

Does this sound like the IAM are in any way unhappy with my involvement with ADUK?

Laser Sag

2,860 posts

242 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
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delboy735 said:
Got bored three pages in. Here's my take on that sort of manoeuvre though.
One of my best friends is a driving instructor and also a driving test examiner. He also has a driveway off a very busy road. I've observed his action, and it always works.
Quite simply he indicates left and slows right down BEFORE his driveway, thus slowing traffic down behind him, just before his drive, he pops his hazard lights on....drivers behind now no something is about to happen, then he pops hazards off, manoeuvres towards centre of road whilst keeping left indicator on, cars behind have now stopped ( the hazards pre-empted this ), he is then able to reverse quickly onto his drive with no hassle from anybody, and none caused.
I've seen him do this many times, and it appears to work.
Don't know if it's the IAM way, but it is his way, and I also do the same thing. Sometimes copying isn't a bad thing smile
Thats basically what I suggested a couple of pages back, bit worryoing that I might have been on the right track laugh

FreeLitres

6,039 posts

176 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
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Great! So it turns out Dom is an exceptional driver and all is forgiven.

Can I see the vids now?

Laser Sag

2,860 posts

242 months

Friday 22nd August 2014
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FreeLitres said:
Great! So it turns out Dom is an exceptional driver and all is forgiven.

Can I see the vids now?
Possibly but I get the feeling from the rest of this thread that the IAM or ADUK might have to kill you once you had seen them laugh

25NAD90TUL

Original Poster:

666 posts

130 months

Friday 22nd August 2014
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I'm sure Bristol group IAM is everything Martine says it is.

ADUK should be banned from the internet period.

IAM members should be banned from stating their IAM status there at the very least.

Although they mostly say 'any views expressed are those of my own' or something similar, the IAM signature negates this.

When these views are seen in the same light as posts advocating H&T and hand-held mobile phone use, speeding and other matters sometimes even contrary to the HC etc, the views expressed ARE taken to be IAM people's views by the majority of readers perhaps not 'in the know'.

The view of a senior IAM member is the view of a senior IAM member, whether he chooses the 'any views expressed' signature or not.

Posts about the content being off-putting to newcomers are commonplace within the public boards.

My points about the nature of the place are underlined by the fact that Martine came into this thread to defend the (erroneous) actions of an ADUK member. Had it been a non-member he wouldn't have.

ADUK is giving the IAM and RoADAR a bad name, period. IAM people should not be admin there, or should be doing it without any mention of them being involved with IAM.

Be an internet driving clique by all means, just leave them out of it.

As stressed has said, don't add weight to posts there that are not compliant with the IAM method, underscored with the IAM status thing, surely you can see the failing in this Martin?

Having said all that, ADUK's probably glad of all this publicity. Doh!

eta:
martine said:
how was I 'spending funds' to push ADUK anyway?)
Do IAM funds not pay for the local group newsletter then?

You were right about the funds issue being raised in letters to the newsletter though, that point was raised IIRC on the IAM forum by several members when this subject was brought up.

Edited by 25NAD90TUL on Friday 22 August 14:04

neil1jnr

1,460 posts

154 months

Friday 22nd August 2014
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People actually record 'bad driving' as a hobby?

tts

25NAD90TUL

Original Poster:

666 posts

130 months

Friday 22nd August 2014
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neil1jnr said:
People actually record 'bad driving' as a hobby?

tts
In this instance, as in many examples of that type of video, it was the person with the camera who was driving badly, then posting the video to demonstrate the other drivers' failings, which he had caused with a dodgy manouvre. This was further aggravated by the fact that the camera man was an IAM advanced driver and local IAM group chairman.

eta: And also a member of Advanced Driving UK.

Edited by 25NAD90TUL on Friday 22 August 12:29

neil1jnr

1,460 posts

154 months

Friday 22nd August 2014
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P1H said:
I'd normally rise above it, but I can't today. How can someone genuinely care enough about that completely mundane non-event to upload it on to youtube, it blows my mind.
hahahahaha blows mine too

martine

67 posts

210 months

Friday 22nd August 2014
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25NAD90TUL

Crikey - your suggesting lots of 'banning'!

You are sooo wrong in much that you say in the last post I really don't know where to begin...I also notice you didn't respond to my questions (again) so on that basis I give up and I hope if there is anyone else still reading this thread (well done for persevence by the way!) they can make their own judgement about me, you, ADUK and the IAM.

Edited by martine on Friday 22 August 19:04

croggers

215 posts

186 months

Friday 22nd August 2014
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delboy735 said:
Got bored three pages in. Here's my take on that sort of manoeuvre though.
One of my best friends is a driving instructor and also a driving test examiner. He also has a driveway off a very busy road. I've observed his action, and it always works.
Quite simply he indicates left and slows right down BEFORE his driveway, thus slowing traffic down behind him, just before his drive, he pops his hazard lights on....drivers behind now no something is about to happen, then he pops hazards off, manoeuvres towards centre of road whilst keeping left indicator on, cars behind have now stopped ( the hazards pre-empted this ), he is then able to reverse quickly onto his drive with no hassle from anybody, and none caused.
I've seen him do this many times, and it appears to work.
Don't know if it's the IAM way, but it is his way, and I also do the same thing. Sometimes copying isn't a bad thing smile
You cannot be a driving instructor and examiner at the same time in the UK. Can only do one, due to the conflict of interest.

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Friday 22nd August 2014
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Surely the easy way around this is to drive forwards into the drive.
Reverse out when the road is clear

whistle

Edited by saaby93 on Friday 22 August 22:04

25NAD90TUL

Original Poster:

666 posts

130 months

Friday 22nd August 2014
quotequote all
martine said:
25NAD90TUL

Crikey - your suggesting lots of 'banning'!

You are sooo wrong in much that you say in the last post I really don't know where to begin...I also notice you didn't respond to my questions (again) so on that basis I give up and I hope if there is anyone else still reading this thread (well done for persevence by the way!) they can make their own judgement about me, you, ADUK and the IAM.

Edited by martine on Friday 22 August 19:04
I'd have been happy to leave all this two and a half pages ago, when dom made his comment.

But you brought brought in the big 'I'm an admin at ADUK' guns and carried it on.

I know nothing of your personal life, IAM or ADUK workload, so can't answer your questions, I can only comment on how it looks to an outsider.

We know I don't agree with ADUK. We know you are an admin there and don't agree with me.

I'd much rather have left it where it was on tuesday after dom commented.

Now it's just you and I arguing about the validity of ADUK.

Neither of us is going to gain much ground with this.

Let's agree to differ, and fwiw, I secretly admire your loyalty and tenacity, ok so ADUK isn't for me, but that's by the by and I'm sure is not viewed as any loss by you or anyone else there.

Nor is IAM currently.

Let people make their own mind up as you say.

I'm sure that we both acknowledge the fact that advanced driving has a poor image, for whatever reasons and I'm sure we'd both like that to change, so we have a common aim, just that our views on the causes differ.

As long as we are both safe and responsible on-road does any of this matter? Probably not I'm guessing.

Shall we leave it at that now?

Best wishes.


anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 22nd August 2014
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This thread is doing nothing to persuade me that "Advanced Drivers" aren't just a bunch of weirdos...
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