£20k - M3 or Cayman S?
Discussion
Welshbeef said:
How about getting a warranty quote if its high then you know how much risk they are building into the premium.
Darn I should stop reading these great what car threads as these are all cars on my would like to own list - even a Cayman but a 911 first.
Most warranty companies have dodged these large claims.Darn I should stop reading these great what car threads as these are all cars on my would like to own list - even a Cayman but a 911 first.
Read the Hartech information thoroughly including the responses he has posted on here, rather than listening to people on here who have not owned or researched one properly.
In summary (and from memory), the conclusion (from Hartech, who have extensively researched the problem) seems to be that there is a cooling problem that causes the oil to bubble on the cylinder walls.
Specifically, if after hard driving you stop suddenly at say lights, then boot it really hard away, the cooling system has slowed and for a split second the cylinder wall overheats causing the oil to bubble and the piston to scrape the cylinder wall.
Answer, bear this in mind and don't boot away from the lights.
Hartech seem to think the auto boxes are worst effected, possibly because they pull away sometimes in 2nd gear.
kambites said:
Did the M3 not suffer from Vanos failures then?
I know the rear sub-frame is a common failure, but I think that's only ~£1-2k?
I think that was the E46 M3. Not the E9x.I know the rear sub-frame is a common failure, but I think that's only ~£1-2k?
I have heard of M3s going bang. But not on the same scale as Gen1 Caymans.
I did take a look at OPC warranty but aside from costing a huge amount of money people were complaining that Porsche would not cover the engine failures on the Cayman if the cars had been over revved in the past. So if a previous owner has mis-shifted then you're screwed.
CarAbuser said:
I think that was the E46 M3. Not the E9x.
I have heard of M3s going bang. But not on the same scale as Gen1 Caymans.
I did take a look at OPC warranty but aside from costing a huge amount of money people were complaining that Porsche would not cover the engine failures on the Cayman if the cars had been over revved in the past. So if a previous owner has mis-shifted then you're screwed.
They will insist on a bore scope if it shows to have been overreved. If it's passes then they will cover it.I have heard of M3s going bang. But not on the same scale as Gen1 Caymans.
I did take a look at OPC warranty but aside from costing a huge amount of money people were complaining that Porsche would not cover the engine failures on the Cayman if the cars had been over revved in the past. So if a previous owner has mis-shifted then you're screwed.
I know because I went through the process (incidentally not taking the warranty out and declining the bore scope).
paulmoonraker said:
Most warranty companies have dodged these large claims.
Read the Hartech information thoroughly including the responses he has posted on here, rather than listening to people on here who have not owned or researched one properly.
In summary (and from memory), the conclusion (from Hartech, who have extensively researched the problem) seems to be that there is a cooling problem that causes the oil to bubble on the cylinder walls.
Specifically, if after hard driving you stop suddenly at say lights, then boot it really hard away, the cooling system has slowed and for a split second the cylinder wall overheats causing the oil to bubble and the piston to scrape the cylinder wall.
Answer, bear this in mind and don't boot away from the lights.
Hartech seem to think the auto boxes are worst effected, possibly because they pull away sometimes in 2nd gear.
The auto boxes are also bad because the scoring is worse when the engine has spent its life at low revs.Read the Hartech information thoroughly including the responses he has posted on here, rather than listening to people on here who have not owned or researched one properly.
In summary (and from memory), the conclusion (from Hartech, who have extensively researched the problem) seems to be that there is a cooling problem that causes the oil to bubble on the cylinder walls.
Specifically, if after hard driving you stop suddenly at say lights, then boot it really hard away, the cooling system has slowed and for a split second the cylinder wall overheats causing the oil to bubble and the piston to scrape the cylinder wall.
Answer, bear this in mind and don't boot away from the lights.
Hartech seem to think the auto boxes are worst effected, possibly because they pull away sometimes in 2nd gear.
You're stuck between a manual that could have been money-shifted and an auto box that slowly wrecks the engine!
CarAbuser said:
The auto boxes are also bad because the scoring is worse when the engine has spent its life at low revs.
You're stuck between a manual that could have been money-shifted and an auto box that slowly wrecks the engine!
Yes, because of the torque they develop. Again, all on Hartechs site.You're stuck between a manual that could have been money-shifted and an auto box that slowly wrecks the engine!
AUC Z4MR or MC for around £15-£17k. Then negotiate two years warranty into the price.
I preferred the Z4M over both the Cayman S (better engine/sound plus I prefer the looks with CSL's, CH's, etc) and the E46 M3 (felt more of an occasion, preferred the looks and didn't need four seats).
Depreciation is low, running costs are relatively low and potential costs will be £0 with the AUC warranty as it is practically as good as a new car warranty (they covered a lost washer jet cover and cracked rear centre brake light for instance).
I preferred the Z4M over both the Cayman S (better engine/sound plus I prefer the looks with CSL's, CH's, etc) and the E46 M3 (felt more of an occasion, preferred the looks and didn't need four seats).
Depreciation is low, running costs are relatively low and potential costs will be £0 with the AUC warranty as it is practically as good as a new car warranty (they covered a lost washer jet cover and cracked rear centre brake light for instance).
Tuvra said:
PompeyPaul said:
Tuvra said:
There are 12+ "New Shape" XKR's on Ebay below £20,995 both coupe and convertible. Not the 5.0 XKR but a 4.2 XKR non the less.
Welshbeef said:
My boss had the XKR-S dynamic vert - what a great sounding thing fast too, isn't the 4.2supercharged a lot slower
The XKR-S (2008) is also a 4.2 Supercharged V8. I believe the power outputs are very similar to the standard XKR with one having fettled brakes, suspension, wheels etc.jonm01 said:
PompeyPaul said:
Wow, thanks for the heads up. At my budget it won't stretch to one with an OPC warranty 
Don't let internet scaremongers put you off a great car.Oh. And it's for sale too!
And it's well under £20k.
And it's white.
ORD said:
Scored bores is not a 10k repair, by the way! You'd need to lose the IMS and f
k the whole engine to get to that kind of money.
My car had 2 shot cylinder liners and the bill for the repair (admitedly with a few upgrades to minimise it happening again) was just under £8K.k the whole engine to get to that kind of money.This sort of stuff can't be done by a back street garage and if you use one of the specialists who know what they are doing (Hartech in my case) it comes with a cost.
My Cayman S was utterly brilliant for 4 years but the problems at the end left a very sour taste in my mouth especially as it's a known problem which Porsche does f**k all about unless you have their expensive warranty.
Tuvra said:
There are 12+ "New Shape" XKR's on Ebay below £20,995 both coupe and convertible. Not the 5.0 XKR but a 4.2 XKR non the less.
paulmoonraker said:
PompeyPaul said:
paulmoonraker said:
Indeed. I often did a few shows to pay for the petrol that the M3 relentlessly drank.So, not a massive difference and if I am honest, not a personal consideration. Incidentally, the Cayman S was better managing 30MPG on a run with relative ease.
Welshbeef said:
Isn't the E60 M5 engine the most spectacular engine more so than M3
no - its an epic V10 be in no doubt... but the M3's V8 has it beat... i'd go as far as to say its probably one of the finest engines ever built..Legend83 said:
If you need positive stories my BIL has had his 55 plate Cayman for two years now and done 20k miles.
Bought privately.
Nothing had gone wrong for the previous owner and nothing has gone wrong since.
Tyres and servicing.
That's the motoring equivalent of someone saying their grandfather smoked 80 a day since he was 12 years old and died at 106 so don't worry.Bought privately.
Nothing had gone wrong for the previous owner and nothing has gone wrong since.
Tyres and servicing.
Mine did 50,000 miles in 4 years and several trips all over Europe without missing a beat until the problems started.
I'm not scaremongering but if you are buying a used Cayman you need to go into it in possession of all the facts. This is a well known issue which does affect a percentage of cars which is big enough for purchasers to take serious note of.
Yes you could be lucky and never have any problems with the car and if so you will have great time. Alternatively you could end up with a knackered car that you can't afford to fix and at this budget that's an expensive exercise.
If you don't have the funds to fix it it can seriously affect your enjoyment of the car. You will be wary of driving it hard and your paranoia will turn every small noise into the start of a massive terminal engine implosion.
I never felt the same about my car after I had it back and sold it soon after.
From what I gather the non S model doesn't suffer from this issue to the same extent though.
Welshbeef said:
Fidgits said:
no - its an epic V10 be in no doubt... but the M3's V8 has it beat... i'd go as far as to say its probably one of the finest engines ever built..
How does it compare to the RS4 V8 - not sure of that revs higher ?That is the one let down of the BMW - the sound. It's fine when its screaming, but when doodling it's too quiet.
Davey S2 said:
I'm not scaremongering but if you are buying a used Cayman you need to go into it in possession of all the facts. This is a well known issue which does affect a percentage of cars which is big enough for purchasers to take serious note of.
This - just do your home work. If you go as far as to understand the underlying cause (or as best you can), then you can better understand the risk.paulmoonraker said:
The Audi sounds more like a traditional V8. I have never heard anyone claim it to be as good as the BMW though. In fact, I have never heard them mentioned in the same sentence!
That is the one let down of the BMW - the sound. It's fine when its screaming, but when doodling it's too quiet.
Top gear TV tested the RS4 M3 V8 and C63 together - hardly anything in it 0-100moh RS4 v M3 but C63 won convincingly That is the one let down of the BMW - the sound. It's fine when its screaming, but when doodling it's too quiet.
Track M3 ruled
On road - M3 needs revs to be so high that you are over speed limit to access the fun zone whereas C63 fun zone starts at idlec(noise)
Rs4 - didn't that engine win engine of the year some time ago?
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