Making the switch from running new cars to older cars
Discussion
I'm getting increasingly keen to change my current car (Golf GTI, about 2.5 years old). A lot of people on here espouse the theory that you shouldn't spend £35k on a new Golf R, for example, because for that you could buy a <fill in the blank>.
I find myself alternating between looking at new Golf R, Audi S3/4 etc and older FFRR's, RS4's, XFR etc.
However I have never run a car older than about 5 or 6 years old, I've always bought new or nearly new and haven't made it past about 45k miles in anything. So I've certainly paid out in depreciation terms. The same applies to most of my friends and family with the exception of people who resent spending money on cars and run about in something old but cheap. I know my close friends and my parents would think I was being stupid buying older but "flashy".
The idea of running, for example, a 6 or 7 year old RS4 unnerves me. Warranties seem to be of debatable value and the thought of spending £30k on such a car and then getting a £5000 bill shortly after puts me off. But you can get much more exciting cars if you buy older. And round and round in circles I go. I do appreciate that the initial budget for old needs to be a bit less than for new to leave a reserve.
Anyone got any thoughts on moving from one to the other. Always bought older and then got sick to death of bills and bought new? Or been braver than me and loved it?
Realistically its not a good time to change car at all as my wife is on mat leave. But the second things are more stable the hunt starts and I'd be interested to hear peoples opinions and experiences.
I find myself alternating between looking at new Golf R, Audi S3/4 etc and older FFRR's, RS4's, XFR etc.
However I have never run a car older than about 5 or 6 years old, I've always bought new or nearly new and haven't made it past about 45k miles in anything. So I've certainly paid out in depreciation terms. The same applies to most of my friends and family with the exception of people who resent spending money on cars and run about in something old but cheap. I know my close friends and my parents would think I was being stupid buying older but "flashy".
The idea of running, for example, a 6 or 7 year old RS4 unnerves me. Warranties seem to be of debatable value and the thought of spending £30k on such a car and then getting a £5000 bill shortly after puts me off. But you can get much more exciting cars if you buy older. And round and round in circles I go. I do appreciate that the initial budget for old needs to be a bit less than for new to leave a reserve.
Anyone got any thoughts on moving from one to the other. Always bought older and then got sick to death of bills and bought new? Or been braver than me and loved it?
Realistically its not a good time to change car at all as my wife is on mat leave. But the second things are more stable the hunt starts and I'd be interested to hear peoples opinions and experiences.
I did it a few years ago after coming out of jobs that had big allowances or company cars, I didnt have the cash or desire to be paying it out of my own money, so bought older cars that needed an eye kept on them
I'm also not bothered about driving something new, pretty much every car out on the roads today would fill my requirements for essentials
I went down the barge route because I like them for everyday driving and the odd long distance travel, but I've had to get my hands dirty in a few cases to keep things working. In other cases I had to hand them over to a garage to fix as I didnt have the tools or knowledge. I try and do as much as I can at home for repairs, tbh the S Type I have isnt costing a lot to keep on the road, but I'm heading off the the scrapyard at lunchtime to see if I can track down a rear suspension arm and bush to stop mine squeaking
In most cases independent garages can keep you on the road for a modest sum as long as they know what they're doing.
PS - a 6 or 7 year old car is a new car
I'm also not bothered about driving something new, pretty much every car out on the roads today would fill my requirements for essentials
I went down the barge route because I like them for everyday driving and the odd long distance travel, but I've had to get my hands dirty in a few cases to keep things working. In other cases I had to hand them over to a garage to fix as I didnt have the tools or knowledge. I try and do as much as I can at home for repairs, tbh the S Type I have isnt costing a lot to keep on the road, but I'm heading off the the scrapyard at lunchtime to see if I can track down a rear suspension arm and bush to stop mine squeaking
In most cases independent garages can keep you on the road for a modest sum as long as they know what they're doing.
PS - a 6 or 7 year old car is a new car
Ive done both and both have their merits. I ran a brand new BMW for the last 18 months mainly because i needed a comfortable mile muncher that would be completely hassle free (I was going to say reliable but new isn't any guarantee of reliability). As they come with BMW assist it fit the bill and on the 1 time i used the service it was utterly amazing.
Buying used and especially buying something the likes of the cars you have listed you need to know what to look for. Do lots of research, go into it with your eyes open, be aware of any potential issues, make sure you could afford worst case scenario.
My experience has been that running an older car, even if it is a car with potential big bills always works out cheaper than suffering depreciation on a new car over a number of years. I feel physically sick when i think about how much 18 months in that BMW cost me.
Buying used and especially buying something the likes of the cars you have listed you need to know what to look for. Do lots of research, go into it with your eyes open, be aware of any potential issues, make sure you could afford worst case scenario.
My experience has been that running an older car, even if it is a car with potential big bills always works out cheaper than suffering depreciation on a new car over a number of years. I feel physically sick when i think about how much 18 months in that BMW cost me.
If you can DIY I think it takes a lot of the scariness out of it. Then the fear only becomes the parts cost, and labour is virtually nothing. Lots of DIY diagnostics tools available now as well, which can be a massive help, rather than something to be regarded as black magic.
Some cars have a huge amount of online and aftermarket supports, BMW's, Audi's etc. others, such as Korean makes, have very little. In the BMW world there are specialists that can repair expensive electronic modules for a relatively low cost, and tons of DIY guides on forums about how to sort common problems.
If you do your research and go in eyes-wide-open, and have a "bork fund" then you'll be fine IMO.
Some cars have a huge amount of online and aftermarket supports, BMW's, Audi's etc. others, such as Korean makes, have very little. In the BMW world there are specialists that can repair expensive electronic modules for a relatively low cost, and tons of DIY guides on forums about how to sort common problems.
If you do your research and go in eyes-wide-open, and have a "bork fund" then you'll be fine IMO.
My newest daily driver is almost 14 years old and don't have any reliability problems with them. The trick is to find one that has been looked after well and to have someone local who can look after it to a good standard. Be that a main dealer or specialist.
Keep on top of the little jobs as well as the major items or they will pile up and cost a fortune to resolve. On your inspection and test drive you may not spot everything that may not be quite right with the car so keep a bit of cash available for rectification soon after purchase. A slush fund is also useful in case anything more major goes wrong too at a later date.
Most dealers/private sellers will let you have the car inspected by a local specialist at your own cost. Will give you a far better idea of what's going on underneath than you'll be able to see while it's parked up.
Good luck with your purchase, lots of exciting cars out there, just because it's older doesn't mean it'll be a money pit
Keep on top of the little jobs as well as the major items or they will pile up and cost a fortune to resolve. On your inspection and test drive you may not spot everything that may not be quite right with the car so keep a bit of cash available for rectification soon after purchase. A slush fund is also useful in case anything more major goes wrong too at a later date.
Most dealers/private sellers will let you have the car inspected by a local specialist at your own cost. Will give you a far better idea of what's going on underneath than you'll be able to see while it's parked up.
Good luck with your purchase, lots of exciting cars out there, just because it's older doesn't mean it'll be a money pit
Edited by The Big G on Tuesday 19th August 09:51
I was literally discussing this topic with my dad yesterday. I grew up watching my parents buy new cars every 3 years, and therefore was conditioned into thinking that maintenance was an annual affair - throw it into the garage, pay £300 or so, have any major issues fixed under warranty and continue problem-free, 100% reliable motoring.
What was not visible, of course, was the crippling cost of depreciation.
Buying an older car, like the 15-year old Boxster I currently run, requires proactive maintenance. A good service every year, replacement of worn-out components, keeping an eye on fluid levels, key components, etc. There is an endemic cost in running a car, so whilst an older car depreciates less, it requires more in maintenance. This cost is usually much less than the depreciation cost on a new car, but can sometimes feel more since you're actively dipping into your wallet every now and then to pay for maintenance.
It's a psychological, perception thing.
What was not visible, of course, was the crippling cost of depreciation.
Buying an older car, like the 15-year old Boxster I currently run, requires proactive maintenance. A good service every year, replacement of worn-out components, keeping an eye on fluid levels, key components, etc. There is an endemic cost in running a car, so whilst an older car depreciates less, it requires more in maintenance. This cost is usually much less than the depreciation cost on a new car, but can sometimes feel more since you're actively dipping into your wallet every now and then to pay for maintenance.
It's a psychological, perception thing.
Sevo said:
The idea of running, for example, a 6 or 7 year old RS4 unnerves me.
You'll need to allow 5% of the new cost of the car each year for maintenance to be on the safe side. In other words if the car cost £50,000 when it was new, allow a maintenance budget of £2,500 p.a.Sevo said:
Warranties seem to be of debatable value the thought of spending £30k on such a car and then getting a £5000 bill shortly after puts me off.
Agreed. Better to keep your £5k in reserve.Sevo said:
Anyone got any thoughts on moving from one to the other. Always bought older and then got sick to death of bills
It's not just the bills but the hassle and time of having a car that needs more frequent trips to the garage. People on here often say that dealer maintenance is a rip-off compared to their local indy - but bear in mind the dealer maintenance schedule is intended to keep you away from the garage for maybe 15,000 miles/ 2 years at a time. You're very unlikely to achieve that with an older car at an indy.At the simplest, cars which were expensive to run when they were new don't miraculously become cheap to run between 5 and 10 years old. Go in with your eyes open (and wallet ready) and you'll be fine.
Please, whatever you do, don't go and buy a high performance car and stick cheap tyres on it. So many people get caught by that one.
Ozzie Osmond said:
You'll need to allow 5% of the new cost of the car each year for maintenance to be on the safe side. In other words if the car cost £50,000 when it was new, allow a maintenance budget of £2,500 p.a.
I've never really got this. I have no intention of spending £2k/year on my E39 (was a £40k car in 2003).I'll probably do the coolant system next year, about £400 worth of bits, but then it's sorted for a good while. This year it's had a new brake caliper (£65) and might need new discs and pads on the front in a few months time (£150). Can't see it needing much more on top of that apart from oil+filter changes, but that's not a huge amount.
Agree on the post about proactive maintenance. Stuff like finding water leaks before the floor pans go rusty, keeping the crap cleaned out of the arch liners etc. All basic stuff that just takes a little bit of time but protects your investment.
I used to buy new on a regular basis, but never again - making older cars run and handle better than new is much more fun and rewarding - but our cars are more 'sporty' than shopping trolley.
It needn't cost the earth if you do your research, identify potential problems and get them sorted before they fail - there are a lot of very good specialists out there, who are much cheaper than dealers and in some case, know more and do a much better job. Our youngest car is a 54 plate, and not once has any of them let us down since preventative maintenance.
It needn't cost the earth if you do your research, identify potential problems and get them sorted before they fail - there are a lot of very good specialists out there, who are much cheaper than dealers and in some case, know more and do a much better job. Our youngest car is a 54 plate, and not once has any of them let us down since preventative maintenance.
The newest car I've ever run was 12 years old. It was the most reliable, but also the most expensive to run. My oldest daily was 41 years old and it was fantastic, never let me down. I wouldn't have any reservations about running an old car as a daily, just keep on top of the maintenance.
Narrow your choices down and do your research on each. Dedicated forums should be your bible in the days leading up to viewing, most will have a buyer's guide as a sticky thread. You don't have the luxury of ticking an options list and it arriving from the factory just as you like so be willing to sacrifice your preferred colour or spec etc. for a car which has been well cared for. Test drive a few of the same car so you can uncover problems by way of comparison; one car may feel great up until the point you drive another which makes the previous example feel tired. As others have said (and it is rather cliche) go in with your eyes open. A car that cost £50/60k new will still have maintenance costs that reflect that today.
Why do you need to "make a switch"? If you _don't_ switch, then you automatically gently go from running a new car to an older one - in real time! Each year, you gently move to running a car that's a year older than the car you were running last year. It's magic! Even better, you don't have that hassle of having to sell one car and buy another.
Sevo said:
I know my close friends and my parents would think I was being stupid buying older but "flashy".
Can you expand on this ? I personally think having a newer car is deemed more flashy - as it's a keep up with the Jones' mentality. Buying something you want that is within budget but the compromise being it's a few years older or has high mileage is more sensible ?Interesting replies, thanks all.
As for tyres, I wouldn't dream of it. One, soon to be two, kid and my wife in the car and the need to drive through Bradford means car control is an absolute must.
andy-xr said:
... but I've had to get my hands dirty in a few cases to keep things working. In other cases I had to hand them over to a garage to fix as I didnt have the tools or knowledge. I try and do as much as I can at home for repairs, tbh the S Type I have isnt costing a lot to keep on the road, but I'm heading off the the scrapyard at lunchtime to see if I can track down a rear suspension arm and bush to stop mine squeaking
DIY is not really an option for me. I don't have the time or skills to do much more than change wiper blades. I accept that increases the running costs and perhaps reduces what I could/should buy.nunpuncher said:
I feel physically sick when i think about how much 18 months in that BMW cost me.
Yup. But it's hidden cost rather than a bill... delays said:
It's a psychological, perception thing.
Ozzie Osmond said:
It's not just the bills but the hassle and time of having a car that needs more frequent trips to the garage.
...
Please, whatever you do, don't go and buy a high performance car and stick cheap tyres on it. So many people get caught by that one.
This is an issue too. I need a reliable car and can't be without a car for more than 24hrs with work....
Please, whatever you do, don't go and buy a high performance car and stick cheap tyres on it. So many people get caught by that one.
As for tyres, I wouldn't dream of it. One, soon to be two, kid and my wife in the car and the need to drive through Bradford means car control is an absolute must.
TooMany2cvs said:
Why do you need to "make a switch"? If you _don't_ switch, then you automatically gently go from running a new car to an older one - in real time! Each year, you gently move to running a car that's a year older than the car you were running last year. It's magic! Even better, you don't have that hassle of having to sell one car and buy another.
Upgradeitis. The golf was a running cost decrease exercise whilst we moved house and a few other bits and bobs. I've never gelled with it, miss the 135 so much. On that point though one of my thoughts is hang on to the golf for another 3 years (till child no.2 is in forward facing child seat, we've used rear facing till 3 for my daughter and will do the same but the seats are huge) and save to buy something more expensive and less compromised by family like a newish 911. Less maintenance, more depreciation but perhaps more reassuring to run.dtmpower said:
Can you expand on this ? I personally think having a newer car is deemed more flashy - as it's a keep up with the Jones' mentality. Buying something you want that is within budget but the compromise being it's a few years older or has high mileage is more sensible ?
Maybe flashy is the wrong word. It's a matter of perception of cost. New golf versus old RS4. As per the whole topic its perceived to be much more expensive. Family and friends thinking I'm mad is not a problem. I mentioned it to illustrate the mentality I've grown up in/surrounded by, and I am still influenced by it despite trying to rationalise.Sevo said:
The idea of running, for example, a 6 or 7 year old RS4 unnerves me. Warranties seem to be of debatable value and the thought of spending £30k on such a car and then getting a £5000 bill shortly after puts me off.
Same as spending £30k on a brand new car and taking a £5k depreciation hit as you drive it off the forecourt...Also for the used cars you're considering the repair bills are not going to be £5k unless the engine breaks or something.
Sevo said:
Maybe flashy is the wrong word. It's a matter of perception of cost. New golf versus old RS4. As per the whole topic its perceived to be much more expensive. Family and friends thinking I'm mad is not a problem. I mentioned it to illustrate the mentality I've grown up in/surrounded by, and I am still influenced by it despite trying to rationalise.
I know exactly what you mean. I was in the same boat, grew up thinking everyone had brand new cars every few years and 2 foreign holidays. Once I was out on my own in the world and realised that this is frankly not true. I don't care what anyone thinks of my car, clothes, phone, holiday, hobbies now.
How are you still influenced by it though ?
chris watton said:
You could of course stick on a private plate, then most wouldn't know the age of the car - especially these days, when most new cars look the same...
dtmpower said:
How are you still influenced by it though ?
I'm not worried about how I'm perceived. I'm struggling to get away from the nagging fear that I'll buy a money pit and waste a fortune. But cerebrally I know this is true:Shaoxter said:
Same as spending £30k on a brand new car and taking a £5k depreciation hit as you drive it off the forecourt...
I have never been able to get my head around how people bust their guts working hard to earn money and then watch it vanish at the same time in depreciation on new cars, just to keep up with the neighbours.
No one looks twice at a range rover sport, or Cayenne, but double take whenever they see an 80s or 90s classic that is still practical to use as an everyday car.
The cars of the last 20 years are so much better built then previous that you dont need to run a banger for banger money anymore. Sensible selection of the initial car, regular maintenance, keep an eye on tyres, brakes etc and you can run some lovely cars for buttons, with little or no depreciation.
Its like buying a new static caravan to live in and watching the arse fall out of it value wise, instead of buying a decent 3 bed house.
However I would avoid high tech, high initial value cars that are now pocket money, as they are still £50K plus cars to run regardless.
No one looks twice at a range rover sport, or Cayenne, but double take whenever they see an 80s or 90s classic that is still practical to use as an everyday car.
The cars of the last 20 years are so much better built then previous that you dont need to run a banger for banger money anymore. Sensible selection of the initial car, regular maintenance, keep an eye on tyres, brakes etc and you can run some lovely cars for buttons, with little or no depreciation.
Its like buying a new static caravan to live in and watching the arse fall out of it value wise, instead of buying a decent 3 bed house.
However I would avoid high tech, high initial value cars that are now pocket money, as they are still £50K plus cars to run regardless.
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