Making the switch from running new cars to older cars

[deltashad]

I've run both old and new cars, the company car is now nearly 2 years old with 50k klms, I don't have to worry about costs and it never fails (Toyota.

Every car which I've bought for please has ended up being problematic, parts hard to source and regular money drain, the daily was bought because I wanted something reliable which had lost its depreciation. Apart from the high fuel bills the last three years have seen very little in the way of repairs, it was bought 7 years old with 35k miles on the clock. I just had to splash out 1k on repairs which is totally acceptable over the period of ownership.

If you buy used, buy sensibly, if you don't buy sensibly then expect high running costs and lack of parts availability.

You have to weigh it all up.

[Sevo]

Mr Taxpayer said:

All Subarus post-99 have ISOFIX, Subaru and Volvo being among the first to adopt the system. All Subarus come with all-wheel drive. A lot of Subarus are easily capable of a 5s 0-60 time. Their dealers keept winning Dealer satisfaction surveys and their warranty claim & reliability figures in any survey you choose kick all the German cars into the gutter. A lot of Subarus are available around the 10K price point.

If you are being honest with yourself and the car as a status symbol doesn't matter, why are you only considering German cars? I own (and get stick for, admittedly) owning an Impreza Wagon with an LPG kit. With your budget, I'd look for a Legacy Spec B, 3-litre flat-6. Top Gear TV's Car of the Year a few years back.

I have a spare set of wheels with winter tyres fitted for the Impreza and the wife's 2WD Panda. Whatever you car you buy, please, please get a set of winter boots for it. Read some of the reviews in Top Gear mag about their long-term MP4-12C and how transformed it was after fitting winter rubber.

Just a suggestion...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...

No, I don't work for Subaru or a tyre company. I'm an Engineer that likes a fast drive and and apply engineering principles to my car selection choices, hence a total absence of badge-love.

Edited by Mr Taxpayer on Wednesday 20th August 09:13

I thought Subaru would be suggested, I've thought about it before. When I bought the 135 I test drove an Impreza 330, it was very good but four times the cost to insure and not very comfortable. I preferred the 135 as an overall package. A top end legacy is not a bad idea though.

Not German badge obsessed at all, although I concede my car history looks that way, I've been eyeing up used XFR's and ISF's. The Golf R and RS4 examples are meant to illustrate my point rather than being what I'd necessarily buy.

[Mr Taxpayer]

Sevo said:

Mr Taxpayer said:

All Subarus post-99 have ISOFIX, Subaru and Volvo being among the first to adopt the system. All Subarus come with all-wheel drive. A lot of Subarus are easily capable of a 5s 0-60 time. Their dealers keept winning Dealer satisfaction surveys and their warranty claim & reliability figures in any survey you choose kick all the German cars into the gutter. A lot of Subarus are available around the 10K price point.

If you are being honest with yourself and the car as a status symbol doesn't matter, why are you only considering German cars? I own (and get stick for, admittedly) owning an Impreza Wagon with an LPG kit. With your budget, I'd look for a Legacy Spec B, 3-litre flat-6. Top Gear TV's Car of the Year a few years back.

I have a spare set of wheels with winter tyres fitted for the Impreza and the wife's 2WD Panda. Whatever you car you buy, please, please get a set of winter boots for it. Read some of the reviews in Top Gear mag about their long-term MP4-12C and how transformed it was after fitting winter rubber.

Just a suggestion...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...

No, I don't work for Subaru or a tyre company. I'm an Engineer that likes a fast drive and and apply engineering principles to my car selection choices, hence a total absence of badge-love.

Edited by Mr Taxpayer on Wednesday 20th August 09:13

I thought Subaru would be suggested, I've thought about it before. When I bought the 135 I test drove an Impreza 330, it was very good but four times the cost to insure and not very comfortable. I preferred the 135 as an overall package. A top end legacy is not a bad idea though.

Not German badge obsessed at all, although I concede my car history looks that way, I've been eyeing up used XFR's and ISF's. The Golf R and RS4 examples are meant to illustrate my point rather than being what I'd necessarily buy.

Points accepted. If your bum says 'no'; don't go! I like your Jaaaag choice

[BE57 TOY]

I've bought new before because I wanted a commuter car for £x per month and no repair bills. And the convenience that if it breaks, it goes straight to a nearby main dealer who will put me straight into a courtesy vehicle.

I currently drive a car I bought at 6 years old and it is actually costing me more, so far, than the new car cost and will do until I've had it for 3 years, at which point it will start to become staggeringly cheaper!

Would I buy another new car again - probably yes - because they can be had for buttons on a PCP. Is it more expensive overall, yes, but if you need hassle free it works!

[Challo]

When I was younger I did consider buying cars on PCP but I could justify the deposit, monthly payment and then another cost at the end just to own it. Rather buy something for around 5k, chop and change if i got bored and get something else.

I think if your comfortable with a set of spanners and dont mind DIY repairs then nothing wrong at all with old cars. Everything can be found on google and most repairs can done by following a step by step video on youtube.

[white_goodman]

Challo said:

When I was younger I did consider buying cars on PCP but I could justify the deposit, monthly payment and then another cost at the end just to own it. Rather buy something for around 5k, chop and change if i got bored and get something else.

I think if your comfortable with a set of spanners and dont mind DIY repairs then nothing wrong at all with old cars. Everything can be found on google and most repairs can done by following a step by step video on youtube.

I've run both new/nearly new and older. OP, is the Golf your only car? My preference is a new/nearly new car for my wife, as I want her to have safety and reliability (especially with two small kids) and older for me, as for my car those aren't such a prime concern. That's not really a rational argument though, as I don't particularly want to break down or get injured/killed in a crash either! My wife currently has a new car doe these reasons (although if it is a couple of years old and the current design, the safety aspect isn't really an issue). I run a 10 year old car (nothing special) simply because it was cheap, has been reliable, I only really use it for commuting and I drive 5 miles on gravel every day and don't want to mess up a new car. Before my wife got her new car, she had a 13 year old Jeep which I liked better than her new car but regularly cost us a fortune in repairs, so reliabilty and safety were a bit questionable. That's how we ended up in our current situation and my wife is on mat leave too, so that seemed like the best solution for us. We are however making lease payments and the insurance on the new car was a bit more than on the Jeep but we should get no unexpected bills!

I have however in the past traded in a 2008 Polo TDI for a 2004 Impreza WRX (both kept for 2.5 years) and despite being more expensive to run and insure and throwing me a 1200 pound bill at its first MOT, it was mostly reliable and that financial sacrifice was worth it in order to drive something that I wanted to own and enjoyed driving. The Impreza also cost me just over 50% of what I paid for the Polo from new, which seemed pretty good value!

I would like to replace my current vehicle and would love an older and nicer rather than new/nearly new "white goods" car but would need to borrow some money to upgrade. This is a difficult quandary for me because for the same payment as an older, "nicer" car without warranty, I could probably get a new car with warranty that would meet all my requirements and pay 0% interest rather than 6% interest. Not sure whether to keep the old car, as it meets by basic requirements and works fine or sell/trade in while it is still worth something because a major failure like the engine or transmission would make it effectively worthless!

If you're paying cash this isn't such an issue. I would rather have a slightly older, nicer car any day but if you're budget is 30k for a new car, don't spend 30k on a 5 year old one. Spend more like 15-20k and then you have enough money in reserve for maintenance and repairs. Like you, I would love a B7 RS4 and the fuel consumption wouldn't be a major concern but having read up on them, they are more complicated than I thought and can go expensively wrong. I would be tempted by a slightly older, simpler car like an E39 M5 though!

From my experience, avoid buying something 5-7 years old, especially from a non-franchised dealer. These will often have been traded in because the previous owner didn't want to shell out for the necessary repairs and the dealer will be reluctant to sort them out too, unless they are obvious problems. Buying cars of this age has never worked out well for me, whereas something a bit older or younger either won't have the same issues or they will have been dealt with already under warranty or by the previous owner.

[FredClogs]

For something like a 6 year old RS4, M3 or AMG Merc to hit you with a £5k bill in one go seems pretty unlikely, you may have a bad year when you need 4 tyres, 4 dics and pads, a big service and some suspension bit or other needs replacing or the turbo blows which may add up to £5k but the year after you'll be plain sailing.

The chance of a 6 year old car actually borking so bad you get a single £5k bill on top of your running cost stuff i.e in lunches a gearbox or throws a piston out the side of the engine block seem pretty unlikely.

[white_goodman]

FredClogs said:

For something like a 6 year old RS4, M3 or AMG Merc to hit you with a £5k bill in one go seems pretty unlikely, you may have a bad year when you need 4 tyres, 4 dics and pads, a big service and some suspension bit or other needs replacing or the turbo blows which may add up to £5k but the year after you'll be plain sailing.

The chance of a 6 year old car actually borking so bad you get a single £5k bill on top of your running cost stuff i.e in lunches a gearbox or throws a piston out the side of the engine block seem pretty unlikely.

I think it was the Dynamic Ride Control going wrong and the associated cost on the RS4 that put me off a bit.

[Mr Taxpayer]

BE57 TOY said:

Would I buy another new car again - probably yes - because they can be had for buttons on a PCP. Is it more expensive overall, yes, but if you need hassle free it works!

You don't buy a car on PCP, you are renting it. Look at the the amount of money you hand over on PCP and compare that to the list price. It's somewhat more than buttons.

[BE57 TOY]

Mr Taxpayer said:

BE57 TOY said:

Would I buy another new car again - probably yes - because they can be had for buttons on a PCP. Is it more expensive overall, yes, but if you need hassle free it works!

You don't buy a car on PCP, you are renting it. Look at the the amount of money you hand over on PCP and compare that to the list price. It's somewhat more than buttons.

I think it depends on the deal and the GFV/balloon. A lot of the time it works out cheaper than buying a new car outright then selling at 3 years old. Although swapping at this age is probably the most expensive way of doing things!

[flatso]

Whilst drinking a beer in Düsseldorf I got talking to a guy next to me. He was a tow truck driver for ADAC (german auto club) so obviously I asked about reliability of cars as he is on the forefront of the matter. He sais he picks up all sorts of cars (from Alfas of course to e60 BMW's with injector problems, S-Klasse with windshield wipers that stopped working because of some ridiculous sensors etc.). He never buys new cars, and the used ones he picks up have been at least 7 years on the market, this way he knows what suprises may come his way.
I have met too many older folks who are in their 60's and complain about still having to work before going into retirement and one of their main regrets are buying too many new cars and getting hammered with the depreciation costs.
Our most precious assets are our health and our time. It boggles the mind how many people slave away at jobs that stress them out in order to buy a car they don't need with money they don't have in order to satisfy some false sense of achievment. Never mind that the kids are basically educated by the TV and the schools, never mind the fact that they haven't enjoyed an afternoon nap in decades....at least the new debadged 316d is in the driveway waiting to bring its caffeine pumped owner to his utterly hated job at 6 o'clock in the morning through snailpaced traffic jams amongst other like minded products of Edward Bernays' theories

[CRA1G]

I sold my daily driver a a couple of months ago and now waiting for my new car to arrive in November so I'm using my BMW 840 Sport which i'v had tucked away for years and normally does no more than 200 miles in the year,it's 16 years old now with just over 60K on the clock and what a pleasure it is to use daily I'm really enjoying it,New cars just seem to lack character.. It's certainty got me thinking and I will defiantly be using it more often.....

[BGarside]

flatso said:

Whilst drinking a beer in Düsseldorf I got talking to a guy next to me. He was a tow truck driver for ADAC (german auto club) so obviously I asked about reliability of cars as he is on the forefront of the matter. He sais he picks up all sorts of cars (from Alfas of course to e60 BMW's with injector problems, S-Klasse with windshield wipers that stopped working because of some ridiculous sensors etc.). He never buys new cars, and the used ones he picks up have been at least 7 years on the market, this way he knows what suprises may come his way.
I have met too many older folks who are in their 60's and complain about still having to work before going into retirement and one of their main regrets are buying too many new cars and getting hammered with the depreciation costs.
Our most precious assets are our health and our time. It boggles the mind how many people slave away at jobs that stress them out in order to buy a car they don't need with money they don't have in order to satisfy some false sense of achievment. Never mind that the kids are basically educated by the TV and the schools, never mind the fact that they haven't enjoyed an afternoon nap in decades....at least the new debadged 316d is in the driveway waiting to bring its caffeine pumped owner to his utterly hated job at 6 o'clock in the morning through snailpaced traffic jams amongst other like minded products of Edward Bernays' theories

Totally agree, although I've always bought older cars 3-8 years old myself. The world is full of me-too drones driving around in grey or silver Audis or BMWs, which have become more common than Fords so I'm not sure who they are trying to impress.

Latest purchase is 21 years old though so I guess I am going to be hammered with running costs instead! At least the faults are well-known.

[Bemmer]

CRA1G said:

I sold my daily driver a a couple of months ago and now waiting for my new car to arrive in November so I'm using my BMW 840 Sport which i'v had tucked away for years and normally does no more than 200 miles in the year,it's 16 years old now with just over 60K on the clock and what a pleasure it is to use daily I'm really enjoying it,New cars just seem to lack character.. It's certainty got me thinking and I will defiantly be using it more often.....

Does that mean the Aston,s gone.? If so what are you replacing it with.? And I thought you had a yellow Z3 M Coupe.?

[Oilchange]

Interesting topic this, I always buy older cars, depreciation is astonishing on new ones and I'd rather spend it on racing/flying/holidays/mortgage etc
I swapped an Alfa v6 for a 153k Omega 2.6 on lpg for my commute and while it broke down once needing a new alternator and battery, it is a really comfortable place to be. That cost me almost £400 but I reckon I've saved much more than that in petrol costs since I've owned it.
Bose sound, electric everything and 23 mpg (I pay 61.9p lpg so effectively double that to get a petrol equivalent)
I look at the oncoming traffic on the motorway and all I see is modern silvery grey dullness...

[BE57 TOY]

Oilchange said:

I look at the oncoming traffic on the motorway and all I see is modern silvery grey dullness...

And LED's

[MC Bodge]

flatso said:

Our most precious assets are our health and our time. It boggles the mind how many people slave away at jobs that stress them out in order to buy a car they don't need with money they don't have in order to satisfy some false sense of achievment...

...at least the new debadged 316d is in the driveway waiting to bring its caffeine pumped owner to his utterly hated job at 6 o'clock in the morning through snailpaced traffic jams amongst other like minded products of Edward Bernays' theories

For many people,
"I am what I buy" and
"I shop, therefore I am".

I prefer doing (or at least trying to!).

[chris watton]

BE57 TOY said:

Oilchange said:

I look at the oncoming traffic on the motorway and all I see is modern silvery grey dullness...

And LED's

Yes! They MUST have all of their lights on - even on a nice and bright sunny day, to show everyone their LED Angel-eyes, and to prove they have arrived!

[ARH]

I have always driven older cars. right now my daily hack is an 05 reg jag x type with 168k miles on the clock. It has been no hassle in the last 23k miles, costing me a couple of oil changes, a front spring and a drop link on the rear roll bar. I meet a lot of people who think I am loaded as it has a jag badge on it. truth is it probably cost half as much to buy as their focus or such like lost in depreciation last year. I do have the advantage of being able to fix cars myself which helps but even so how much would it cost to have a spring changed?

[neil1jnr]

Buy what you WANT new or old. If you can afford it, then do it.

Too many on here can't stomach a bit a of depreciation. It's a cost, not a 'loss' as most make out. If you are buying a new car you should be aware of this cost.

There are quite a few slating new cars on here too, those that drive around in 10-15 year old cars. Guess what, I bet in 10-15 years time, these same cars will be praised up on forums and the new cars of the time will then be bashed again because they are 'boring' and 'you lose too much money'.