Lane Closure - Merge In Turn - 800yds or at closure?
Discussion
The main issue either way is people are largely incapable of doing things right.
Merging means some wallys jump on the break and slow right down which causes tailbacks, and if people are being orderly and merging early and keeping it flowing invariably one person will see an opportunity to make up 25 seconds, jump into a gap that isnt there, and slow it all down.
Merging means some wallys jump on the break and slow right down which causes tailbacks, and if people are being orderly and merging early and keeping it flowing invariably one person will see an opportunity to make up 25 seconds, jump into a gap that isnt there, and slow it all down.
A related post I made on another thread about Self-Appointed Road Police AKA lane blockers some months ago...
OpulentBob said:
YOU'VE PAID FOR BOTH LANES. USE THEM.
I design roads and traffic management arrangements (roadworks layouts) for a living, I've done it for 15 years.
The merge is where it is because that is the most appropriate location to merge. You may not understand the reasons for it, but there WILL be reasons it is where it is. White Knights/SARPs are absolutely not welcome, not helpful, and in many cases actually increase the risk by holding up traffic and forcing merges/queues away from the designated, agreed point. Agreed with various highway authorities, AND THE POLICE. The real police, not the self-appointed lot.
If a left-hander gets offended, or thinks the right-handers are getting an unfair advantage, then that's their problem. They are wrong. They choose to queue in the left lane when the right hand lane is clear, then they are idiots and their opinion doesn't count.
I design roads and traffic management arrangements (roadworks layouts) for a living, I've done it for 15 years.
The merge is where it is because that is the most appropriate location to merge. You may not understand the reasons for it, but there WILL be reasons it is where it is. White Knights/SARPs are absolutely not welcome, not helpful, and in many cases actually increase the risk by holding up traffic and forcing merges/queues away from the designated, agreed point. Agreed with various highway authorities, AND THE POLICE. The real police, not the self-appointed lot.
If a left-hander gets offended, or thinks the right-handers are getting an unfair advantage, then that's their problem. They are wrong. They choose to queue in the left lane when the right hand lane is clear, then they are idiots and their opinion doesn't count.
Snappy89 said:
I try and use all the lane up to the merge point, but that has become increasingly difficult in recent years.
It's already been said but merging in early only serves to increase the tailback and make everyone's journey longer. That being said it does tend to offend various angry little men from time to time. Recently on the A38(S) approaching Burton, an accident and subsequent central reservation barrier repairs led to a closure of lane 2.
The result was a tailback of over a mile in lane 1 PRIOR to the merge point itself. Myself along with a few other motorists keen not to be sat all day in traffic took the initiative to use the rest of lane 2. All was going well until some t
t in an HGV swung out into lane 2 and then rode both lanes in order to not let us pass safely. I suspect this easily added about 15 minutes to my journey.
Surely that should be classed as dangerous.
It's cretinous behaviour of the absolute highest order.It's already been said but merging in early only serves to increase the tailback and make everyone's journey longer. That being said it does tend to offend various angry little men from time to time. Recently on the A38(S) approaching Burton, an accident and subsequent central reservation barrier repairs led to a closure of lane 2.
The result was a tailback of over a mile in lane 1 PRIOR to the merge point itself. Myself along with a few other motorists keen not to be sat all day in traffic took the initiative to use the rest of lane 2. All was going well until some t
t in an HGV swung out into lane 2 and then rode both lanes in order to not let us pass safely. I suspect this easily added about 15 minutes to my journey. Surely that should be classed as dangerous.
I experienced it a while back as there were roadworks on the A316 taking it from two lanes to one, for a short distance. Some middle-aged gormless looking d
head in a 4x4 decided to straddle both lanes to stop people from passing him and merging. Lucky for me there was still room to his left for me to zip past. I could practically see the steam spewing from his ears. It felt good.Depthhoar said:
However, have a look at this from the 'States on 'zipper merging'. It sets out the logical case for late merging but I've got a feeling Brits still won't like it, no matter how scientific! Found here:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/zippermerge/
Personally, I've found less late merging here in Scotland than in Englandshire, which I've always attributed to the Scots being more courteous, or least trying to show courtesy to other road users (albeit mistakenly).
Edited by Depthhoar on Tuesday 19th August 10:35
There's long term works at the top of the A350 where it meets the M4 at the moment so two lanes merge to one
Even with something like five pairs of huge yellow signs saying "USE BOTH LANES WHEN QUEUING" there's usually a huge queue in lane one and someone is straddling/blocking both lanes trying to stop people using the road correctly
Some people are just incurably stupid...
Even with something like five pairs of huge yellow signs saying "USE BOTH LANES WHEN QUEUING" there's usually a huge queue in lane one and someone is straddling/blocking both lanes trying to stop people using the road correctly
Some people are just incurably stupid...
I'm not sure why merging later helps traffic flow quicker. The speed of the traffic is limited to the speed through the section that is down to one lane. Any further delays will only be caused by the various machinations of merging traffic but these would be smoothed out if they happened well prior to the single lane section. By doing the merging right at the start of the single lane section you must be either causing no further delay if it's done neatly or some further delay if people get a bit aggressive/defensive...I don't see how you can reduce the delay by doing that.
OpulentBob said:
A related post I made on another thread about Self-Appointed Road Police AKA lane blockers some months ago...
Agree. If the 'left-hander' gets offended, they need to examine their life.OpulentBob said:
YOU'VE PAID FOR BOTH LANES. USE THEM.
I design roads and traffic management arrangements (roadworks layouts) for a living, I've done it for 15 years.
The merge is where it is because that is the most appropriate location to merge. You may not understand the reasons for it, but there WILL be reasons it is where it is. White Knights/SARPs are absolutely not welcome, not helpful, and in many cases actually increase the risk by holding up traffic and forcing merges/queues away from the designated, agreed point. Agreed with various highway authorities, AND THE POLICE. The real police, not the self-appointed lot.
If a left-hander gets offended, or thinks the right-handers are getting an unfair advantage, then that's their problem. They are wrong. They choose to queue in the left lane when the right hand lane is clear, then they are idiots and their opinion doesn't count.
I design roads and traffic management arrangements (roadworks layouts) for a living, I've done it for 15 years.
The merge is where it is because that is the most appropriate location to merge. You may not understand the reasons for it, but there WILL be reasons it is where it is. White Knights/SARPs are absolutely not welcome, not helpful, and in many cases actually increase the risk by holding up traffic and forcing merges/queues away from the designated, agreed point. Agreed with various highway authorities, AND THE POLICE. The real police, not the self-appointed lot.
If a left-hander gets offended, or thinks the right-handers are getting an unfair advantage, then that's their problem. They are wrong. They choose to queue in the left lane when the right hand lane is clear, then they are idiots and their opinion doesn't count.
Personally I think they should change the law to make zipper merging a legal requirement with points for being a dick and not letting someone in. Educate people in an gov online/tv ad with Martin and Mary the Merging Motorists, and have a few cartoon ads on how to do it and for everyone to attempt to maintain a constant speed and gaps while it all happens.
Probably wouldn't work but given it's such a big cause of traffic jams it's got to be worth a shot.
Probably wouldn't work but given it's such a big cause of traffic jams it's got to be worth a shot.
I''m driving an X5 at the moment and believe me, I get more st than anyone when I hang out in the open lane and merge at the cones. I am always sensible in terms of trundling along at a slow speed and never trying to force a gap, but I'll always get blocked. It's become a source of amusement rather than frustration. I had it yesterday on the M6 Eastbound towards Coventry where Lanes 3/4 merge... gaps had opened up nicely and a procession of 6-7 cars in each lane were about to zip merge, when the woman in the white TT sitting just behind me tears up alongside me to close the gap.
My favourite place at the moment is the A460 at Featherstone where they have recently rearranged the two lanes Northbound through the lights, only for the left lane to close into the right, contrary to convention... still everyone piles into the left hand land and then get woken up when they realise they have to merge.
t than anyone when I hang out in the open lane and merge at the cones. I am always sensible in terms of trundling along at a slow speed and never trying to force a gap, but I'll always get blocked. It's become a source of amusement rather than frustration. I had it yesterday on the M6 Eastbound towards Coventry where Lanes 3/4 merge... gaps had opened up nicely and a procession of 6-7 cars in each lane were about to zip merge, when the woman in the white TT sitting just behind me tears up alongside me to close the gap.My favourite place at the moment is the A460 at Featherstone where they have recently rearranged the two lanes Northbound through the lights, only for the left lane to close into the right, contrary to convention... still everyone piles into the left hand land and then get woken up when they realise they have to merge.
Blayney said:
Merged just after the 400 board today. The queue behind was probably 2 miles. No way I'm sitting in that.
If that's true I may well have done the same I guess but it is interesting how we behave differently behind the anonymity of a car.As in, would you push into any other type of queue apart from a traffic jam, on the basis that it was too long for you?
T0MMY said:
Blayney said:
Merged just after the 400 board today. The queue behind was probably 2 miles. No way I'm sitting in that.
If that's true I may well have done the same I guess but it is interesting how we behave differently behind the anonymity of a car.As in, would you push into any other type of queue apart from a traffic jam, on the basis that it was too long for you?
T0MMY said:
As in, would you push into any other type of queue apart from a traffic jam, on the basis that it was too long for you?
You mean, if the post office normally has two windows, with separate queues, but today one is closed, and they've put up ten signs between the entrance of the building and the service windows saying "use both queues and take it in turns at the front", and the post office security guards publish a little book of rules to follow (called the "My Way Code") that says "when one window is closed use both queues and take it in turns at the front"?Yes, I'd join whatever queue is shorter and wouldn't expect idiots to start tutting and acting like heroes because they can't follow clear and simple instructions...
marmitemania said:
T0MMY said:
Blayney said:
Merged just after the 400 board today. The queue behind was probably 2 miles. No way I'm sitting in that.
If that's true I may well have done the same I guess but it is interesting how we behave differently behind the anonymity of a car.As in, would you push into any other type of queue apart from a traffic jam, on the basis that it was too long for you?
kwits.
marmitemania said:
T0MMY said:
Blayney said:
Merged just after the 400 board today. The queue behind was probably 2 miles. No way I'm sitting in that.
If that's true I may well have done the same I guess but it is interesting how we behave differently behind the anonymity of a car.As in, would you push into any other type of queue apart from a traffic jam, on the basis that it was too long for you?
With regards to your question about would I jump into a queue if I wasn't in a car. No I wouldn't if it was a queue for a service... like paying in tesco (although I use self service normally) or something. However this isn't a very good comparison, I wouldn't jump a queue for the toll booth after the severn bridge and that is in my car. I would however walk up the left lane of an escalator while other people choose to stand on the right. If people are walking slowly in front of me on the pavement and I can pass them I will, life is too short.
With regards to the second post I merged (and always do) perfectly safely with plenty of indication as to what I was doing, I travelled at what I deemed to be a safe speed differential in the outside lane. I do not drive a German car, it is not a 2.0 tdi and I don't think I am the most important person in the world - I just want to get home.
Above someone who designs these systems posted that they are intended for people to merge at the merge point, how is it hard to understand that.
the_lone_wolf said:
T0MMY said:
As in, would you push into any other type of queue apart from a traffic jam, on the basis that it was too long for you?
You mean, if the post office normally has two windows, with separate queues, but today one is closed, and they've put up ten signs between the entrance of the building and the service windows saying "use both queues and take it in turns at the front", and the post office security guards publish a little book of rules to follow (called the "My Way Code") that says "when one window is closed use both queues and take it in turns at the front"?Yes, I'd join whatever queue is shorter and wouldn't expect idiots to start tutting and acting like heroes because they can't follow clear and simple instructions...
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