RE: RHD Ford Mustang begins testing

[P-Jay]

GTEYE said:

P-Jay said:

I'm not expert of course, but I can't see it being a mainstream seller - it's too euro for the type of person who'd buy a Mustang / Harley, drinks only Budwiser and wears jerseys of obscure American sports teams no one this side of the Atlantic knows - for that type of diehard Americana lover the thought of LHD wouldn't put them off much anyway.

For the average Brit buyer it's got the wrong badge and the 'Mustang' name would be a turn-off anyway.

I think it'll be the next Monaro, admired by many, bought by few.

If its the same or similar size to the previous Mustang, I think you may be right. They are quite large on European roads, car parks etc, obviously not a problem back in the States.

As they 'that' massive these days - or perhaps should I say are our Euroboxes that small anymore? - We live in a world where a 2014 'Mini' Countryman is wider and almost as long as a Rover SD1.

[PAULJ5555]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Have you actually seen a 2015 Mustang? It's very different from the great 2005 model.

The question is going to be how many people really want to buy a Mondeo Coupe/Convertible with an eco-weenie 4-pot turbo...

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/02/28/2015-ford-musta...

I can't see much "Mustang" in that TBH.

Looks a bit jap to me.

[jamieduff1981]

J4CKO said:

jamieduff1981 said:

Gecko1978 said:

Dr G said:

Duratec turbo version widely rumoured/reported to start at 30k.

excuse the ignorance but is the the engin in the focus ST so a 2.5 4pot turbo with say 300bhp or do the engines come in larger sizes. I am just wondering what affect on performance the extra weight would have.

The base model will get the 2.whatever litre Inline 4 turbocharged "Ecoboost" engine, which will produce about 300bhp.

I'm sure it will do everything perfectly adequately. Mustangs to me are not about being perfectly adequate, they're a symbol or an emotive sort of purchase. If I bought one, it would only be the 5.0 litre V8 version.

300 bhp only adequate ? 0-60 in just over 5 and 100 in 12 something.

I would say its a bit more than adequate, and I suspect will be tuneable to not far off V8 levels of power.


I don't think they will plummet in value, the current Mustangs for sale seem to hold their value very well, maybe being a more mainstream product will affect that but I think supply will be fairly limited for a couple of years, I don't think they will be a common sight.

I don't really think the power is relevant. The fact is that it's a 4-pot turbo with the sort of charisma that could make a teenager go droopy whilst fondling boobs.

The "Well actually" history of the odd I6 or even I4 Mustang in the past which incidently nobody wants or cares about nowadays doesn't change the fact that a turbocharged I4 is about as white-goods as an engine can get nowadays, and totally contrary to the whole ethos of a Mustang.

It may help sell some more to the sort of people who wash the car with a brush and try to pour oil in the dipstick hole and that's fine. For me, personally, I wouldn't buy a new I4 turbocharged Mustang if it cost £20,000. It's just a car. It has a Mustang badge, but it's an economy driven facsimile of a Mustang.

You can already get a TTS with a 4banger turbo in it. It produces good brochure figures too. It's still a car for people who want to feign an interest in cars. It's about as inspiring to drive as a Nissan Note. The performance is irrelant. It's just boring and makes muted wooshy noises, not obnoxious burbling.

[Tom74]

I was behind a LHD one of these on the drive to work this morning, lovely rumble from the V8. The car did not seem 'oversized' for the road, it looked smaller than a current Mondeo for example.

As said above, pricing will be key to shift units, why would you have a Focus ST when you could have a Mustang!

Focus ST-3

Base Price £25,795
Total added features £3,290
Total Price £29,085

OK not massively comparable, but if there only a couple of grand in it it may sway the doubters...

[morgs_]

Gecko1978 said:

Dr G said:

Duratec turbo version widely rumoured/reported to start at 30k.

excuse the ignorance but is the the engin in the focus ST so a 2.5 4pot turbo with say 300bhp or do the engines come in larger sizes. I am just wondering what affect on performance the extra weight would have.

Focus ST is now a 2.0 4pot turbo with 250PS (circa 248bhp). As others have mentioned, the Mustang will have a 2.3 4pot turbo with circa 310bhp, that will almost certainly have Mountune fiddling with it at some point. Weight on the ST is 1437kgs and the Mustang is 1602 kg. With 365 lb ft vs 265 lb ft as well , the Mustang EcoBoost should still be fairly responsive!

tram50 said:

As much as it would be good to see something a bit different on the roads, I don't think they'll sell too many. I've just spent 2 weeks driving a brand new Camaro around the States and was mostly impressed with it (V6, 300ish bhp). Perfectly suited to US roads (they don't have pot holes) but I wouldn't want one for my commute to work over here. Its much like how Harleys look at home on a long Interstate but not on a twisty UK country road.

I think price aside, this will be key to how well it does. The reports are that Ford are working very hard to make it work in Europe from a handling point of view, if they can get it right I think they will do well. I'd also say comparing a Camaro to a Mustang is a bit unfair. They will certainly be similar, but they are a different car from a different manufacturer. Just look at Merc/Audi/BMW, same basic recipe on the whole, but can produce very different driving experiences.

Ozzie Osmond said:

Have you actually seen a 2015 Mustang? It's very different from the great 2005 model.

The question is going to be how many people really want to buy a Mondeo Coupe/Convertible with an eco-weenie 4-pot turbo...

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/02/28/2015-ford-musta...

I can't see much "Mustang" in that TBH.

Appearances are a personal thing, so I can't comment on what you think of it, but personally I think it looks awesome (I much prefer the coupe). I saw it in the flesh a couple of weeks back and to me, as much as I loved the pictures, it looks loads better in the flesh. Clichéd I know. As for being a Mondeo, that's just a crass statement. I'm not sure when 310bhp became weenie, but the States are reporting that they are selling well and that's the market you'd probably think they'd be least likely to sell.


I really hope they get the pricing right, the figures someone mentioned of circa £26,000 and circa £32,000 would be great. Whether they are a reality, we'll just have to keep waiting.

Edited to add I would still want the V8!

Edited by morgs_ on Tuesday 19th August 12:51

[wooooody]

They had at least one on display on the Ford stand during the commonwealth games. Not quite as appealing in the flesh IMO.

[morgs_]

Monsterlime said:

I was talking to one of the Ford chaps at Goodwood, and apparently the first 500 cars are all sold in the UK, and so far none of the buyers have even sat in a LHD model and Goodwood was the first time some of them had seen it up close!

While I am quite interested in the Mustang, I am not prepared to commit my cash to car I haven't even sat in, let alone driven.

130(ish) of those coming to the UK, out of the 500 for Europe. No one has actually put any money down yet, they just have a reservation of one of the UK allocated cars.

[V8Bart]

Black GT500 hard top with straight through pipes please.

A V8 with at line lock button!!! as the saying goes, "Shut up and take my money"

[PhantomPH]

eliotrw said:

PhantomPH said:

Stick around - I expect these things will depreciate like a brick out of a first floor window. I would throw it in with the other fast Fords when it comes to depreciation - and they are not usually renowned for holding their value (trust me - I've had a couple!)

Looks at prices of:

Puma FRS
Sierra Cosworth
Escort Cosworth
Ford RS200
Sierra RS500
Focus RS mk1
Focus RS mk2
Focus RS 500

Tell mre more about this Fast ford depreciation you speak of because I've never seen it.

I doubt these will bomb.

As it stands the price of a Focus RS MK1 and the Escort Cosworth is frankly RETARDED when placed next to the pricing of a R33 GTR Nismo or a Subaru Impreza P1 both far better and more special but also a lot cheaper.

Ahhh, so I have to commit to owning the 'Stang for 20 years in order to see the values rise back up. Gotcha!

Hardly comparing like-for-like, folks. The new Mustang is the same bracket of car as a Mondeo ST, Vectra VXR, Mazda MPS....the values will follow the same pattern.

Edited by PhantomPH on Tuesday 19th August 13:43

[chr15b]

Tom74 said:

I was behind a LHD one of these on the drive to work this morning, lovely rumble from the V8. The car did not seem 'oversized' for the road, it looked smaller than a current Mondeo for example.

As said above, pricing will be key to shift units, why would you have a Focus ST when you could have a Mustang!

Focus ST-3

Base Price £25,795
Total added features £3,290
Total Price £29,085

OK not massively comparable, but if there only a couple of grand in it it may sway the doubters...

they dont sell for that price though. collegue sat next to me very recently bought an ST-3, factory build with almost every extra and it was under £23k by the time discounds and what-not had been applied.

[michaelcolby83]

tram50 said:

As much as it would be good to see something a bit different on the roads, I don't think they'll sell too many. I've just spent 2 weeks driving a brand new Camaro around the States and was mostly impressed with it (V6, 300ish bhp). Perfectly suited to US roads (they don't have pot holes) but I wouldn't want one for my commute to work over here. Its much like how Harleys look at home on a long Interstate but not on a twisty UK country road.

If they get the price right, I think these will sell well in Britain, they could be like a new Capri or rear wheel drive Sierra RS Cosworth, they were both a fairly common sight on the road in their day. Ford sells more cars in Britain than anyone, and fast Fords usually sell well in Britain so the "it's the wrong badge" argument isn't strictly true. Also Fords are cheaper to buy, buy parts for and service than BMWs etc. so the fact "it's the wrong badge" has benefits for those of us who don't have money to burn.

I think, if priced right, the 2.3 turbo could sell very well here, great looks, rear wheel drive, manual, relatively cheap to buy and service, reasonably cheap to fuel if taking it steady so can be used as a daily driver for people who do relatively high miles, and performance like an E46 M3 when blasting it. They'll be a bit like a modern Sierra RS Cosworth whaletail for the fast Ford boys (and there are plenty of them in Britain), 4 pot turbo, rear wheel drive, manual.

The V8 ones will have that American V8 musclecar burble and will have awesome performance.

When the prices come down I will own one.

[kinghottinger]

Nors said:

Whilst I like these and think offering RHD for once is a great thing, I can't help thinking being an American built Ford, it will be held together with stickyback plastic and will rattle itself to bits in the first 6 months!

Couldn't be further from the truth in my experience with a 2007 GT

[Prawnboy]

jamieduff1981 said:

The "Well actually" history of the odd I6 or even I4 Mustang in the past which incidently nobody wants or cares about nowadays doesn't change the fact that a turbocharged I4 is about as white-goods as an engine can get nowadays, and totally contrary to the whole ethos of a Mustang.

.

is it? i always looked at mustangs as blue collar power for cheap, the same way we think of hot hatches over here. So in that respect we are getting a RWD 310HP 'stang for the same price as a GTI. That is for filling it's role perfectly.

I think people get confused between the mountains of entry level mustangs sold over the years Vs the really cooking ones, and the tuning scene.

For 2015 a 310HP 4 pot is totally appropriate in a blue collar hero, (especially when everyone else will be buying 420d's for the same money).

PS: mine will be a V8, because i'm used to running a V8.

[J4CKO]

"its the wrong badge" ?

Is it still the case that after all these years people still cant get enough of Audi's, BMW's and Mercs, i.e. "the right badge" ?

To be honest I think "Mustang" and "Ford" make quite a nice change after bloody years upon years of German dieselness, I don't think they are even that premium these days, resolutely mainstream nowadays. But I guess people will still choose a FWD 2 litre A5 for the same money, nice enough but, yawn.

[kambites]

For me the Mustang badge certainly carries far more emotive appeal than "M4", "C63" or "RS5", let alone 435i.

[jamieduff1981]

kambites said:

For me the Mustang badge certainly carries far more emotive appeal than "M4", "C63" or "RS5", let alone 435i.

Same here. There's nothing wrong with the German stuff, but it's just so obvious and played out that having one says nothing about your personality. The German stuff all takes itself way too seriously, or maybe it's the owners. I don't know.

When I hear someone has a German car I think CO2/MPG/residual values/reliability (although perceptions versus reality is not lost on me)/practicality/premium-dream-image/new-build 'luxury home' housing estate/cockerpoo dog.

When I hear someone has bought a Mustang I think that someone knows what he/she likes and just went and did it - a character trait I admire immeasurably more than living-by-numbers.

[PanzerCommander]

J4CKO said:

"its the wrong badge" ?

Is it still the case that after all these years people still cant get enough of Audi's, BMW's and Mercs, i.e. "the right badge" ?

To be honest I think "Mustang" and "Ford" make quite a nice change after bloody years upon years of German dieselness, I don't think they are even that premium these days, resolutely mainstream nowadays. But I guess people will still choose a FWD 2 litre A5 for the same money, nice enough but, yawn.

Sadly I think so, it has probably gotten worse. Why else would people buy base spec Audi A3’s when you can have a top of the range Kia Cee'd with all the options for less money.

Getting people out of frankly bland and boring looking “premium brands”. into Mustangs will be hard work because it has the wrong badge. People aren't educated enough about American cars; there are plenty of people that still think the Mustang I have has leaf springs on the rear and they are genuinely surprised when I tell them it has coil springs.

I can just see it on Top gear now:

“Yesssss the new mustang is very good, very good indeed. However, it isn’t a patch on the <insert generic £60k plus German super saloon here>, the Americans still haven’t caught up with the Europeans”

[jamieduff1981]

PanzerCommander said:

J4CKO said:

"its the wrong badge" ?

Is it still the case that after all these years people still cant get enough of Audi's, BMW's and Mercs, i.e. "the right badge" ?

To be honest I think "Mustang" and "Ford" make quite a nice change after bloody years upon years of German dieselness, I don't think they are even that premium these days, resolutely mainstream nowadays. But I guess people will still choose a FWD 2 litre A5 for the same money, nice enough but, yawn.

Sadly I think so, it has probably gotten worse. Why else would people buy base spec Audi A3’s when you can have a top of the range Kia Cee'd with all the options for less money.

Getting people out of frankly bland and boring looking “premium brands”. into Mustangs will be hard work because it has the wrong badge. People aren't educated enough about American cars; there are plenty of people that still think the Mustang I have has leaf springs on the rear and they are genuinely surprised when I tell them it has coil springs.

I can just see it on Top gear now:

“Yesssss the new mustang is very good, very good indeed. However, it isn’t a patch on the <insert generic £60k plus German super saloon here>, the Americans still haven’t caught up with the Europeans”

I'd like you to be wrong, but thinking about it, there is so much bks gets talked on PH about various attributes of cars which the posters claim to know a bit about that Joe Public has no chance frankly.

I tend to pick up on Jaguar bks predominantely, because that's where a lot of my nerdiness lies at present but the number of PHers who think:

The Jag V6 is the same as the Ford V6
The X-Type/S-Type are a Mondeo
The X-Type/S-Type are a Lincoln LS
There is no mid-size petrol XF available at the moment
There is no compact exec Jag planned to replace the X-Type
etc etc etc

is frankly depressing. If so-called car-enthusiasts can be so vocally ignorant then really how can anything without a German badge succeed? Even when PH is full of posts expressing disappointment in the latest BMW 3-series and how lack-lustre it is to drive, they'll still pre-judge anything non-German to be inferior and buy the German stuff anyway.

[aka_kerrly]

FlashBastd said:

They won't do the values of 2005 on LHD Mustangs and favours!

Sounds good to me as I think the 05> Mustangs are very appealing!

Always fun to see that all the experts who already know that the car will handle crap, fall apart and roll out as many other tired cliché thrown at US cars as they can think of.

The figure in the article about the % sold outside of the US is staggering, if barely 2% are sold abroad I find it even more amazing that people all around the world know a Mustang is a car!

[RichwiththeS2000]

If the V8 comes out less than 30k, I'd very much like to buy one. Always loved Mustangs :]