RE: RHD Ford Mustang begins testing
Discussion
irocfan said:
RichwiththeS2000 said:
A GT V8 Mustang in the US starts at $31,210 - thats about £18k. They are not considered an expensive car by any stretch. Even if you add on 20% for VAT/rip off mode in the UK thats still less than £22k. Just depends how greedy/ambitious Ford want to go (or any other BS charges we get stitched up with here)!
yes but the actual cost to a Yank given their wages, is the equivalent of £31k(ish) to us. That being said I still think the UK will be ripped a new one when it comes to pricingOzzie Osmond said:
I hope all the people dribbling over this Mustang have a good explanation for why they haven't already bought a £38,000 V8 Camaro....
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/chevrolet/camaro/8478...
yes, a pretty good one.http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/chevrolet/camaro/8478...
It's a different bloody car!
If someone was awaiting the new M4 earlier this year would you have asked why they haven't bought the equivalent Merc or Audi?
jamieduff1981 said:
I'd like you to be wrong, but thinking about it, there is so much bol**** gets talked on PH about various attributes of cars which the posters claim to know a bit about that Joe Public has no chance frankly.
I tend to pick up on Jaguar boll*** predominantely, because that's where a lot of my nerdiness lies at present but the number of PHers who think:
The Jag V6 is the same as the Ford V6
The X-Type/S-Type are a Mondeo
The X-Type/S-Type are a Lincoln LS
There is no mid-size petrol XF available at the moment
There is no compact exec Jag planned to replace the X-Type
etc etc etc
is frankly depressing. If so-called car-enthusiasts can be so vocally ignorant then really how can anything without a German badge succeed? Even when PH is full of posts expressing disappointment in the latest BMW 3-series and how lack-lustre it is to drive, they'll still pre-judge anything non-German to be inferior and buy the German stuff anyway.
Pease tell us why the v6 xtype is so special then.I tend to pick up on Jaguar boll*** predominantely, because that's where a lot of my nerdiness lies at present but the number of PHers who think:
The Jag V6 is the same as the Ford V6
The X-Type/S-Type are a Mondeo
The X-Type/S-Type are a Lincoln LS
There is no mid-size petrol XF available at the moment
There is no compact exec Jag planned to replace the X-Type
etc etc etc
is frankly depressing. If so-called car-enthusiasts can be so vocally ignorant then really how can anything without a German badge succeed? Even when PH is full of posts expressing disappointment in the latest BMW 3-series and how lack-lustre it is to drive, they'll still pre-judge anything non-German to be inferior and buy the German stuff anyway.
PanzerCommander said:
The Eco boost premium with 300hp comes in at a starting price $29170 with the same level of kit as the GT. The base 2 series (228i) is $32100, or a 320i at $32750.
When you compare US prices to US prices you can see how much better value the Mustang is.
I just cannot see why if you were looking at this level of performance you would pay (by the time it gets to the UK) £20,000+ more for a heavier, less fuel efficient, slightly slower, more expensive to run European car.
So contrary to your argument if the Eco-boost is around £30k it will be even better value in the UK than in the USA.When you compare US prices to US prices you can see how much better value the Mustang is.
I just cannot see why if you were looking at this level of performance you would pay (by the time it gets to the UK) £20,000+ more for a heavier, less fuel efficient, slightly slower, more expensive to run European car.
A 428i has a starting price of £41,995, so the Ford could be over £10,000 cheaper.
so in the pointless exchange rate argument, in the USA you can save $3000, (with your figures above), While in the UK it could be over $15,000 savings, nice.
kinghottinger said:
Nors said:
Whilst I like these and think offering RHD for once is a great thing, I can't help thinking being an American built Ford, it will be held together with stickyback plastic and will rattle itself to bits in the first 6 months!
Couldn't be further from the truth in my experience with a 2007 GTI bought it because I wanted to scratch my V8 itch but hadn't expected it to be built so well and be such a great driver. It's huge and LHD yet I have no problem threading it through London traffic and anyone that has tried to take me on at the traffic lights has been left behind in my wheelspin marks
I do have a problem parking it from time to time tho'
Crafty_ said:
If it was the 70s/80s then I could see your point. Nowadays ? its just a car.
Go to the states, you see young guys, 40s businessmen/women, old grannies driving mustangs. Its like a focus here.
All the "its only a $20k car in the USA" stuff is meaningless - its a different economy, in any case buying cars is relatively rare, most lease.
£35k+ is a lot of money, but might just get a V8 car. C63 ? 50k+ how much is a M4 or whatever BMW is on the shelves these days ? Lets come down a bit - Golf R ? specced M135?
I only hope the biggest effect the UK Mustangs have is to kick start the European manufacturers in to doing more interesting things because personally I think the current new car market is pretty dire.
I agree. The Mustang though will struggle here because so many Brits view US cars as things that sit rotting on council estates. Go to the states, you see young guys, 40s businessmen/women, old grannies driving mustangs. Its like a focus here.
All the "its only a $20k car in the USA" stuff is meaningless - its a different economy, in any case buying cars is relatively rare, most lease.
£35k+ is a lot of money, but might just get a V8 car. C63 ? 50k+ how much is a M4 or whatever BMW is on the shelves these days ? Lets come down a bit - Golf R ? specced M135?
I only hope the biggest effect the UK Mustangs have is to kick start the European manufacturers in to doing more interesting things because personally I think the current new car market is pretty dire.
There are three things that I would do that I think are important for it to succeed here:
1: totally embrace that it is cheap. No w
king about trying to pitch it at buyers of German cars. Be unashamedly honest that this is about bang for buck and thrills, not trying to prove you are a better coat hanger salesman than the random stranger driving the same way. 2: get some celebrities in it and in the papers. Get it on TV being driven by an asperational character. The vast majority of modern Brits will only buy a product if they have seen someone that they masterbate over using the product.
3: as this car will need to remain its cheapness then as we Brits are snobs then offer a Lux Pack for a few K extra that will hide some of the ghastly plastic with leather etc and stick a special badge on the back that allows the owner to relax as it announces their superior buying power to other product users.
I think US muscle has always failed here because we are cheap snobs as a nation so we turn our noses up at perceived working class products like the US muscle car but could easily be bought off if the price was low enough but to date, what makes them a bargain and popular in the US hasn't ever been translated here as they end up costing far more than the market can warrant.
The Coyote engine is a brilliant unit and I'd live to see Mustangs over here.
Ozzie Osmond said:
I hope all the people dribbling over this Mustang have a good explanation for why they haven't already bought a £38,000 V8 Camaro....
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/chevrolet/camaro/8478...
It's a very good point. http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/chevrolet/camaro/8478...
It's possible to counter with several possible arguements:
No one knows it is now available in RHD? I didn't.
As it only has one engine option and that equals a £500 per annum VED can the Camaro target market, assuming value above annual income and debt purchasing afford that? At the same time, can they afford the fuel?
Is the sort of person who has £50k for a fun second car ever going to walk into a Vauxhall dealership?
I would say that the current difference between the Camaro and the Mustang is that the Mustang has a cheaper engine option that means lower running costs and that the UK market at that level knows the EcoBoost brand.
But they still need to market and price it well to get people to take the plunge.
I would also argue, and this is massively subjective, that we are more of a Ford nation then a General Motors one.
DonkeyApple said:
2: get some celebrities in it and in the papers. Get it on TV being driven by an asperational character. The vast majority of modern Brits will only buy a product if they have seen someone that they masterbate over using the product.
Fast fords and tv cop shows are a match made in heaven, the 'stang needs to be on one.spender needs to come back with a mustang:
Prawnboy said:
So contrary to your argument if the Eco-boost is around £30k it will be even better value in the UK than in the USA.
A 428i has a starting price of £41,995, so the Ford could be over £10,000 cheaper.
so in the pointless exchange rate argument, in the USA you can save $3000, (with your figures above), While in the UK it could be over $15,000 savings, nice.
No I was comparing the potential cost of a V8 Mustang (based on my previous estimate of around £35,000) in the UK to an M4 Coupe that comes in at £56,635 base price (BMWs website price).A 428i has a starting price of £41,995, so the Ford could be over £10,000 cheaper.
so in the pointless exchange rate argument, in the USA you can save $3000, (with your figures above), While in the UK it could be over $15,000 savings, nice.
croyde said:
DonkeyApple said:
No one knows it is now available in RHD? I didn't.
According to that article it isn't.I spoke to the Goodwood crew as well - I'd expect the RHD Mustang to be close to £45k for the V8. We won't get the options list (it'll be loaded as the US would say) so given how this stuff works, it'll be a fair deal (if fair is ever a word we can use here).
PhantomPH said:
AngryPartsBloke said:
PhantomPH said:
eliotrw said:
PhantomPH said:
Stick around - I expect these things will depreciate like a brick out of a first floor window. I would throw it in with the other fast Fords when it comes to depreciation - and they are not usually renowned for holding their value (trust me - I've had a couple!)
Looks at prices of:Puma FRS
Sierra Cosworth
Escort Cosworth
Ford RS200
Sierra RS500
Focus RS mk1
Focus RS mk2
Focus RS 500
Tell mre more about this Fast ford depreciation you speak of because I've never seen it.
I doubt these will bomb.
As it stands the price of a Focus RS MK1 and the Escort Cosworth is frankly RETARDED when placed next to the pricing of a R33 GTR Nismo or a Subaru Impreza P1 both far better and more special but also a lot cheaper.
Hardly comparing like-for-like, folks. The new Mustang is the same bracket of car as a Mondeo ST, Vectra VXR, Mazda MPS....the values will follow the same pattern.
Edited by PhantomPH on Tuesday 19th August 13:43
Anyway, I wonder what people who have never driven one yet contiune to slag them down will do now they can't moan about them being LHD.
Everyone moans about green cars and yet when ford and GM are willing to bring V8's to the UK they moan about them because they care more about what curtian twitchers and people they don't know think than buying a car and driving it.
So they get a 330D.
The sad truth of the matter is that (especially the V8) will drop like a stone after a couple of years because of the nature of the beast. Their inherent value might creep up once they get a bit older, but if you imagine for one second that you are somehow buying a depreciation-proof future classic, a fool and his money will be quickly parted.
You could not be more wrong.
I imagine that the same thing will happen with the firs run of VXR8's, they won't be bought over in huge numbers but the ones that do will hold thier value very well. VXR8's sell all the time for only 30% less than they were sold for new in 07-09. And they do sell at those prices.
depreciation-proof future classic? No, but it will certinley lose less of it's value than anything else at that price range.
PAULJ5555 said:
jamieduff1981 said:
I'd like you to be wrong, but thinking about it, there is so much bol**** gets talked on PH about various attributes of cars which the posters claim to know a bit about that Joe Public has no chance frankly.
I tend to pick up on Jaguar boll*** predominantely, because that's where a lot of my nerdiness lies at present but the number of PHers who think:
The Jag V6 is the same as the Ford V6
The X-Type/S-Type are a Mondeo
The X-Type/S-Type are a Lincoln LS
There is no mid-size petrol XF available at the moment
There is no compact exec Jag planned to replace the X-Type
etc etc etc
is frankly depressing. If so-called car-enthusiasts can be so vocally ignorant then really how can anything without a German badge succeed? Even when PH is full of posts expressing disappointment in the latest BMW 3-series and how lack-lustre it is to drive, they'll still pre-judge anything non-German to be inferior and buy the German stuff anyway.
Pease tell us why the v6 xtype is so special then.I tend to pick up on Jaguar boll*** predominantely, because that's where a lot of my nerdiness lies at present but the number of PHers who think:
The Jag V6 is the same as the Ford V6
The X-Type/S-Type are a Mondeo
The X-Type/S-Type are a Lincoln LS
There is no mid-size petrol XF available at the moment
There is no compact exec Jag planned to replace the X-Type
etc etc etc
is frankly depressing. If so-called car-enthusiasts can be so vocally ignorant then really how can anything without a German badge succeed? Even when PH is full of posts expressing disappointment in the latest BMW 3-series and how lack-lustre it is to drive, they'll still pre-judge anything non-German to be inferior and buy the German stuff anyway.
Do you actually have a point to make? If you do (which I doubt), is it relevant to Mustangs and the general pre-disposition to any non-German cars? I think that's a rhetorical question
willisit said:
The Camaro was engineered for RHD (like the new Vette) but Chevy decided it wouldn't sell in this generation so have decided to can the idea until the 6th Generation (2016). Then.. well, if the Mustang sells, expect a cautious RHD model.
I spoke to the Goodwood crew as well - I'd expect the RHD Mustang to be close to £45k for the V8. We won't get the options list (it'll be loaded as the US would say) so given how this stuff works, it'll be a fair deal (if fair is ever a word we can use here).
£45k I spoke to the Goodwood crew as well - I'd expect the RHD Mustang to be close to £45k for the V8. We won't get the options list (it'll be loaded as the US would say) so given how this stuff works, it'll be a fair deal (if fair is ever a word we can use here).
Might have to wait 5 years then. That's nuts when you can import a new 5.0 GT for £35k all in. OK it'll be LHD but that just adds to the kudos
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