Full Main Dealer Service History
Discussion
This is always viewed as a selling point when buying a car. I would say that even with what I am about to write I'd still probably be inclined to purchase a FMDSH car over a non, maybe for it's future value. A lot of leasing/ PCP agreements demand main dealer servicing to maintain the value. However, in my 15 years of driving I have experienced lots of issues with the work carried out by main dealers. Here are some examples:
So my point is, is there a market for a dealer that does it properly (I hear Lexus are very good)? Could you make money doing it properly?
Is a full dealer history all it is cracked up to be?
- Use of the wrong oil. Loads of them use the wrong oil, generally the cheapest they can get. Particularly damaging on cars with extended service intervals. In one case oil not changed at all!
- Wheel bolts tightened to ludicrous torque settings and other things incorrectly torqued.
- Incorrect tyre pressures set.
- In some cases completely ignoring items listed as servicing requirements, checks, lubrication of things etc.
- Washed with a yard brush, dried with sandpaper or similar. I now apply "do not wash" warnings to my car when it goes in as they genuinely cannot wash it properly.
- Misunderstanding of problems, random replacement of sensors and parts that either didn't need replacing or not replacing the ones that did.
- Bodged smart repair jobs, a dealer recently damaged my car. Had a dent taken out and then polished it like a retard leaving holograms etc. all over the place.
- Service lights not reset, or incorrectly set to the wrong interval.
So my point is, is there a market for a dealer that does it properly (I hear Lexus are very good)? Could you make money doing it properly?
Is a full dealer history all it is cracked up to be?
Agree with all of your observations.
Trouble is the great unwashed don't care about the details - they have a stamp in the service book that all is rosy and as far as they are concerned thats great.
I hate taking anything mechanical to someone to work on. I'll do everything myself where possible.
Trouble is the great unwashed don't care about the details - they have a stamp in the service book that all is rosy and as far as they are concerned thats great.
I hate taking anything mechanical to someone to work on. I'll do everything myself where possible.
Those mistakes can happen at any garage, be it a dealer or an indie, all depends on the person carrying out the service. The difference is obviously the stamp in the book...
Best thing to do is compare prices in the classifieds on models with both a FMDSH and those without and look at price differences. You will also need to take into consideration the difference in cost from a service at a main dealer vs the service at a non-main dealer.
Best thing to do is compare prices in the classifieds on models with both a FMDSH and those without and look at price differences. You will also need to take into consideration the difference in cost from a service at a main dealer vs the service at a non-main dealer.
I own a Ferrari F430 with a FFSH and have worked on several 360's with a full history, all from the same dealer. Things I have uncovered include...
- Brake fluid not changed (Should be done annually as it can gum up in the ABS module, a £1k part).
- Air filters not changed. My car had done less than 1,000 miles since the last service and when I pulled the filters out they were minging. I also pulled the air filters out of a 360 that had been serviced a month prior and they were in the same condition.
- Bolt heads rounded off. A real niggle for me, especially when you consider the dealer will have spares on the shelf and would be able to charge the customer for replacement.
- Rear brake discs fitted incorrectly (on a 360). They were bolted to the hub so that the wheel bolts holes in the disc didn't match the hub. When I tried to remove the bolts by hand (after cracking them off) they wouldn't come out. 2 min fix - why wasn't it done when the tech had trouble putting the wheels back on?!
- Rear under tray not fitted properly. It was hanging down at the front, touching the floor. How could a tech not miss this?!
- Transmission oil filter not cleaned - it still had the terrible silicone gunk on it from when it was assembled at the factory 10 years ago.
All these problems were observed on cars with FFSH from the same dealer. I am told they pay their mechanics on a piece rate so it pays them to cut corners. Personally, I prefer a Ferrari without a main dealer history - at least then you've got a better chance of having the car serviced by someone who cares what they are doing...
- Brake fluid not changed (Should be done annually as it can gum up in the ABS module, a £1k part).
- Air filters not changed. My car had done less than 1,000 miles since the last service and when I pulled the filters out they were minging. I also pulled the air filters out of a 360 that had been serviced a month prior and they were in the same condition.
- Bolt heads rounded off. A real niggle for me, especially when you consider the dealer will have spares on the shelf and would be able to charge the customer for replacement.
- Rear brake discs fitted incorrectly (on a 360). They were bolted to the hub so that the wheel bolts holes in the disc didn't match the hub. When I tried to remove the bolts by hand (after cracking them off) they wouldn't come out. 2 min fix - why wasn't it done when the tech had trouble putting the wheels back on?!
- Rear under tray not fitted properly. It was hanging down at the front, touching the floor. How could a tech not miss this?!
- Transmission oil filter not cleaned - it still had the terrible silicone gunk on it from when it was assembled at the factory 10 years ago.
All these problems were observed on cars with FFSH from the same dealer. I am told they pay their mechanics on a piece rate so it pays them to cut corners. Personally, I prefer a Ferrari without a main dealer history - at least then you've got a better chance of having the car serviced by someone who cares what they are doing...
kambites said:
Evidence of regular home servicing rates even higher for me.
Good to know. I bought my 330 almost two years ago when it had full BMW service history until the service before I bought it (done at Renault for some reason).I change the oil more regularly than the service schedule suggests, I've done loads of preventative maintenance (oil separator and various gaskets) etc. I have a huge folder full of receipts with the date/mileage written on and signed by me.
When I sold my previous BMW the seller was delighted to see such a folder. The fact it hadn't seen a dealer for over 2 years didn't bother them one bit (obviously MOTs and some MOT-related repairs were done at a garage).
I use a local indy who is very enthusiastic about regular servicing and knows quite a lot about all sorts of cars off the top of his head. He uses the best oil (and the correct oil), and has before offered me a choice between a cheaper part but likely to not be as good as the more expensive part (I went with the more expensive part).
Another guy who does private work at his own house (and by day works at a local grage specialising in BMW's, audis, mercs) serviced my wifes car on a few occasions (recommended by her dad) and I had to argue with him about the oil needing changing because the on-board computer claimed it still had 4000 miles (it was 9000 miles since the last change).
I dont worry so much about servicing stamps as more about invoices / receipts and the owners knowledge and attitude towards servicing.
Another guy who does private work at his own house (and by day works at a local grage specialising in BMW's, audis, mercs) serviced my wifes car on a few occasions (recommended by her dad) and I had to argue with him about the oil needing changing because the on-board computer claimed it still had 4000 miles (it was 9000 miles since the last change).
I dont worry so much about servicing stamps as more about invoices / receipts and the owners knowledge and attitude towards servicing.
Last yar I bought my fiesta shed at 12 years old and 90,000 miles. It had a full ford service history. I had an oil service done at a 'specialist' last year so I knew the oil was good, and this june I had a majoy done at my local independent. I know the mechanic there well and he's excellent. And the plugs and filters that came out were horrible. He said he had never seen plugs that bad and they looked like that may have been in the car since new. The dealer stamp doesn't matter to me that much, as long as it's been to the same garage and has a good level of receipts for work done, and has been serviced well. BMW have never traeted my parents badly though, but they have been customers for 20 years, so they may get special treatment.
I home service all my cars and minor repairs/brakes etc..
I always write in my service book, keep all receipts and document the history of the car entirely in my ownership.
When I come to sell, I say 'full service history' because it is a full history, even if its me doing the work and not a garage.
About main dealers, a local dealer near to me.. used a torque gun as used to fit wheel nuts when re-fitting camshaft in honda engine, looked a bit heavy handed to me.
I always write in my service book, keep all receipts and document the history of the car entirely in my ownership.
When I come to sell, I say 'full service history' because it is a full history, even if its me doing the work and not a garage.
About main dealers, a local dealer near to me.. used a torque gun as used to fit wheel nuts when re-fitting camshaft in honda engine, looked a bit heavy handed to me.
Edited by Lee540 on Tuesday 19th August 12:29
steveo3002 said:
Fast Bug said:
Really? I'd walk away from a car if it's been 'serviced' by the owner. The world is full of mechanical retards (like me!), and I'd class that as a car without any history at all
luckily not everyone that home services thier car is a retard Fast Bug said:
steveo3002 said:
Fast Bug said:
Really? I'd walk away from a car if it's been 'serviced' by the owner. The world is full of mechanical retards (like me!), and I'd class that as a car without any history at all
luckily not everyone that home services thier car is a retard steveo3002 said:
Fast Bug said:
Really? I'd walk away from a car if it's been 'serviced' by the owner. The world is full of mechanical retards (like me!), and I'd class that as a car without any history at all
luckily not everyone that home services thier car is a retard I p/xed the car six months ago and among much teeth sucking by the trader he told me my approach really affected the value of my car. And promptly bid me a mere £500 below what a FLRSH car would be worth to him. Quids in!
Depends. If it's a car I know well and the person you're buying it from clearly knows it equally well (or better) than you do and they have evidence of the parts they've bought and fitted then that's perfectly fine in my book.
If it's a car I'm not so confident in and/or there is no evidence of the work then "owner services" are worth precious little.
If it's a car I'm not so confident in and/or there is no evidence of the work then "owner services" are worth precious little.
My current car is the first car I have owned from "new" (350 miles, ex demonstrator). I told myself that I would maintain it's service history at a main Toyota dealer in order to preserve some of that value, justifying extra costs as simply part and parcel of owning a more expensive, newer car.
However, after paying £169 for nothing more than an oil change on my first service, my opinion has now changed. My second service is due and it will be taken to a reputable motorsports tuner who not only come highly recommended, but also run a modified version of my car which they take to events. I figure they'd know more about it than a main dealer.
As for not having that main dealer stamp, I reckon that anyone buying the sort of car I own might be a bit more car savvy and place more value in a stamp from such a garage over a stamp from a main dealer who probably don't see many of the car anyway.
I'll still be using genuine parts to preserve my warranty, and if all goes well with the new garage, I think warranty issues will be the only thing I'll be trusting a main dealer with again.
However, after paying £169 for nothing more than an oil change on my first service, my opinion has now changed. My second service is due and it will be taken to a reputable motorsports tuner who not only come highly recommended, but also run a modified version of my car which they take to events. I figure they'd know more about it than a main dealer.
As for not having that main dealer stamp, I reckon that anyone buying the sort of car I own might be a bit more car savvy and place more value in a stamp from such a garage over a stamp from a main dealer who probably don't see many of the car anyway.
I'll still be using genuine parts to preserve my warranty, and if all goes well with the new garage, I think warranty issues will be the only thing I'll be trusting a main dealer with again.
FWIW I service my own cars, I suppose I could get a stamp made up for £15 and stamp the book to make people feel better. Shows you what that stamped up book is worth - I know a couple of "traders" who have a box of assorted stamps for creating that "fully stamped history" that people consider so important in a car and I am sure it's quite common practice.
It hardly needs a city and guilds (or any other) qualification to carry out routine servicing, if the owner can string a sentence together and knows more than the most basic details about his car then he's probably more qualified to be servicing it than the monkeys you find in a main dealer. It would be highly dependent on talking to the chap though I think!
It hardly needs a city and guilds (or any other) qualification to carry out routine servicing, if the owner can string a sentence together and knows more than the most basic details about his car then he's probably more qualified to be servicing it than the monkeys you find in a main dealer. It would be highly dependent on talking to the chap though I think!
Fast Bug said:
Really? I'd walk away from a car if it's been 'serviced' by the owner. The world is full of mechanical retards (like me!), and I'd class that as a car without any history at all
You should probably hand in your PH card on the way out.I'm not saying true enthusiasts should know how to rebuild a gearbox but more than a passing interest in the mechanics of how things work is a big part of it.
You can sum up a private seller pretty quickly, much easier than judging the mechanical condition of a car with FSH at a dealer thats had professional valet and maybe not much else.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff