Diesels About To Get Expensive????

[SiT]

Sadly I am inbetween cars having had some motoring fellow kindly write my car off by driving into the front of me! I looking for a replacement but several people are starting to tell me that there are plans afoot to make diesels a more expensive ownership proposition??

I have Googled and can't se to find much on the subject, found some talk of emissions loading in London but that didn't concern me as I live in Somerset.

Can anyone tell me what these proposals are or how they might affect running a diesel v petrol?? I don't want to buy a diesel on the basis of better overall running costs only to find that they are taxed higher or se other extra cost.

Any info would be great.

Thanks

Si

[Baz Tench]

There was a passing mention here.

http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Personally, I think it's case of the general public overreacting as usual, and feeling 'duped' into buying diesel by the Government.

[anonymous-user]

Baz Tench said:

There was a passing mention here.

http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Personally, I think it's case of the general public overreacting as usual, and feeling 'duped' into buying diesel by the Government.

Regardless, things are going to change and most likely diesel cars will become more expensive to run. Any propspective purchaser should be aware that's all.

[r11co]

St John Smythe said:

Regardless, things are going to change and most likely diesel cars will become more expensive to run. Any propspective purchaser should be aware that's all.

Scaremongering (as Alex Salmond would say). So, congestion charges and other taxes might be tweaked to take advantage of a change in vehicle demographic (to balance out the money lost when petrol car drivers shifted to lower CO2 cars and hybrids) but don't expect a massive hike in diesel fuel excise. The haulage lobby will hear nothing of it (not to mention the disastrous effect it would have on inflation).

[unpc]

It's not going to happen overnight but it's coming. Diesels will get more expensive to meet Euro 6 no doubt. Unless you drive mega miles I wouldn't bother. Hateful things anyway.

[SiT]

Thanks for the prompt replies chaps, that link seems to talk mostly of those who live/drive in London which won't affect me.

Do we think then that diesels will be targeted in someway then other thank hiking the fuel price?

I wondered if they might alter taxation classes and separate it for petrol and diesel?

Difficult time to buy a car then really!

Si

[daemon]

St John Smythe said:

Baz Tench said:

There was a passing mention here.

http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Personally, I think it's case of the general public overreacting as usual, and feeling 'duped' into buying diesel by the Government.

Regardless, things are going to change and most likely diesel cars will become more expensive to run. Any propspective purchaser should be aware that's all.

There is a very simple rule that people should always have been following with regards to the choice between diesel and petrol :-

If you're not doing the miles, dont buy a diesel.

If you're doing in excess of 20K miles and you buy the right diesel then theres going to be a significant saving at the moment and that could take a long time to breach with increased taxes. If you're doing 10K per year and buying a diesel because you think the running costs are lower then you are disillusioned and have been for some time.

The other thing is I really cant see how they can impact diesel running costs significantly without increasing fuel duty, which will impact the transport business hard. If they start to raise road tax, well its not going to increase costs significantly unless they try to introduce something mental, and even if they were tripling them mine would still only be £90 for the year

[daemon]

SiT said:

Thanks for the prompt replies chaps, that link seems to talk mostly of those who live/drive in London which won't affect me.

Do we think then that diesels will be targeted in someway then other thank hiking the fuel price?

I wondered if they might alter taxation classes and separate it for petrol and diesel?

Difficult time to buy a car then really!

Si

How many miles do you do and whats your budget?

[SiT]

Hmmm that's interesting, read many many threads on diesel v petrol and thought the consensus was 12k plus is diesel territory which I am probably on the brink of.

At the minute I am looking for a stop gap commuter case, using some of my money I was looking at a Honda Civic Type S GT - these are available in 1.8i VTEC guise and the well used 2.2cdti engine. I can get a lower mileage 1.8i VTEC with identical spec than the cdti counterpart.

I drive 20 miles to work and 20 miles home each day, 6 days a week - the car I was using was a 2006 BMW 318ci Sport convertible which according to obc was returning 36mpg. As the chance has arisen through unfortunate circumstances to change it I would like something that betters the BMW this saving me more money which goes towards second car.

The diesel Civic puts out some pretty impressive figures all round but overall ownership could possibly be more than the 1.8??

Si

[daemon]

SiT said:

Hmmm that's interesting, read many many threads on diesel v petrol and thought the consensus was 12k plus is diesel territory which I am probably on the brink of.

At the minute I am looking for a stop gap commuter case, using some of my money I was looking at a Honda Civic Type S GT - these are available in 1.8i VTEC guise and the well used 2.2cdti engine. I can get a lower mileage 1.8i VTEC with identical spec than the cdti counterpart.

I drive 20 miles to work and 20 miles home each day, 6 days a week - the car I was using was a 2006 BMW 318ci Sport convertible which according to obc was returning 36mpg. As the chance has arisen through unfortunate circumstances to change it I would like something that betters the BMW this saving me more money which goes towards second car.

The diesel Civic puts out some pretty impressive figures all round but overall ownership could possibly be more than the 1.8??

Si

If you're only doing 10-12k a year i wouldnt even be considering a diesel.

The 1.8 VTEC petrol has an honest john real MPG figure of 40mpg. The 2.2CDTI is going to give around 48mpg, so i suspect over the 1.8 you're going to gain around 8mpg.

My son had a 1.8 VTEC and he was getting around 38mpg, went to a 120d M Sport thinking he was going to get a big fuel saving and hes getting 46mpg in it - although economy wasnt his primary reason for changing.

As you say you'll buy a younger better spec'd lower miles car for your money, compared to the diesel variant.

[SiT]

That's interesting - thanks for some real world experience on the car, I wonder what 8mpg would work out as over a month bearing in mind that diesel is dearer at the pump - I expect the 8mpg would shrink considerably!

Perhaps I will give some more thought to the 1.8, there is talk that diesels are more expensive to service too - is this a myth or only apply to certain cars?? I can't think (except DPF) that diesel would have anything additional to service between the two??

Si

[Pan Pan]

SiT said:

Sadly I am inbetween cars having had some motoring fellow kindly write my car off by driving into the front of me! I looking for a replacement but several people are starting to tell me that there are plans afoot to make diesels a more expensive ownership proposition??

I have Googled and can't se to find much on the subject, found some talk of emissions loading in London but that didn't concern me as I live in Somerset.

Can anyone tell me what these proposals are or how they might affect running a diesel v petrol?? I don't want to buy a diesel on the basis of better overall running costs only to find that they are taxed higher or se other extra cost.

Any info would be great.

Thanks

Si

I think it depends on how many miles you do, if you do high mileage especially on motorways, a diesel might be the better option, if you do average mileage, then a petrol engined car would be more suited.
I do between 37000 and 42000 miles a year, so fuel type can make a useful difference in costs.
I can get around 1000 miles per fill up with a Passat Bluemotion, and the convenience of being able to drive past fuel station, after fuel station, whilst travelling at the NSL in near silence, with the engine barely turning above idle RPM is worth considering. (Particularly useful when travelling abroad)

[SiT]

Pan Pan said:

I think it depends on how many miles you do, if you do high mileage especially on motorways, a diesel might be the better option, if you do average mileage, then a petrol engined car would be more suited.
I do between 37000 and 42000 miles a year, so fuel type can make a useful difference in costs.
I can get around 1000 miles per fill up with a Passat Bluemotion, and the convenience of being able to drive past fuel station, after fuel station, whilst travelling at the NSL in near silence, with the engine barely turning above idle RPM is worth considering. (Particularly useful when travelling abroad)

Wow that's some serious mileage a year, 1000 miles to a tank of diesel is incredible! That's better than hybrid!

It certainly needs some more though rather than a default 'I will just get a diesel as it will be more economical' type of attitude.

Si

[Dracoro]

daemon said:

There is a very simple rule that people should always have been following with regards to the choice between diesel and petrol :-

If you're not doing the miles, dont buy a diesel.

Whilst for many people that may be true to an extent, it's not quite as simple as that though, there are other factors.

For example, my wife has a Honda CRV. Putting aside the fact that she does the miles that kinda makes diesel the "sensible" choice anyway, the engine suits that type of car more than a petrol one. My wife, like many, is not one to red-line cars (unlike myself ) so having much of the power lower down/mid-range means she can make good progress. Simply put, it suits the car and the driver.

That said, if they did a larger V6 engined version with c200bhp, that would be great but there's only the 2.0 petrol or 2.2 diesel, both producing 140bhp.

Also, being a CDTi rather than the newer DTEC, there are no DpF worries!

Granted for a normal hatch (that are lighter than SUV type cars) then they go well enough without the need for tubro-chaged diesel power so a petrol would be fine unless you really do high miles.

[Dog Star]

Won't happen.

Diesel fuel in this country is already artificially expensive, and all this emissions crap is a load of old bolleaux. When push comes to shove you know what is driving all these diesel cars? A voter.

[Otispunkmeyer]

Baz Tench said:

There was a passing mention here.

http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Personally, I think it's case of the general public overreacting as usual, and feeling 'duped' into buying diesel by the Government.

They have to blame someone for their cataclysmic stupidity and not being able to sit down and do a few simple sums to work out which, out of petrol or diesel, might be a better proposition.

They see bobbins MPG claims and low RFL value and think great!

You don't need to be mechanically minded, but having an idea of how the damn things work is also useful.

[Pan Pan]

SiT said:

Pan Pan said:

I think it depends on how many miles you do, if you do high mileage especially on motorways, a diesel might be the better option, if you do average mileage, then a petrol engined car would be more suited.
I do between 37000 and 42000 miles a year, so fuel type can make a useful difference in costs.
I can get around 1000 miles per fill up with a Passat Bluemotion, and the convenience of being able to drive past fuel station, after fuel station, whilst travelling at the NSL in near silence, with the engine barely turning above idle RPM is worth considering. (Particularly useful when travelling abroad)

Wow that's some serious mileage a year, 1000 miles to a tank of diesel is incredible! That's better than hybrid!

It certainly needs some more though rather than a default 'I will just get a diesel as it will be more economical' type of attitude.

Si

The problem with hybrids is that they must also carry a heavy, space consuming set of batteries, which leaves relatively little space for a fuel tank, passengers and their luggage, so even if they do achieve good MPG, (and bear in mind you must use fuel to lug around the batteries and extra electric motors) you still end up having to go into fuel stations to fill up every few hundred miles. Which to me is often a real pain in the backside at the best of times.
But as others have posted if you drive average mileage, and generally in cities, then a petrol / petrol hybrid could be the best option. It seems to depend on A What kind of driving you do, and B whether or not you can have another possibly more impractical car, such as a sports car for high days and holidays.

[Pan Pan]

Pan Pan said:

SiT said:

Pan Pan said:

I think it depends on how many miles you do, if you do high mileage especially on motorways, a diesel might be the better option, if you do average mileage, then a petrol engined car would be more suited.
I do between 37000 and 42000 miles a year, so fuel type can make a useful difference in costs.
I can get around 1000 miles per fill up with a Passat Bluemotion, and the convenience of being able to drive past fuel station, after fuel station, whilst travelling at the NSL in near silence, with the engine barely turning above idle RPM is worth considering. (Particularly useful when travelling abroad)

Wow that's some serious mileage a year, 1000 miles to a tank of diesel is incredible! That's better than hybrid!

It certainly needs some more though rather than a default 'I will just get a diesel as it will be more economical' type of attitude.

Si

The problem with hybrids is that they must also carry a heavy, space consuming set of batteries, which leaves relatively little space for a fuel tank, passengers and their luggage, so even if they do achieve good MPG, (and bear in mind you must use fuel to lug around the batteries and extra electric motors) you still end up having to go into fuel stations to fill up every few hundred miles. Which to me is often a real pain in the backside at the best of times.
But as others have posted if you drive average mileage, and generally in cities, then a petrol / petrol hybrid could be the best option. It seems to depend on A What kind of driving you do, and B whether or not you can have another possibly more impractical car, such as a sports car for high days and holidays.

P.s I have noticed thar the price of a litre of fuel can sometimes vary quite a bit between fill ups
But 1000 miles per fill up is regularly achievable depending on load, and ibn some cases with just me in the vehicle 1100 plus could be achieved, in mixed driving but always travelling at the posted limits.and not hanging about. At idle the Passat will do 40 mph in top, and circa 34 mph in 5th.

[JamesD1]

i think most PH'ers seem to have a big dislike on deisels for no real reason. OH recently bought a diesel because it was a stock car with £3000 off and we got a great px deal there for making it cheaper than any petrol equivalent. as long as you dont pay over the odds to have a diesel over petrol you only need to do 2mpg better for it to be beneficial.

some cars are better as diesel but many are better as petrol. dont pay over the odds if you only pootle about (can have effects on dpf's,egrs etc.) i wouldn't worry about the demonisation of diesel either they wont do anything straight away.

last bit of typing, i'd much rather get a barge (pre 06) and enjoy the caterstrophic deprecitation and spend the rest of fuel and tax.

[Otispunkmeyer]

daemon said:

SiT said:

Hmmm that's interesting, read many many threads on diesel v petrol and thought the consensus was 12k plus is diesel territory which I am probably on the brink of.

At the minute I am looking for a stop gap commuter case, using some of my money I was looking at a Honda Civic Type S GT - these are available in 1.8i VTEC guise and the well used 2.2cdti engine. I can get a lower mileage 1.8i VTEC with identical spec than the cdti counterpart.

I drive 20 miles to work and 20 miles home each day, 6 days a week - the car I was using was a 2006 BMW 318ci Sport convertible which according to obc was returning 36mpg. As the chance has arisen through unfortunate circumstances to change it I would like something that betters the BMW this saving me more money which goes towards second car.

The diesel Civic puts out some pretty impressive figures all round but overall ownership could possibly be more than the 1.8??

Si

If you're only doing 10-12k a year i wouldnt even be considering a diesel.

The 1.8 VTEC petrol has an honest john real MPG figure of 40mpg. The 2.2CDTI is going to give around 48mpg, so i suspect over the 1.8 you're going to gain around 8mpg.

My son had a 1.8 VTEC and he was getting around 38mpg, went to a 120d M Sport thinking he was going to get a big fuel saving and hes getting 46mpg in it - although economy wasnt his primary reason for changing.

As you say you'll buy a younger better spec'd lower miles car for your money, compared to the diesel variant.

I have a civic 1.8

Apart from having truly dire suspension, the 1.8 is frugal as you like. In winter I've had 26 mpg from it (hand calc'd) driving around town and short distances.

Recently I have been doing many longer trips of 300-400 miles and MPG whilst sitting on the cruise control at 75 mph (indicated) is pretty good. Trip computer gave me 49 and 51 on my last two trips and as I have enough data I know you must knock maybe 4-5 mpg from those to reach a real figure. So 44 or 46 MPG.

The car seems to have gotten better with age in this respect (70k miles now).