RE: Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0: Spotted
Discussion
articulatedj said:
Once again, PH neglects to mention that the running costs are in a whole other category for the CGT.
Replacing the clutch is $25K
Replacing the brakes is $30K
An oil change is $3K
Almost every part is bespoke, so it will continue to cost a fortune to run.
Not that I don't think it's worth it, but it's apples to oranges.
Where did you get those figures from?Replacing the clutch is $25K
Replacing the brakes is $30K
An oil change is $3K
Almost every part is bespoke, so it will continue to cost a fortune to run.
Not that I don't think it's worth it, but it's apples to oranges.
The clutch and brakes may cost that but those are things that, depending on mileage, you may only have to change once in the life of the car.
Plenty of CGT's being used for decent mileage which are still on the original clutch and brakes.
For a good example of annual running costs on a car which sees a decent amount of use have a look at 456MGT's car profile here which averages £6.5K a year :
http://www.pistonheads.com/members/showcar.asp?car...
Obvioulsy not cheap but nothing at this end of the market is going to be.
Rollcage said:
Those figs in his profile - insurance seems expensive?
You're right, the CGT is now on fleet insurance and I mistakenly put in the total premium in one of the entries. Best bet is to look at the servicing costs only, since that's the most relevant piece for this discussion. That takes it to 2-3K per year over a 7 year period, which is nothing outrageous for this type of machine. Soov535 said:
J4CKO said:
So, if I had what 120/140 grand ? and could buy a new one (991) and keep it for a few years, say 5, what are the chances of getting that money back plus profit ?
Is it a no brainer or is the Porsche market so fickle that because it cant be had with a manual it will go down in value ?
How are 996 GT3's doing ?
Ninety grand.Is it a no brainer or is the Porsche market so fickle that because it cant be had with a manual it will go down in value ?
How are 996 GT3's doing ?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
I think an interest rate hike will affect these values much like property...
456mgt said:
And just to add my 2C to the original question; I don't know whether the 4.0RS is overvalued, but I'm absolutely convinced the CGT is undervalued. It's something very special indeed.
The CGT is about the only car that hasn't really been affected by this bubble. Weird really. 456mgt said:
I don't know whether the 4.0RS is overvalued, but I'm absolutely convinced the CGT is undervalued.
It does seem the odd one out when you compare it to the way the values of the F40, 959, F50, F1 and other top tier cars seem to have risen. Maybe it's just waiting its turn to get silly? The values of the F50 and F1 seemed to draw a hockey stick on the graph whereas the F40 has been more a more gradual increase.pistolp said:
The CGT is about the only car that hasn't really been affected by this bubble. Weird really.
Jaguar XJ220 and Ford GT appear to be slow burners, too. It's not uncommon, really. There are even a handful of 250 Ferraris which seem almost relatively worthless amongst their more famous brothers. 456mgt said:
And just to add my 2C to the original question; I don't know whether the 4.0RS is overvalued, but I'm absolutely convinced the CGT is undervalued. It's something very special indeed.
Have to say I do hope they stay that way (sorry owners) as it means the speculators stay away of the CGTs and they remain in the hands of enthusiasts who remain relatively less contrained to use them as the value differentials do not become hugely warped on mileage. And that would remain my view even if I did manage to get one.The point is that that running costs might be part of the reason why the 911 costs less than the CGT. You can't say the buying choice is equal because they have a similar CAPEX and then just say "at that point, money doesn't really matter." If it doesn't matter, then why compare CAPEX?
If you are just moderately wealthy, and want to run the car at the track, it's hard to just shrug off 30K brake jobs. That's one of the reasons supercars get driven so little. And for me, a car I am nervous about driving is less fun to own.
Personally, I think both will appreciate plenty. The CGT is a work of art, and the sound is one of the best noises ever to come from an automobile.
If you are just moderately wealthy, and want to run the car at the track, it's hard to just shrug off 30K brake jobs. That's one of the reasons supercars get driven so little. And for me, a car I am nervous about driving is less fun to own.
Personally, I think both will appreciate plenty. The CGT is a work of art, and the sound is one of the best noises ever to come from an automobile.
Davey S2 said:
Where did you get those figures from?
Here: http://www.roadandtrack.com/features/the-boot-high...The 4.0 RS prices are ridiculous.
As for the CGT.... I have never understood the values on these cars. It was released around the same time as the SLR and the Enzo, the former isn't particularly good on the values yet the Enzo, well that sky rocketed - Ferrari were very clever in their sales pitch to preferred customers only, it drove the perceived value up massively.
Furthermore, the CGT is a very intimidating, involving and exciting car to drive. It really is spectacular, but not for the faint hearted as we have seen from a few tragic incidences involving the CGT. The accidents along do not affect the value in my opinion, but the nature of the car puts off a lot of wealthy clients that are looking for cars to drive, as opposed to real car nuts.
The CGT along with the Ford GT are both excellent value for money at the moment and about the only place to put your money into during this bubble.
Chris
As for the CGT.... I have never understood the values on these cars. It was released around the same time as the SLR and the Enzo, the former isn't particularly good on the values yet the Enzo, well that sky rocketed - Ferrari were very clever in their sales pitch to preferred customers only, it drove the perceived value up massively.
Furthermore, the CGT is a very intimidating, involving and exciting car to drive. It really is spectacular, but not for the faint hearted as we have seen from a few tragic incidences involving the CGT. The accidents along do not affect the value in my opinion, but the nature of the car puts off a lot of wealthy clients that are looking for cars to drive, as opposed to real car nuts.
The CGT along with the Ford GT are both excellent value for money at the moment and about the only place to put your money into during this bubble.
Chris
The Pits said:
Perhaps someone who would prefer a GT3RS to a Carrera GT could explain why?
Utterly mystifying.
Perspective. On paper, in most categories there is no contest. But factor that 10 years from now the 4.0 will be worth £1m+ and there is your reason.Utterly mystifying.
The real question is in the current daft market, why is the CGT so underpriced?
articulatedj said:
Davey S2 said:
Where did you get those figures from?
Here: http://www.roadandtrack.com/features/the-boot-high...I'll repeat, my CGT has actually cost £2-3K a year in service items over my 7 year ownership period.
Davey S2 said:
I know but the 911 has always been the 'Evo' car.
The CGT always had a reputation for being very dificult and unpredictable on the limit but that now seems to have been virtually eliminated with the discovery of the new Michellin Super Sports and a decent geo.
Skip to 11:35 on this Evo vid and just listen to the noise on the downshift!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detai...
I've never liked the CGT, and I'm one of those that needs their head examined that might opt for a 4.0 RS over it, however that noise has indeed warmed me to the CGT...The CGT always had a reputation for being very dificult and unpredictable on the limit but that now seems to have been virtually eliminated with the discovery of the new Michellin Super Sports and a decent geo.
Skip to 11:35 on this Evo vid and just listen to the noise on the downshift!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detai...
yes 512tr has done rather well!
the question is is it 3 yrs or 5 yrs before these all dip down again... in the meantime enjoy owning!
the question is is it 3 yrs or 5 yrs before these all dip down again... in the meantime enjoy owning!
Chris Harris said:
2.5 Sport Evo seems to be doing okay. 512 TR? Even the old M5 has moved quite a bit. It's all ups and downs. They all get driven properly. And craving them matters far more than them appreciating.
Liking this crazy market purely because it makes for very interesting pub banter!
Liking this crazy market purely because it makes for very interesting pub banter!
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