RE: Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0: Spotted
Discussion
pistolp said:
If a 4.0 is going to go down in value then so is a GT2. It's less money for a reason too.
What I've just paid for that 4.0 is the same as what a new F12 with bits on would be. An F12 is definitely going to go down in value or most likely at least halve. A 4.0 has a very good shot at keeping on going. But my logic is as per the above, it's better to drive than an F12 (for me) and has a stronger financial case. Worst case is I've got a car I adore and its costs me money.
If someone would sell me their 4.0 for list then we wouldn't have this issue. Some of you sound like you want people to lose money!
Would you not have been tempted to go for the 3.8RS and just had the 4.0 Suspension and a 4.1 Conversion for approx 1/2 the price of a 4.0?What I've just paid for that 4.0 is the same as what a new F12 with bits on would be. An F12 is definitely going to go down in value or most likely at least halve. A 4.0 has a very good shot at keeping on going. But my logic is as per the above, it's better to drive than an F12 (for me) and has a stronger financial case. Worst case is I've got a car I adore and its costs me money.
If someone would sell me their 4.0 for list then we wouldn't have this issue. Some of you sound like you want people to lose money!
I know it would not be an offical model but still get a warranty from sharkwerks and a car with a lot more torque and 50hp than the 4.0 model. Only reason is it sounds like you plan on using a car a bit and I wondered why more people are not taking this option if that's what they plan on doing.
I've really enjoyed reading this thread over the past few days. A few thoughts:
Asking this money doesn't mean it will actually sell at this money. Cars like this are usually at OPCs on sale-or-return, so I suspect what we are seeing here is a well-regarded Porsche client trying to call the top of the market (or fund his 918 delivery) before these cars go into winter hibernation. I'm also intrigued it hasn't sold already. Every 4.0 I've seen at an OPC has previously been snapped up within 48 hours. Bubbles inflate until the last buyer has entered the market. I'm not saying this is the top but it's clear they're not queuing up out the door for this one.
It is an exceptionally well specified 4.0, with the leather and ceramic brakes, as well as other very nice-to-haves like the lifting front axle, dynamic cornering lights and upgraded sound/nav/phone options. That as well as being a right-hooker will certainly help the valuation too.
The surprising thing is that the Porsche GT cars have historically been such good value for money. That is clearly changing now. I think what is happening is part of the much bigger shift at Porsche. The GT cars used to be a 'thank you' for repeat customers and were priced at a point which guaranteed cast iron residuals. Now that Porsche production is through 200k cars per year, residuals elsewhere in the range are much softer than they were historically. At the same time, with a nicely specced new 911 now through £100k, folks have began to question the worth of the 'vanilla' car. Throw in a healthy dose of nostalgia for the manual gearbox/ Metzger engine and you have the initial fundamentals that started this bull market.
More than all of this though, I think we can 'thank' the central bankers for creating a disincentive to hold cash and inflate the price of every real asset. This is the main (and in several cases only) reason why prices of so many luxury goods trade at these stratospheric levels. The normalisation of monetary policy is what will burst this bubble.
Asking this money doesn't mean it will actually sell at this money. Cars like this are usually at OPCs on sale-or-return, so I suspect what we are seeing here is a well-regarded Porsche client trying to call the top of the market (or fund his 918 delivery) before these cars go into winter hibernation. I'm also intrigued it hasn't sold already. Every 4.0 I've seen at an OPC has previously been snapped up within 48 hours. Bubbles inflate until the last buyer has entered the market. I'm not saying this is the top but it's clear they're not queuing up out the door for this one.
It is an exceptionally well specified 4.0, with the leather and ceramic brakes, as well as other very nice-to-haves like the lifting front axle, dynamic cornering lights and upgraded sound/nav/phone options. That as well as being a right-hooker will certainly help the valuation too.
The surprising thing is that the Porsche GT cars have historically been such good value for money. That is clearly changing now. I think what is happening is part of the much bigger shift at Porsche. The GT cars used to be a 'thank you' for repeat customers and were priced at a point which guaranteed cast iron residuals. Now that Porsche production is through 200k cars per year, residuals elsewhere in the range are much softer than they were historically. At the same time, with a nicely specced new 911 now through £100k, folks have began to question the worth of the 'vanilla' car. Throw in a healthy dose of nostalgia for the manual gearbox/ Metzger engine and you have the initial fundamentals that started this bull market.
More than all of this though, I think we can 'thank' the central bankers for creating a disincentive to hold cash and inflate the price of every real asset. This is the main (and in several cases only) reason why prices of so many luxury goods trade at these stratospheric levels. The normalisation of monetary policy is what will burst this bubble.
your bang on weith one exception, i dont think the classic car market/ speculators will be able to hold their nerve before we actually see monitory policy "normalise". What i mean is, the speculators and sheep will run for cover, usually they can only hold their nerve for 2-3 years, they make cash on one car, try it with a 2nd, by this time, the plummer down the road thinks he can join the game and buys in... bang... the smart money goes quiet and everyone else thinks parachute time... but of course there wont be enough to go around... Modern cars with substantial premiums are always the first to crash... it wont be the 250gt's or 275gtbs etc... they are longer term holders.
I bought a 275 in 2010 for 870k and sold it last year for 1.75m - I'm told they are now worth 2m +. So if I still owned one I'd be more worried about a correction here. After all 10% is 200k 20% 400k etc. So if the market does correct then I'd stand to lose more here than I would with any 4.0 or 993 etc. If there is a correction then all cars will be affected. What will I do? Absolutely nothing. I've bought what I love and I plan on keeping it. Probably might add a few more if the market turns.
As for the earlier question re doing a bespoke 4.0, I did contemplate that but it never happened. The 4.4 upgrade from Manthey was 60k and so you'd be 75k say in bits to make the car. That would take you to 225k including a 3.8 RS in this market. You definitely won't get that back. I'd rather have a 4.0, you might make money but you definitely will own one of the rarest and finest Porsches ever built.
As for the earlier question re doing a bespoke 4.0, I did contemplate that but it never happened. The 4.4 upgrade from Manthey was 60k and so you'd be 75k say in bits to make the car. That would take you to 225k including a 3.8 RS in this market. You definitely won't get that back. I'd rather have a 4.0, you might make money but you definitely will own one of the rarest and finest Porsches ever built.
Chris Harris said:
Nah, I had a fantastic time and made a substantial profit. Couldn't possibly ask for more.
But a CGT for the same money is a no-brainer. One's a carbon-tubbed still-born Le Mans car. The other's a fast 911.
Have to agree with Chris, I love the GT3 rs 4.0 and will gladly give my left nut for it, in fact I will give just about anything for it, but against a CGT, that is just plain silly, even Stevie Wonder will choose the CGT all day long, and the Porsche Classic will be a close second, the 4.0 is sort of like the m3Csl well rated end if line models that sound freaging fan bleeding tastic with handling to boot that's it! But a CGT for the same money is a no-brainer. One's a carbon-tubbed still-born Le Mans car. The other's a fast 911.
Edited by Josco010 on Thursday 4th September 00:27
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