Is the new Type R concept too much of a boy racer special?

[forzaminardi]

I think it looks boy racer-y because it is a boy racer-y car. The older Type-Rs maybe didn't visually shout (if that is possible) about their identity but they were from a different era where looks were more conservative. They've always been a bit bonkers in nature - the new one underlines that visually.

On the point of 'styled to appeal to 17 year olds who can't afford to buy and run them', I think actually it's designed to appeal to 30-something year olds who remember older Type-Rs with affection and want something exciting and a bit mad because they can (disposable income, no kids, etc.) which the sniffy might see as a midlife crisis car. Getting all picky about how old you have to be to buy a certain car is not only silly (whose business is it but your own) and misguided in context of modern demographics and lifestyles.

[750turbo]

http://www.honda.co.uk/cars/campaigns/2014/civic-t...

I like it, but I am biased, and a bit old and grumpy.

[C.A.R.]

Front / rear spoiler, lightweight wheels and bright red bucket seats inside.



VS.



Waaaaay over the top.

Hot hatches are supposed to have a little sprinkling of motorsport inspiration. Check out how understated the BTCC Honda Civic is compared to it's frock-wearing Type-R roadgoing counterpart-

[neil1jnr]

forzaminardi said:

I think it looks boy racer-y because it is a boy racer-y car. The older Type-Rs maybe didn't visually shout (if that is possible) about their identity but they were from a different era where looks were more conservative. They've always been a bit bonkers in nature - the new one underlines that visually.

On the point of 'styled to appeal to 17 year olds who can't afford to buy and run them', I think actually it's designed to appeal to 30-something year olds who remember older Type-Rs with affection and want something exciting and a bit mad because they can (disposable income, no kids, etc.) which the sniffy might see as a midlife crisis car. Getting all picky about how old you have to be to buy a certain car is not only silly (whose business is it but your own) and misguided in context of modern demographics and lifestyles.

Exactly this.

Especially the end piece. Anybody can drive any type of car, yes there are stereotypes BUT too many people care about what other people think rather than thinking about what they really want. If you want a boy-racer car (as some call it) then get one, if you want a VAG like most sheep then get one if you want one.

Edited by neil1jnr on Friday 22 August 10:54

[mwstewart]

Completely agree with the above. I always thought Type-R's were boy racer cars, but there's not nessecarily anything wrong with that, it's just a different sgement of the market.

[forzaminardi]

C.A.R. said:

Front / rear spoiler, lightweight wheels and bright red bucket seats inside.



VS.



Waaaaay over the top.

Hot hatches are supposed to have a little sprinkling of motorsport inspiration. Check out how understated the BTCC Honda Civic is compared to it's frock-wearing Type-R roadgoing counterpart-

I can see the point you're making, but the comparison between a car that's 20-ish years old and one that's not yet on sale is a bit flawed. We're talking about completely different eras, tastes and conventions. If you want to get picky, then you'd have to say the 'classic' Type-R recipe is completely redundant as modern emmissions regulations and greater need for fuel economy mean the old ethos is no longer possible.

On the BTCC car, the regulations regarding aero are very limited to the point that the rear wing especially is largely cosmetic and there simply to make it look like a racing car. The Type-R concept's aero is likely to produce more downforce - a more realistic comparison would be to compare the concept with a DTM car.

[Kozy]

I like it, but I'm already a big fan of Hondas anyway, even if they are the more restrained (visually) late 90s models.

The point about even mundane cars looking sporty now is a good one, in a world where it's difficult to distinguish between a 2.0 TDI and a 4.2 V8 RS, I think manufacturers absolutely should be making the top of the range models look outrageous.

I do think there's a bit of disparity between the people the new Type R is aimed at, and the ones that can actually afford it, but I'm sure they'll sell loads regardless.

[Joeguard1990]

The rear lights though..........

[MRobbins1987]

Time will tell I suppose, I can only see it's styling putting potential suitors off... Those with 30k to spend genuinely care about image, Its a bold move from Honda...

[TheInsanity1234]

Speaking as a 16-soon-to-be-17 year old, I'd guess that I'm in the target age range, and I actually like the look of it, which is unusual because I generally despise OTT styling, especially when it's little hatchbacks with a ridiculously tuned up engine done by a chav.

The Fiat Panda 100 HP is on the border of what is acceptable for me, which means this Type R is outrageous, but at the same time, I can't stop myself from smiling a bit at it, and wondering when they hired a 17-year-old to design it

[xRIEx]

forzaminardi said:

On the point of 'styled to appeal to 17 year olds who can't afford to buy and run them', I think actually it's designed to appeal to 30-something year olds who remember older Type-Rs with affection

That doesn't scan; the old Type-Rs were in the 'subtle' camp of hot hatches, a small wing, a couple of other body changes. Those who remember the old models with fondness are likely to be the same people who think this is over the top.

[kingofdbrits]

Nezquick said:

What I don't get is that they style these cars in a way that only 17-21 year olds want to buy them. It's rare though that someone of that age can actually afford one though, let alone afford to insure it.

I had the EP3 Type R and loved it - understated, pretty fast and has aged very well IMO. The new version, whilst being quick, just doesn't float my boat (maybe because I'm now 35!). It's just too "out there" looks wise.

I agree, i'm the same age as you and i also had an EP3 and an FN2 for a combined 6 years, loved them both, but the new car is a bit too much. Now i'm a father with No 2 on the way and a bit further up the professional ladder i'd feel a right plonker picking kids up from school or attending meetings in the new Type R.

I'll be looking for a new hot hatch after christmas and this won't even be on my list.

[andrewparker]

Yeah, I guess if you wear a suit to work you probably would look a bit daft.

[DoctorX]

Joeguard1990 said:

The rear lights though..........

They are horrid, although cunningly disguised in that picture above. Any car with rear lights which stand proud of the bodywork (e.g. most Ferraris) are ruined by this IMO.

[nunpuncher]

I see no problem if it's got the nads to back the looks up. Manufacturers/tuning/styling houses used to put out factory versions of the classic hot hatches with mental body kits, just look at the Dimma 205s obviously based on the T16, they weren't any spicier though.

I'm an old fart now but i was bred on a steady diet of hot hatches having a 205GTi as my first car. About 10 years ago I had an EP3 civic and loved it. It looked plenty sporty compared to the cooking versions of the car with 17inch instead of 14 or 15inch wheels, twin stainless exhaust tips, big wing on the boot, stickers, buckets, red H badges etc. It might seem subtle now but that's only because your average 1.2 Corsa has a set of black 18inch wheels, chrome exhaust tips, side skirts, fog lights, big wing etc.

More recently I had an M135i and the looks bored me stless. Looked just like a 116i. I don't get the "Q car" thing. Other owners would also buy them shouting about "ultimate Q car" then pour the contents of their wage packet in the direction of BMW for all kinds of carbon fibre effect tat, bits of black plastic and "M Performance" stickers yet they would then rebadge it.

[DottyMR2]

forzaminardi said:

C.A.R. said:

Front / rear spoiler, lightweight wheels and bright red bucket seats inside.



VS.



Waaaaay over the top.

Hot hatches are supposed to have a little sprinkling of motorsport inspiration. Check out how understated the BTCC Honda Civic is compared to it's frock-wearing Type-R roadgoing counterpart-

I can see the point you're making, but the comparison between a car that's 20-ish years old and one that's not yet on sale is a bit flawed. We're talking about completely different eras, tastes and conventions. If you want to get picky, then you'd have to say the 'classic' Type-R recipe is completely redundant as modern emmissions regulations and greater need for fuel economy mean the old ethos is no longer possible.

On the BTCC car, the regulations regarding aero are very limited to the point that the rear wing especially is largely cosmetic and there simply to make it look like a racing car. The Type-R concept's aero is likely to produce more downforce - a more realistic comparison would be to compare the concept with a DTM car.

From looking at those pictures, the Type-R is remarkably similar to the BTCC car. Only stand out difference is the DRLs cut out and "fiddly" front and the different rear wing/lights that stadns out. The BTCC car there is also the previous Civic version so I'm sure the fiddly front end will carry over.
Apart from that, incredibly similar.

I actually quite like the new Type-R, purely on the basis Honda have had the balls to release it, they are clearly very confident in it. If it's got the "go" to match the show then it's spot on.

I like it and I'd probably happily drive one! Not from new mind, £30k is too rich for me. 5 years time second hand bargain though I suspect! Yes it's in your face but who cares really? I couldn't care less what people think of me and what I drive as long as I like it!

Edited by DottyMR2 on Friday 22 August 15:43

Edited by DottyMR2 on Friday 22 August 15:44

[forzaminardi]

xRIEx said:

forzaminardi said:

On the point of 'styled to appeal to 17 year olds who can't afford to buy and run them', I think actually it's designed to appeal to 30-something year olds who remember older Type-Rs with affection

That doesn't scan; the old Type-Rs were in the 'subtle' camp of hot hatches, a small wing, a couple of other body changes. Those who remember the old models with fondness are likely to be the same people who think this is over the top.

As I recall, most 'mainstream' hot hatches back then were pretty subtle, due to the prevailing market taste and possibly insurance costs. My point was that those who think back fondly to the old Type-Rs won't be thinking "it looked so subtle", more they will be thinking "that was a brilliant car" and want to buy into that car's successor without necessarily being fussed how it looks.

All this misses the point that relative to their contemporary market competition, the two most recent Civics look much more distinctive than any of their forerunners. It makes sense that the Type-R further expresses that. Finally, the way Honda are promoting this with advertising and PR, not to mention the apparently big effort being made on the technical side, suggests to me that the Type-R isn't going to be a mainstream product which will sell in huge numbers. It is a car that is intended to get people talking about it, as part of a wider attempt to sex up the brand. It won't do that if it's a dull looking thing which appeals to grey M&S cardigan wearers.

[MRobbins1987]

kingofdbrits said:

I agree, i'm the same age as you and i also had an EP3 and an FN2 for a combined 6 years, loved them both, but the new car is a bit too much. Now i'm a father with No 2 on the way and a bit further up the professional ladder i'd feel a right plonker picking kids up from school or attending meetings in the new Type R.

I'll be looking for a new hot hatch after christmas and this won't even be on my list.

The fn2 is bad enough for drawing attention, I get plenty of boy racer comments thrown my way and it doesn't look a million miles away from the standard car, like you the new one is way to extreme for me, I'm sure they will sell a few but its not a car that I would ever consider... They are closing the gap on supercars in performance terms but Its still a fwd family car that needs to do everything, I don't want idiots trying to race me on the road, I don't want to be getting pulled over every 5 minutes either... I think many will be sending their money towards the less brash German offerings.

Despite my reservations kids are going to love this and I do hope that it gives Honda a platform to build from...

[Ali_T]

I did think long and hard about putting a deposit on one but, at 44, I'd look a complete prat! If they did a more sensible look but the same mechanicals (ala WRX STI Spec D) I'd be tempted but I have an Alfa itch that needs scratched before then.

[okie592]

So we complain when hot hatches look dull, ie the Audi s3 then we praise them for being sleepers but still looking dull ie m135i and then we complain when they don't look dull like the new civic, car manufactures can't win apparently.

Makes lots of sense to me.