Citroen C5 - Air suspension - opinons thereof??

[JimmyTheHand]

TooMany2cvs said:

You can use the height lever for zero-hassle wheelchanging. Put it on high, put an axle stand under (the supplied jack on hydraulic Citroens used to be basically an axle stand), then drop it to flat. It lowers the other three corners and sucks the flat wheel upwards, like a cat with a hurt paw.

From what I recall of the manuals - that isn't recommend (probably not since XM or earlier). You are meant to put suspension to top then jack it from there.

[J4CKO]

Citroen Suspension, useful for making you feel like you are driving a landspeeder from Star Wars and Making kids puke, otherwise, though the ride is superb, I am not sure I like the detached feeling, especially when coupled with the hair trigger, massively servoed brakes they tend to have.

[feef]

J4CKO said:

Citroen Suspension, useful for making you feel like you are driving a landspeeder from Star Wars and Making kids puke, otherwise, though the ride is superb, I am not sure I like the detached feeling, especially when coupled with the hair trigger, massively servoed brakes they tend to have.

I'd say that in the days after the XM and Xantia, it's far less wallowy and the brakes more 'conventional' in feel than they used to. The suspension is still soft, but with Hydractive 3+ (in the C5 and C6), the ride height automatically adjusts down by 15mm at speed on the motorway, and automatically raises it by 13mm on rougher roads. You can still raise and lower it with the buttons too. With the sport mode, which introduces an additional sphere into the system, the ride is almost 'conventional' in its firmness.

[TooMany2cvs]

feef said:

and the brakes more 'conventional' in feel than they used to.

That's because, in the C5 and C6, the brakes and steering _are_ conventional, separate from the high-pressure hydraulics.

[flatso]

Citroen has painstakingly refined this unique suspension cocept over a few decades. They are absolutely reliable, much more so then most conventional systems. Mercedes and even Rolls-Royce used to put Citroen suspensions in their top end models up to the early 80's. Merceds needed a long time to develop its own airmatic.
Anyway, once you get used to the somewhat different "magic carpet" feeling nothing else even comes close to the luxuriously soft ride, and once you understand how the system works and realise that the car always maintains absolute and total contact with the street surface it also gives a nice feeling of security. Gliding by in a HP Citroen and seeing occupants of other cars with their bobbing and wobbling necks and heads you begin to ask yourself why they are putting themselves through the torture? Most people don't realise that an HP Citroen on long trips is a wellness drive, and in France a lot of orthopedists recommend them for people with back and neck problems. The old Xantia 3.0 V6 that I bought as a temporary replacement car was one of the best automotive surprises I've ever had.
I guess Citroens marketing was never able to come up with a good strategy against the german "sporty" onslought. People are not doing themselves or their families any favours in thei S-Line concrete suspended pseudo-sporty marketing triumphs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyxFd9NwU38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMo-hclo5D0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2q03XZugwg

The current generation C5 uses an almost identical suspension system with the C6 (minus the Amvar). The Executive trim also had optional double glased windows and massage seats. The german ADAC and TUV confirm that the present gen C5 is one of the most reliable cars in its segment (which says a lot when the germans concede some reliabilty to the french). The only minus side to the current C5 estate is that it no longer is a spacious as traditional Citroen barges. Unfortunately it seems as it may be the last Citroen to adorn this marvelous philospophy of systematically developing cars for comfort. The upside is that the masses have no clue what they are passing up on making used C5's a real "insider" valuetip. Get'em while you can.

[dave_s13]

Top post..... I was really dubious about buying this car, no longer though I'm really liking it in fact.

[TooMany2cvs]

flatso said:

Citroen has painstakingly refined this unique suspension cocept over a few decades.

Sixty years this year.

[flatso]

Compareable ride quality comes only from S-Klasse and possibly top-spec E,R and GL-Klasse with airmatic, but thy cost a whole lot more and exept the S-Klasse are arguably not as cushioned. The problem even with modern adaptive suspensions (ex. VAG systems that are built under licence from GM's magnaride) is that they start with a initial hard setup and attempt to make it soft through different methods. The Citroen Hydropneumatic is conceptually soft but can be hardened.
Harcore Citroen fans have developed even softer spheres than the standard ones, tuning the other way around.
Anyone interested in a midsize car should really testdrive a exclusive spec C5 with HP, any other competitor in its class will suddenly seem medevil. Especially people that need to commute longer distances to work every day could massively add to the quality of their commute with these cars. The diesel engines are not bad either (the 3.0 bi-turbo V6 is actaully quite refined and capable).
Not exactly an exiting review but gives a good image of the cockpit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp2MtvI7jHs

[flatso]

dave_s13 said:

Top post..... I was really dubious about buying this car, no longer though I'm really liking it in fact.

You will start looking at peoples heads trembling in other cars as you glide by them; coming home after a hard week at work you will feel sorry for a lot of them.
You will notice the car in front of you as its suspension rebounds with a jolt after going over a surface bump... in the first couple of days you will notice how some muscles will automatically contract preparing you for the same bump but the bump will be smoothed out, like going with a clothing iron over the pavement.
After a few weeks any other car you ride in will automatically be compared by your "popo meter" to the HP. Even cars that you considered very comfortable before (ex. large Volvos) will seem like wooden carriages with leaf springs.

[feef]

TooMany2cvs said:

That's because, in the C5 and C6, the brakes and steering _are_ conventional, separate from the high-pressure hydraulics.

True.. poorly worded on my part there

[dave_s13]

flatso said:

Compareable ride quality comes only from S-Klasse and possibly top-spec E,R and GL-Klasse with airmatic, but thy cost a whole lot more and exept the S-Klasse are arguably not as cushioned. The problem even with modern adaptive suspensions (ex. VAG systems that are built under licence from GM's magnaride) is that they start with a initial hard setup and attempt to make it soft through different methods. The Citroen Hydropneumatic is conceptually soft but can be hardened.
Harcore Citroen fans have developed even softer spheres than the standard ones, tuning the other way around.
Anyone interested in a midsize car should really testdrive a exclusive spec C5 with HP, any other competitor in its class will suddenly seem medevil. Especially people that need to commute longer distances to work every day could massively add to the quality of their commute with these cars. The diesel engines are not bad either (the 3.0 bi-turbo V6 is actaully quite refined and capable).
Not exactly an exiting review but gives a good image of the cockpit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp2MtvI7jHs

I like the cut of your jib sir. Lovely turn of phrase :-)

That post nails it in a nutshell. My other dad (broken home) is thinking about changing his ford focus for something that can Tow a 'van through Europe I'm going to try very hard to persuade him to try a current generation c5.

I wouldn't have before now.

Edited by dave_s13 on Friday 22 August 22:51

[MarsellusWallace]

I'm not normally a Citroen fan but took an 02 plate in a couple of years back,used and abused,for £700.Drove fine and suspension worked perfectly.Lent it to a friend who put 10k trouble free miles on it then sold it to a taxi firm.Its been mechanically reliable,suspension has been reliable too-just the drivers outside door handle mechanism and drivers door electric window switches have gone in that time.A great value car with surprising reliability.

[Pentoman]

These videos pertain to newer versions than OPs car, but here are a couple of professional ones showing the suspension systems. Worth a quick view for any owner or anyone considering it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2q03XZugwg&in...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5_tCTJX05I

I can confirm the current generation C5 is absurdly refined. Potholes no longer exist to me. It's soft when I need it, then the electronics can firm it all up (damping and springing - unlike other manufacturer's systems) if and when I should need to drive fast. In firm mode it doesn't go so far as to make the car engaging or sporting to drive, but it's just enough of a difference that it can handle quicker driving when you need it to.

In Citroen speak I believe the switch from regular to 'sports' mode is called going from "sky hook" to "road hook" mode.

[flatso]

TooMany2cvs said:

Sixty years this year.

In deed, automotive heritage at its best. I have to say that the PSA management at this point in time is completly out of whack. They are basically abandoning their tradition and unique sales point and jumping on the "pseudo-sporty" badwagon, in my opinion when the train has allready left the station. A lot of manufacturers will start returning to more comfortable setups (the current 5er is a good example, being the best Mercedes BMW has ever built)and Citoren will be left behind the curve.
The excuse I hear is the usual chinese market crap....never met a chinese person that did not appreciate comfort.

[TooMany2cvs]

dave_s13 said:

My other dad (broken home) is thinking about changing his ford focus for something that can Tow a 'van through Europe I'm going to try very hard to persuade him to try a current generation c5.

I wouldn't have before now.

It needs to be Exclusive spec to have the hydraulics. Lower ones are on steel springs.

Citroen used to have towcar of the year sewn up every single year, largely because the hydraulics make for such a superb tow car.

[feef]

TooMany2cvs said:

dave_s13 said:

My other dad (broken home) is thinking about changing his ford focus for something that can Tow a 'van through Europe I'm going to try very hard to persuade him to try a current generation c5.

I wouldn't have before now.

It needs to be Exclusive spec to have the hydraulics. Lower ones are on steel springs.

Citroen used to have towcar of the year sewn up every single year, largely because the hydraulics make for such a superb tow car.

Sure about that? My C5 was SX, not Exlcusive and it was hydropneumatic. Certainly with the C4 Grand Picasso, there is/was air suspension on Exclusive only, and the rest are on coil springs, but with the exception of an early gen 1 C5 in Germany, I was under the impression that all C5 were hydropneumatic. Or did that change with the more recent revisions?

[swisstoni]

In the second generation they introduced the option of conventional suspension.

[confused_buyer]

The 2004-2007 facelift C5 can be a bit of a bargain. They're as cheap as chips but are generally a well sorted car which are nice to drive.

Main issues usually centre around diesel DPF and injector issues which many cars from that era suffer with.

A well kept secret.

[TooMany2cvs]

feef said:

Sure about that? My C5 was SX, not Exlcusive and it was hydropneumatic. Certainly with the C4 Grand Picasso, there is/was air suspension on Exclusive only, and the rest are on coil springs, but with the exception of an early gen 1 C5 in Germany, I was under the impression that all C5 were hydropneumatic. Or did that change with the more recent revisions?

Mk1/2 C5 were all hydraulic. Some Hydractive 3, some H3+
Mk3 ("German") C5 is steel on all bar Exclusive - H3+.

[flatso]

confused_buyer said:

The 2004-2007 facelift C5 can be a bit of a bargain. They're as cheap as chips but are generally a well sorted car which are nice to drive.

Main issues usually centre around diesel DPF and injector issues which many cars from that era suffer with.

A well kept secret.

The prices on these are absolutely hillarious. The estate has an absolutely massive boot (proper estate) , and at these prices even the 3.0 V6 petrol makes sense. Definately a good shout for somebody that wants to spend next to nothing on a refined car, probably one of the best deals on the used car market. The FL in 04 or 05 made the car a bit more pallatable designwise.