Citroen C5 - Air suspension - opinons thereof??

[feef]

TooMany2cvs said:

Mk1/2 C5 were all hydraulic. Some Hydractive 3, some H3+
Mk3 ("German") C5 is steel on all bar Exclusive - H3+.

Ahh I had a MK1, all becomes clear.

Just as well you clarified. I'm driving a C6 atm, but was looking at C5 when I was in the market and wasn't aware of the steelie nature of the MK3

[m8rky]

It will also lower by about 10mm at motorway speeds to reduce drag. Oh, what your Audi doesnt do that?

[flatso]

Here is a discussion on a german forum between some comfort fetishists who compare the Citroen HP (C6 and C5) and some Mercedes models (W 212, W211, S-Klasse, basically the Airmatic and standard Merc suspensions).

http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/federungskomfort-e-...

In a nutshell some people with back problems are completltly dissapointed with the recent Merc setups (abandoning their long tradition of building comfortable cars) and are anlysing alternatives. Some have gone so far as to install specially suspended seats from Recaro (like truck or bus seats), other long term Benz owners have thrown the Dacia Duster into the discussion as a comfortable car.
In a nutshell lots have the impression that the Merc systems are not as soft and cushioning as the Citroen Hydropneumatic. The ususal commentaries, regarding the absolute inconsiderate rudeness from the likes of Audi to unleash such primitively hard suspensions on the general public, are also present.

[kev b]

A mate ran a C5 petrol as a taxi, apart from a headlamp bulb (awkward) and a clutch (non DMF very easy/cheap to change) it was completely reliable.

He sold it after a year for more than he paid and I have looked at Citroens in a different light since. I will certainly consider one after my hard as a plank BMW has expired.

I was at a car show yesterday where a Citroen DS was on display near the usual old British cars, Cambridges, Cortinas etc, the DS was a spaceship in comparison and I asked myself why on earth 60yrs later HP suspension is not standard fit on every car.

The pathetically unreliable Range Rover air bag suspension is a poor imitation and all sorts of adjustable pneumatic and electronic have been tried over the years, none have come close.

[dumfriesdave]

I used a Citroen Xantia HDi as a private hire car for a year.
Similar suspension setup. I loved it.
Was surprisingly good handling for a big car.
The ability to raise the suspension up was a brilliant feature, as I had a few customer who lived up badly rutted rural tracks.

[swisstoni]

Keep talking - my C5 must be worth £30 by now.

[vrsmxtb]

I usually bring this up on underpowered cars threads, but we were upgraded to a Citroen C5 hire car once, it was just on steel springs but it was the most comfortable car I've ever driven. The hydro version must be even more impressive. Just a shame about the puny 1.6 diesel engine struggling to pull it all along.

[daytona111r]

flatso said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Sixty years this year.

In deed, automotive heritage at its best. I have to say that the PSA management at this point in time is completly out of whack. They are basically abandoning their tradition and unique sales point and jumping on the "pseudo-sporty" badwagon, in my opinion when the train has allready left the station. A lot of manufacturers will start returning to more comfortable setups (the current 5er is a good example, being the best Mercedes BMW has ever built)and Citoren will be left behind the curve.
The excuse I hear is the usual chinese market crap....never met a chinese person that did not appreciate comfort.

Completely agree. Motor journos and thus people on here may argue about the nth degree of handling agility/steering feel/boy control, but for the average driver, even one that considers themselves a car enthusiast, it simply doesn't matter! The fact that most people think an S-line improves handling shows how little the general motorist really care about it. Ride is much more important. Even conventionally sprung cars like the AX and ZX used to have great ride quality compared to their peers, but that's not the case now.

Citroen is in a unique position, it should have stuck to it's guns and focused on its strengths: ride quality, quirky and (sometimes suave) aesthetic and engineering design and practicality. With the finance deals and German brown nosing, it's too late for Citroen to be a premium brand in Europe, but they could really capitalise on their heritage in developing markets.

[feef]

Anyone remember the Metro advert where it claimed "the ride quality of a French car" or something similar

[BRMMA]

Mine is a mk1 (2003) and the rear drivers side pad is rubbing on the disc, looks as though the caliper is sticking and needs replacing. A garage has told me the brakes work off the hydraulic suspension and i'll need to replace all the hydraulic fluid at £14 per litre if I replace the caliper. I'd this right? I thought the mk1 had a Peugeot brake system that ran off usual dot4?

[JimmyTheHand]

feef said:

Anyone remember the Metro advert where it claimed "the ride quality of a French car" or something similar

I don't remember the advert - but I guess comparison was before the hydrogas system had leaked and the car was running around on the end stops

[dave_s13]

BRMMA said:

Mine is a mk1 (2003) and the rear drivers side pad is rubbing on the disc, looks as though the caliper is sticking and needs replacing. A garage has told me the brakes work off the hydraulic suspension and i'll need to replace all the hydraulic fluid at £14 per litre if I replace the caliper. I'd this right? I thought the mk1 had a Peugeot brake system that ran off usual dot4?

That sounds like bks to me. Surely the pipe from the brake line to the caliper is flexible. You just pinch this off with a clamp, whip the caliper off, new one on the bleed a bit of fluid through?

Anyway, I'm liking the love for these old French boats. I fitted a parrot kit to it yesterday and was impressed with the quality of the electrical connections (all clunk home very securely) and the head unit screws home solid as a rock unlike many others that click home on springs. It's remarkably rattle free for a ten year old 92k mile car.

It could turn round and bite me in the arse though, no mistake. Has all the fabled dmf, dpf, injector etc problems waiting to happen.... Or it could do another 92k miles without issue.

Edited by dave_s13 on Monday 25th August 19:22

[TheInsanity1234]

Can anybody list all (or most, of course) the Citroen cars that came with the hydropenumatic (not sure of spelling) suspension please?

I'm just wondering which ones might possibly be cheap enough for me to insure as a 17 year old...



Probably got my head in the clouds, but I'd honestly love to experience the soft suspension.

[feef]

TheInsanity1234 said:

Can anybody list all (or most, of course) the Citroen cars that came with the hydropenumatic (not sure of spelling) suspension please?

I'm just wondering which ones might possibly be cheap enough for me to insure as a 17 year old...



Probably got my head in the clouds, but I'd honestly love to experience the soft suspension.

The Wikipedia article is a pretty comprehensive list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydropneumatic_suspen...

They tended only to be on the larger cars, so you'll be looking at Xantia or C5, going back to BX if you are happy with something a bit older.

[TooMany2cvs]

BRMMA said:

Mine is a mk1 (2003) and the rear drivers side pad is rubbing on the disc, looks as though the caliper is sticking and needs replacing. A garage has told me the brakes work off the hydraulic suspension and i'll need to replace all the hydraulic fluid at £14 per litre if I replace the caliper. I'd this right? I thought the mk1 had a Peugeot brake system that ran off usual dot4?

The brakes are usual DOT - so replace the fluid every two years unless you like replacing calipers!

But to sort that problem, you don't even need break into the hydraulics. Probably. It's corrosion between the caliper and arm, pushing the caliper out.

[TheInsanity1234]

feef said:

TheInsanity1234 said:

Can anybody list all (or most, of course) the Citroen cars that came with the hydropenumatic (not sure of spelling) suspension please?

I'm just wondering which ones might possibly be cheap enough for me to insure as a 17 year old...



Probably got my head in the clouds, but I'd honestly love to experience the soft suspension.

The Wikipedia article is a pretty comprehensive list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydropneumatic_suspen...

They tended only to be on the larger cars, so you'll be looking at Xantia or C5, going back to BX if you are happy with something a bit older.

Well, I'm being quoted prices of like, 3 grand or more to insure them so sadly not.

Can a kindly PHer buy a C5 or a C6 for me with a large engine, and keep it tucked away somewhere for about 10 years, and when I leave university and have a decent paying job, I'll pay you what you paid for the car?

Or maybe just someone let me test drive their C5/C6 after I'm 17 and am fully licensed

[flatso]

daytona111r said:

Completely agree. Motor journos and thus people on here may argue about the nth degree of handling agility/steering feel/boy control, but for the average driver, even one that considers themselves a car enthusiast, it simply doesn't matter! The fact that most people think an S-line improves handling shows how little the general motorist really care about it. Ride is much more important. Even conventionally sprung cars like the AX and ZX used to have great ride quality compared to their peers, but that's not the case now.

Citroen is in a unique position, it should have stuck to it's guns and focused on its strengths: ride quality, quirky and (sometimes suave) aesthetic and engineering design and practicality. With the finance deals and German brown nosing, it's too late for Citroen to be a premium brand in Europe, but they could really capitalise on their heritage in developing markets.

95% of Porsches spend over 90% of their life driving in a straight line. This whole sporty, curve carving madness is just marketing that has absolutely nothing to do with the majority of the driving profiles of the majority of the people. A lot of this hysteria is caused by the motor journalists; I mean its gotten so bad that some germans are trying to order US spec Mercs because they are softer. Cars that are originally introduced in the US and then make their way to europe are now hardened up by the manufacturers before the press get their hands on them because they are so scared of the journalists calling their cars "un-sporty". Don't get me wrong, I love a well tuned taut suspension on the right machine, but I have no requirement or need for it in an A6 estate that weighs 2 tonnes and is meant to ferry my family around for hundreds of miles at a time. I will never test the limits of adherence with 2 small kids in the back and the wife beside me.
I once had a rental Audi A5 with the sportline pack, driving from Switzerland to Dortmund; the suspension was absolutely unbearable, my wife could not close an eye because as soon as she tried to relax her teeth would literally start to clatter. The autobahn surface was perfectly smooth, but this suspension setup was just idiotic, any backyard mechanic in Kazakhstan could have tuned a better suspension than this retarded S-Line A5.
I put off buying the e60 because I found the ride unacceptable and could not find any "comfort tuning" suggestions on the net at that time.
I have come to the conclusion that just about any car manufacturer today can make a powerful engine, a pleasing design and a half ass decent interior (actually most new car interiors are nice; i haven't seen a really bad one in a long time). I think that setting up a good suspension is a proper art form that takes experience, knowledge and a special touch to get it just right. Unfortunately most consumers (even proper enthusiasts) get too sucked into the whole "sporty" lunacy, forgetting that most of the time they will be driving on straight roads at the ridiculously boring speedlimit.
Citroen is definately going to regret this route they are taking. THe european population ain't getting any younger, and comfort will again become a top priority for the aging enthusiasts.

Perhaps a petition to PSA ?

Cheers

P.S. I've been hearing good things about the new Alpina suspension setups.

[feef]

Completely agree with Flatso and daytona111r. My daily driver is a Citroen C6, but I've a modified MX5 for fun. For all the times I'm driving up or down the country to Scotland to visit family or onto the continent on a holiday (with the exception of road-trips/driving holidays), the C6 is just the ideal tool for the job, and I couldn't imagine doing it in something with even a remotely 'sporty' ride.

[itcaptainslow]

TooMany2cvs said:

The brakes are usual DOT - so replace the fluid every two years unless you like replacing calipers!

But to sort that problem, you don't even need break into the hydraulics. Probably. It's corrosion between the caliper and arm, pushing the caliper out.

This. They're thinking of the old Xantia back LHM system which was literally the lifeblood of the car-the brakes ran off it too.

The C5 switched to "normal" brake fluid, I believe due to the cost/complexity of making a specific ESP/EBD system which would work with LHM/LDS.

The first generation C5 had a very common issue with calcium building up between the caliper and mount, pushing the caliper outwards and causing it to bind. It's a pain to sort out as the two long through bolts are usually thread locked in massively and can sometimes snap upon removal.

[vanordinaire]

Not driven a C5 but I've had CX's, BX's, and a Xantia. Never really used the adjustable height on the road, but it meant you never needed a jack. Just put it up to max, stick an axle stand under and drop it to min.

Also the Hydraulic suspension made them great for towing and braking on corners because the system put more braking force to the wheels with most pressure/weight on them.