MPG and your reasons!!!

[xRIEx]

bp1000 said:

Same sort of scenario here.

I use a prius for work and it gets over 70mpg but this drops on the motorway to around 65-67mpg. But the benefit is, i'm not putting 15k miles on my jaguar xfr, nor am i curbing the alloys, dumping it in random car parks / side streets, getting dents and scrapes from careless assholes. And the best part is the 40p / mile claim i can make means the profit from the fuel (prius costs around 8-9p / mile just in fuel) pays for a lot of the fuel i use doing 18mpg in my XFR over around 6k a year.

It's a fair argument, but for me it's back to front; I'd rather be sat in the nicer car for a longer period of time. The pence per mile to me is for the privilege of sitting in a comfy leather armchair with minimal NVH and enough poke to be a bit of fun now and again. I don't want to be sat for e.g. 20k miles a year in a stbox and 5k a year in something pleasant, I'd rather spend 20k in a nice car and the 5k in the crap car when circumstances dictate I can't avoid it.

[RobM77]

ORD said:

RobM77 said:

BMW are one of the few companies, if not the only company, who make practical everyday cars that are designed from the ground up to be good to drive. Other companies make practical A to B cars with little thought to handling and then make an 'ST' or 'RS' version which is improved. This obviously results in some huge differences in their mundane models. Ford or Peugeot have no reason to make a diesel good to drive, because they're not trying to, that's the preserve if their ST, RS or GTi models. BMW however, do. Having said that, this attitude is obviously changing with the introduction of a front wheel drive one series!

That's about 20 years out of date. Take for example, the following basic models:-

Ford Focus - handles very nicely indeed.

BMW 320d - understeer central station; wallowy ride; nothing approaching a driver's car.

I currently have a C class as a courtesy car and handles barely any worse than a boggo 3 series. The steering is much worse but, other than that, there isn't much in it.

Sorry, but that's complete rubbish. The Focus is an underdamped nose heavy heap of crap; the 3 series is a very tidy handling car indeed - I do 650 miles a week in mine and have never had an issue with understeer, and the same goes for any other model of 3 series I've driven. Unless you're joking? I assume you must be?! If you're not, then you simply have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry!

Edited by RobM77 on Saturday 30th August 23:30

[ORD]

RobM77 said:

Sorry, but that's complete rubbish. The Focus is an underdamped nose heavy heap of crap; the 3 series is a very tidy handling car indeed - I do 650 miles a week in mine and have never had an issue with understeer, and the same goes for any other model of 3 series I've driven. Unless you're joking? I assume you must be?! If you're not, then you simply have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry!

Edited by RobM77 on Saturday 30th August 23:30

Apology accepted. The current 3 series on standard suspension is barely any better than a C class. You can buy the marketing nonsense or actually engage your butt dyno. It can handle neutrally (which the C class cannot) but only if trail braked and/or nudged hard with throttle mid-corner. It's basic set up is heavy understeer (unlike earlier 3ers I have driven).

As for the Focus being underdamped, I think it is a little fidgety and firm but it at least, unlike the 3er, is not wallowy and hard to place on rough surfaces. The 3er is an unsettling car to drive on rough b roads because it floats and pitches like a motorway saloon will. The basic suspension set up is designed for motorway mile munching and cruising in town. It's a rep's set up rather than something 'engineered' for driving enthusiasts.

You seem to accept that the 1 series is average, which it is, but I expect the 3er's suspension and ride/handling balance are pretty similar.

[Mr Daytona]

Hmmm....not sure if whoosh parrot should be making an appearance on that earlier post.

Ford, from the basic Fiesta, through Focus, Mondeo and S Max have some of the finest handling FWD cars in the world and have done since the introduction of the mk1 Focus.

Had a 1 series BMW as a company car a year or tel ago and even though it was the 120d M sport version, I have to say it was a fantastically underwhelming car - absolutely hopeless. Just because BMW used to have the advertising strap line of the "Ultimate Driving Machine" doesn't necessarily make it so and particularly not for the lower spec versions.

[RobM77]

ORD said:

RobM77 said:

Sorry, but that's complete rubbish. The Focus is an underdamped nose heavy heap of crap; the 3 series is a very tidy handling car indeed - I do 650 miles a week in mine and have never had an issue with understeer, and the same goes for any other model of 3 series I've driven. Unless you're joking? I assume you must be?! If you're not, then you simply have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry!

Edited by RobM77 on Saturday 30th August 23:30

Apology accepted. The current 3 series on standard suspension is barely any better than a C class. You can buy the marketing nonsense or actually engage your butt dyno. It can handle neutrally (which the C class cannot) but only if trail braked and/or nudged hard with throttle mid-corner. It's basic set up is heavy understeer (unlike earlier 3ers I have driven).

As for the Focus being underdamped, I think it is a little fidgety and firm but it at least, unlike the 3er, is not wallowy and hard to place on rough surfaces. The 3er is an unsettling car to drive on rough b roads because it floats and pitches like a motorway saloon will. The basic suspension set up is designed for motorway mile munching and cruising in town. It's a rep's set up rather than something 'engineered' for driving enthusiasts.

You seem to accept that the 1 series is average, which it is, but I expect the 3er's suspension and ride/handling balance are pretty similar.

I love the 1 series; where do I say it's average?! I can assure you, I don't buy marketing stuff in the slightest. I've raced for ten years, coached for 5 and driven virtually every sub £50k car I can think of on the road, and many on track. You really are talking utter rubbish, sorry, there's no easy or polite way to say that. All cars will require a blending of brakes into steering to neutralise them, even aggressively set up single seaters (I presume that's what you're referring to with trail braking?). And 'nudging a car with the throttle mid corner' will cause instant understeer unless it's wet and that car's been balanced beforehand. I'd suggest that it's you that needs to get out there and drive these cars to form a decent opinion of their handling. If the 3 series is so average as you suggest, why would I be on my fourth? And why would half of my racing friends drive them as well?! Shouldn't we all be in Focuses and Mondeos?

Edited by RobM77 on Sunday 31st August 00:14