'Advances' in technology
Discussion
Main reason for the introduction of electronic throttle controls, electric steering, electric parking brakes, adaptive cruise etc is that they are all the precursor technologies for full automation. All the building blocks have been going in for years. It all greatly facilitates the full control of the car by a computer. Connecting a car to a computer via cables and hydraulics would be much more complicated and expensive for manufacturers.
HIDs all the way; it's all very well that "I can see really great"; well bully for you! A real "I'm all right Jack" attitude. I don't recall having any problem at all hooning around unlit country roads pretending I was Tony Pond back in the day with a normal set of 55/50s. I didn't need laser death beams that obliterated other peoples vision if I was a bit slow getting the dipped beam on/it was raining/it was bumpy.
Real tech for the sake of it.
Compare and contrast with something so simple and useful as door mirrors with curved glass at the outer edges. Such a simple thing. Cost? Practically nothing. Benefit - I suspect many lives have been saved.
Real tech for the sake of it.
Compare and contrast with something so simple and useful as door mirrors with curved glass at the outer edges. Such a simple thing. Cost? Practically nothing. Benefit - I suspect many lives have been saved.
Max_Torque said:
Thing is, it's never "just one advantage". Lets take EPAS as an example:
ADVANTAGES:
1) Co2 improvement over both NEDC and in the real world: (that alone means it's going to be used)
2) Cheaper system than conventional PAS: (again, that's enough on it's own)
3) Simpler integration and design: (no engine mounted pump, reservoirs, pipe work etc)
4) Enabler for extra functionality: (Park assist, lane guidance, stability augmentation, drive "modes" etc)
5) Reduces production costs: (quicker, easier build, without having to fill with fluid or connect pipework etc)
6) Increased reliability & less servicing: (no fluid, or pipes to leak)
7) Integrated diagnostics: The system is self diagnosing.
DISADVANTAGES:
1) Can increase the inertia of steering systems, reducing response and "feel"
Pretty clear cut that one!
Yeah, EPAS is a no brainer, I would say PAS itself is the issue, my last non PAS car was a MK2 Golf GTI and the steering was rather good but at parking speeds it required significant effort.ADVANTAGES:
1) Co2 improvement over both NEDC and in the real world: (that alone means it's going to be used)
2) Cheaper system than conventional PAS: (again, that's enough on it's own)
3) Simpler integration and design: (no engine mounted pump, reservoirs, pipe work etc)
4) Enabler for extra functionality: (Park assist, lane guidance, stability augmentation, drive "modes" etc)
5) Reduces production costs: (quicker, easier build, without having to fill with fluid or connect pipework etc)
6) Increased reliability & less servicing: (no fluid, or pipes to leak)
7) Integrated diagnostics: The system is self diagnosing.
DISADVANTAGES:
1) Can increase the inertia of steering systems, reducing response and "feel"
Pretty clear cut that one!
I reckon PAS, DBW throttles, heavily served brakes and Dual Mass flywheels are what took a lot of feel away from cars, not so much the stability systems and ABS that people say takes so much away, most of the time you don't even know those systems are there.
Also, sometimes you don't want feel, some people never want it, they want feather light everything and silence, must be tough being a manufacturer !
I particularly despise all the annoying warning 'bongs' from the computer. I wish I could get rid of every single one of them.
Bong - seatbelt not on (when just swapping cars on the driveway)
Bong - the door is open with the key in the ignition
Bong - the car is in neutral and the engine's off
Bong - low washer fluid
Bong - temperature under 3 degrees
Bong - temperature under 0 degrees
Bong - service is due
Bong - cruise control has been deactivated due to slippery conditions
I don't care about any of those things. Computers in cars are like children from yesteryear; they should be seen but not heard.
Bong - seatbelt not on (when just swapping cars on the driveway)
Bong - the door is open with the key in the ignition
Bong - the car is in neutral and the engine's off
Bong - low washer fluid
Bong - temperature under 3 degrees
Bong - temperature under 0 degrees
Bong - service is due
Bong - cruise control has been deactivated due to slippery conditions
I don't care about any of those things. Computers in cars are like children from yesteryear; they should be seen but not heard.
[quote=Dog Star]HIDs all the way; it's all very well that "I can see really great"; well bully for you! A real "I'm all right Jack" attitude. I don't recall having any problem at all hooning around unlit country roads pretending I was Tony Pond back in the day with a normal set of 55/50s. I didn't need laser death beams that obliterated other peoples vision if I was a bit slow getting the dipped beam on/it was raining/it was bumpy.
quote]
...wow
quote]
...wow
RizzoTheRat said:
Linked brakes on motorbikes, it's got two brake controls, I'll decide when to use them thanks, I don't mind the rear coming on when I brake the front, but if I brake the rear it's for a reason and I don't want the front coming on.
Hardly recent though, Guzzi's have had them since at least 1975Fake engine noise piped through the sound system. I could not bring myself to buy a car that had this "feature".
Agree with the earlier point about over-complication of diesels. Their original strengths of reliability, long life and ease of maintenance have been lost.
Huge wheels.
The general trend to more power & more weight. They should be going the other way.
Agree with the earlier point about over-complication of diesels. Their original strengths of reliability, long life and ease of maintenance have been lost.
Huge wheels.
The general trend to more power & more weight. They should be going the other way.
V8forweekends said:
RizzoTheRat said:
Linked brakes on motorbikes, it's got two brake controls, I'll decide when to use them thanks, I don't mind the rear coming on when I brake the front, but if I brake the rear it's for a reason and I don't want the front coming on.
Hardly recent though, Guzzi's have had them since at least 1975
El Guapo said:
Fake engine noise piped through the sound system. I could not bring myself to buy a car that had this "feature".
.
Can't believe i forgot this one, what a load of crap.
also not an advance in technology but common thing these days is for multiple exhausts or big blingy exhaust trims (which look especially s
t when you can see the standard pea shooter exhaust inside the big chrome trim) it looks rubbish and like you're trying too hardLowtimer said:
Presumably you can get rid of them with a bit of DIY. I don't believe they use the ICE speakers so somewhere under the dash is a bong-speaker, which has a wire running to it.
In my E36 M3 it was simply a speaker, which could be unplugged. In the E91 though, it's in the computer which is the ICE and so the bongs come loud and clear through all speakers. 
JDMDrifter said:
The electric throttle, a cable throttle works, is simpler and feels better.
Except that is pretty much all untrue, especially when you try to make a cable system deliver what the electronic systems do in terms of functionality and reliability.The reason most "by wire" throttles in cars feel too damped in cars is nothing to do with the actual operating system, and everything to do with the manufacturers wanting to make those cars easy and smooth to drive, which suits 99.99% of those cars target audience.....
Max_Torque said:
Except that is pretty much all untrue, especially when you try to make a cable system deliver what the electronic systems do in terms of functionality and reliability.
The reason most "by wire" throttles in cars feel too damped in cars is nothing to do with the actual operating system, and everything to do with the manufacturers wanting to make those cars easy and smooth to drive, which suits 99.99% of those cars target audience.....
You'll be telling us life wasn't perfect in the 50s next.The reason most "by wire" throttles in cars feel too damped in cars is nothing to do with the actual operating system, and everything to do with the manufacturers wanting to make those cars easy and smooth to drive, which suits 99.99% of those cars target audience.....
I've just changed from a 2006 Saab 9-3 to a 2010 car with way less tech.. So no more:-
Bong! washer fluid low/ it's chilly
Hid headlights
Auto wipers
Parking sensors
Touch screen satnav/ stereo
Electric seats
Dual climate control
And hello to
Beep - lights are on and you're leaving me!
Fixed interval intermittent wipers
Look behind when parking
Ducted engine noise via a pipe from the air intake to the cabin.
Beep - roof not shut
Yep - it's an MX-5. It's very much back to basics.
Bong! washer fluid low/ it's chilly
Hid headlights
Auto wipers
Parking sensors
Touch screen satnav/ stereo
Electric seats
Dual climate control
And hello to
Beep - lights are on and you're leaving me!
Fixed interval intermittent wipers
Look behind when parking
Ducted engine noise via a pipe from the air intake to the cabin.
Beep - roof not shut
Yep - it's an MX-5. It's very much back to basics.
I love Xenon headlights, auto-full beams, intelligent lights which turn as you drive, etc, etc - I think it is all fantastic and makes it SO much more comfortable to drive at night. The new models split the light direction to avoid dazzling oncoming traffic whilst maximising illumination for the driver.
Things I do not like however....
AUTO START STOP.
1) Auto start stop ... which CANNOT be long-term disabled in my M6. Ridiculous, do not drive it for economy, I DO drive it for performance - and adding a half second or a second to pulling away speed is terrible. Almost crashed when trying to pull out during busy traffic and the start stop turned my quick dart out from a cheeky move to an idiotic one.
2) Engagement of DCT boxes.... I found torque converter autos much nicer - slot the shifter to the position you want and go. No need to mess around trying to satisfy all the electronic requirements before your gear is engaged.
3) Touch Screen stereos.... makes no sense to me whilst driving a car in which you are moving around in with the road, mis-hit touches seem SO inevitable. The I-Drive/etc selector wheel works GREAT, by far the best way to control in car stuff whilst driving.
Things I do not like however....
AUTO START STOP.
1) Auto start stop ... which CANNOT be long-term disabled in my M6. Ridiculous, do not drive it for economy, I DO drive it for performance - and adding a half second or a second to pulling away speed is terrible. Almost crashed when trying to pull out during busy traffic and the start stop turned my quick dart out from a cheeky move to an idiotic one.
2) Engagement of DCT boxes.... I found torque converter autos much nicer - slot the shifter to the position you want and go. No need to mess around trying to satisfy all the electronic requirements before your gear is engaged.
3) Touch Screen stereos.... makes no sense to me whilst driving a car in which you are moving around in with the road, mis-hit touches seem SO inevitable. The I-Drive/etc selector wheel works GREAT, by far the best way to control in car stuff whilst driving.
Edited by sealtt on Thursday 28th August 23:58
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