Should we remove the age barrier for young drivers in case..
Discussion
Emeye said:
I disagree - me and all my mates were not great drivers as kids, we did silly things in cars and we took silly risks - as we got older we've all become wiser and sensible and more thoughtful.
Insurance would be cheaper for younger drivers if the stats didn't demonstrate they are more likely to bounce off stuff.
Not trying to pick a fight but then you are the sort of person that shouldn't have had a license at that age.Insurance would be cheaper for younger drivers if the stats didn't demonstrate they are more likely to bounce off stuff.
You shouldn't need to become "older" or "wiser", if you can't handle a car or treat it for what it is " a heavy piece of metal and plastic that can kill" then you didn't deserve to drive one.
I passed at 17/18 (can't remember if it was late 17 or early 18)i'm now 22 and have never crashed,nor got points and have been pulled once for speeding to be told that i was a naughty boy al.
I feel that a lot of the young driving generation crash because they just don't think about what they are doing.
Blindly driving into hazards, not properly assessing distance between vehicles, not checking mirrors when manouvering etc
My suggestion for a solution is to raise the age to 18 (the same age as voting and drinking, for consistency) and have a minimum amount of hours that must be spent behind the wheel supervised.
Afromonk said:
Emeye said:
I disagree - me and all my mates were not great drivers as kids, we did silly things in cars and we took silly risks - as we got older we've all become wiser and sensible and more thoughtful.
Insurance would be cheaper for younger drivers if the stats didn't demonstrate they are more likely to bounce off stuff.
Not trying to pick a fight but then you are the sort of person that shouldn't have had a license at that age.Insurance would be cheaper for younger drivers if the stats didn't demonstrate they are more likely to bounce off stuff.
You shouldn't need to become "older" or "wiser", if you can't handle a car or treat it for what it is " a heavy piece of metal and plastic that can kill" then you didn't deserve to drive one.
I passed at 17/18 (can't remember if it was late 17 or early 18)i'm now 22 and have never crashed,nor got points and have been pulled once for speeding to be told that i was a naughty boy al.
I feel that a lot of the young driving generation crash because they just don't think about what they are doing.
Blindly driving into hazards, not properly assessing distance between vehicles, not checking mirrors when manouvering etc
My suggestion for a solution is to raise the age to 18 (the same age as voting and drinking, for consistency) and have a minimum amount of hours that must be spent behind the wheel supervised.
Afromonk said:
Emeye said:
I disagree - me and all my mates were not great drivers as kids, we did silly things in cars and we took silly risks - as we got older we've all become wiser and sensible and more thoughtful.
Insurance would be cheaper for younger drivers if the stats didn't demonstrate they are more likely to bounce off stuff.
Not trying to pick a fight but then you are the sort of person that shouldn't have had a license at that age.Insurance would be cheaper for younger drivers if the stats didn't demonstrate they are more likely to bounce off stuff.
You shouldn't need to become "older" or "wiser", if you can't handle a car or treat it for what it is " a heavy piece of metal and plastic that can kill" then you didn't deserve to drive one.
I passed at 17/18 (can't remember if it was late 17 or early 18)i'm now 22 and have never crashed,nor got points and have been pulled once for speeding to be told that i was a naughty boy al.
I feel that a lot of the young driving generation crash because they just don't think about what they are doing.
Blindly driving into hazards, not properly assessing distance between vehicles, not checking mirrors when manouvering etc
My suggestion for a solution is to raise the age to 18 (the same age as voting and drinking, for consistency) and have a minimum amount of hours that must be spent behind the wheel supervised.
Afromonk said:
I passed at 17/18 (can't remember if it was late 17 or early 18)i'm now 22 and have never crashed,nor got points and have been pulled once for speeding to be told that i was a naughty boy al.
If you can't remember when you passed your test and it was only 4/5 years ago I wonder if senelity is setting in early, are you ok to drive?As for not crashing or speeding it will be interesting to see if you are in the same position after getting the BMW X5 4.4L you are thinking about.
Gaspode said:
Nigel Worc's said:
Small motorcycles only, between the ages of 16 & 21.
No car licence possible until 21.
I think it'd work, the idiots would just die.
Seems fair enough to me. I only had motorcycles from the age of 17 to 23, I couldn't afford to run a car. The thing about a bike is that if you do something stupid, you'll kill yourself. Do something stupid in a car and you can kill lots of other people too.No car licence possible until 21.
I think it'd work, the idiots would just die.
Realistically with insurance rates for young drivers the way they are, the main test for 17 yeard olds at the moment is "do you have rich parents?". Which is a bit of a crappy test. Meanwhile I knew friends with motorbike insurance for £250.
Though, being honest, we probably would see more dead young adults that way - even if total crashes dropped it probably wouldn't make up for the higher likelihood of a crash being fatal.
I would be in favour of a similar system to Canada.
Below is what the rules are in BC, most provinces are similar. This ensures that you "graduate" up the levels and gain experience as you go before you can be let loose on the roads, whereas in the UK you could do one intensive weeks course and drive freely:
Class 8L (Motorcycle Learner's Permit): This permit can be first obtained at age 16, just as the Class 7L. There are many restrictions until the rider passes a "Motorcycle skills Test," which is conducted on a parking lot and involves basic manoeuvring skills. After this test, the rider can ride alone, with much fewer restrictions.
Class 7L (Learner's Permit): This permit can first be obtained at age 16, and requires a person under the age of 19. To obtain this permit, one must take a medical and knowledge test, which requires 80% to pass. A person holding this licence must be accompanied by a fully licensed driver over 25. The driver must maintain a blood-alcohol count of 0 (i.e. none in their blood), display a large 'L' decal on the back of their vehicle, have no more than two passengers (including the supervisor), and must not drive between 12AM-5AM. The 7L licence is good for two years. After 12 months, the driver may take a 45 minute driving test to advance to the next level.
Class 7 (Novice Permit): Also called the "N" stage minimum age 17, the permit is obtained after completion of the Class 7L driving test. A Class 7 licence is good for five years, and the stage takes a minimum of two years to complete (Unless the person graduates from an accredited driving course, then it's 1.5 years). Drivers must display a large 'N' decal on the back of their vehicle. Restrictions include 0 blood alcohol and a limit of one passenger (the limit being waived for anyone in the immediate family, and entirely if a supervisor over the age of 25 with a valid class 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 license is in the vehicle[6]) Furthermore, any infraction of the traffic law by the possessor of a Class 7 Licence can result in a prohibition, after which the possessor must begin the Class 7N program from the start. After two years, the licence-holder may take the 45 minute Class 5 road test. Passage grants a full licence (a Class 5 passenger vehicle licence).
Class 6 (Motorcycle Licence): This licence allows the holder to operate a motorcycle with no restrictions.
Class 5 (Full Vehicle Licence): This is a full passenger-vehicle licence. It has no additional restrictions, unlike the Class 7 licences.
Class 4 (Commercial licence): Permits the holder to operate taxis, limousines, ambulances, special buses used to transport people with disabilities and other special vehicles - also permits the holder to operate vehicles in Class 5. Minimum age: 19.
Class 3 (Commercial licence, heavy trucks): Permits the holder to operate trucks with more than two axles, including dump trucks and large tow trucks - also permits the holder to operate vehicles in Class 5. Minimum age: 18.
Class 2 (Commercial licence, buses): Permits the holder to operate buses, including school buses, special activity buses and special vehicles - also permits the holder to operate vehicles in Classes 4 and 5. Minimum age: 19.
Class 1 (Commercial licence, semi-trailer): Permits the holder to operate semi-trailer trucks - also, permits the holder to operate all motor vehicles or combinations of vehicles except motorcycles. Minimum age: 19.
Below is what the rules are in BC, most provinces are similar. This ensures that you "graduate" up the levels and gain experience as you go before you can be let loose on the roads, whereas in the UK you could do one intensive weeks course and drive freely:
Class 8L (Motorcycle Learner's Permit): This permit can be first obtained at age 16, just as the Class 7L. There are many restrictions until the rider passes a "Motorcycle skills Test," which is conducted on a parking lot and involves basic manoeuvring skills. After this test, the rider can ride alone, with much fewer restrictions.
Class 7L (Learner's Permit): This permit can first be obtained at age 16, and requires a person under the age of 19. To obtain this permit, one must take a medical and knowledge test, which requires 80% to pass. A person holding this licence must be accompanied by a fully licensed driver over 25. The driver must maintain a blood-alcohol count of 0 (i.e. none in their blood), display a large 'L' decal on the back of their vehicle, have no more than two passengers (including the supervisor), and must not drive between 12AM-5AM. The 7L licence is good for two years. After 12 months, the driver may take a 45 minute driving test to advance to the next level.
Class 7 (Novice Permit): Also called the "N" stage minimum age 17, the permit is obtained after completion of the Class 7L driving test. A Class 7 licence is good for five years, and the stage takes a minimum of two years to complete (Unless the person graduates from an accredited driving course, then it's 1.5 years). Drivers must display a large 'N' decal on the back of their vehicle. Restrictions include 0 blood alcohol and a limit of one passenger (the limit being waived for anyone in the immediate family, and entirely if a supervisor over the age of 25 with a valid class 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 license is in the vehicle[6]) Furthermore, any infraction of the traffic law by the possessor of a Class 7 Licence can result in a prohibition, after which the possessor must begin the Class 7N program from the start. After two years, the licence-holder may take the 45 minute Class 5 road test. Passage grants a full licence (a Class 5 passenger vehicle licence).
Class 6 (Motorcycle Licence): This licence allows the holder to operate a motorcycle with no restrictions.
Class 5 (Full Vehicle Licence): This is a full passenger-vehicle licence. It has no additional restrictions, unlike the Class 7 licences.
Class 4 (Commercial licence): Permits the holder to operate taxis, limousines, ambulances, special buses used to transport people with disabilities and other special vehicles - also permits the holder to operate vehicles in Class 5. Minimum age: 19.
Class 3 (Commercial licence, heavy trucks): Permits the holder to operate trucks with more than two axles, including dump trucks and large tow trucks - also permits the holder to operate vehicles in Class 5. Minimum age: 18.
Class 2 (Commercial licence, buses): Permits the holder to operate buses, including school buses, special activity buses and special vehicles - also permits the holder to operate vehicles in Classes 4 and 5. Minimum age: 19.
Class 1 (Commercial licence, semi-trailer): Permits the holder to operate semi-trailer trucks - also, permits the holder to operate all motor vehicles or combinations of vehicles except motorcycles. Minimum age: 19.
sherbertdip said:
If you can't remember when you passed your test and it was only 4/5 years ago I wonder if senelity is setting in early, are you ok to drive?
As for not crashing or speeding it will be interesting to see if you are in the same position after getting the BMW X5 4.4L you are thinking about.
Or perhaps their birthday fell near their test date...As for not crashing or speeding it will be interesting to see if you are in the same position after getting the BMW X5 4.4L you are thinking about.
AreOut said:
I'm not psychologist but they could find some way, if nothing they could try an IQ test or something, IQ isn't everything, not even the most important thing but it could be measured and mature persons usually have higher IQ (higher than, say, 80).
With respect, "they could find some way" is a cop-out. I can see where you were going with your original idea, and it isn't ridiculous, but there is a good reason why we use age to determine things like whether you can drive, or vote, or join the army etc.Nigel Worc's said:
Afromonk said:
Emeye said:
I disagree - me and all my mates were not great drivers as kids, we did silly things in cars and we took silly risks - as we got older we've all become wiser and sensible and more thoughtful.
Insurance would be cheaper for younger drivers if the stats didn't demonstrate they are more likely to bounce off stuff.
Not trying to pick a fight but then you are the sort of person that shouldn't have had a license at that age.Insurance would be cheaper for younger drivers if the stats didn't demonstrate they are more likely to bounce off stuff.
You shouldn't need to become "older" or "wiser", if you can't handle a car or treat it for what it is " a heavy piece of metal and plastic that can kill" then you didn't deserve to drive one.
I passed at 17/18 (can't remember if it was late 17 or early 18)i'm now 22 and have never crashed,nor got points and have been pulled once for speeding to be told that i was a naughty boy al.
I feel that a lot of the young driving generation crash because they just don't think about what they are doing.
Blindly driving into hazards, not properly assessing distance between vehicles, not checking mirrors when manouvering etc
My suggestion for a solution is to raise the age to 18 (the same age as voting and drinking, for consistency) and have a minimum amount of hours that must be spent behind the wheel supervised.
tomjol said:
sherbertdip said:
If you can't remember when you passed your test and it was only 4/5 years ago I wonder if senelity is setting in early, are you ok to drive?
As for not crashing or speeding it will be interesting to see if you are in the same position after getting the BMW X5 4.4L you are thinking about.
Or perhaps their birthday fell near their test date...As for not crashing or speeding it will be interesting to see if you are in the same position after getting the BMW X5 4.4L you are thinking about.
etc.
And I don't see what the type of car I drive or will drive has to do with anything, I'm sure plenty of people crash and speed in 1.0L micras, infact more people probably crash and speed in slower more mundane cars anyway.
paranoid airbag said:
Gaspode said:
Nigel Worc's said:
Small motorcycles only, between the ages of 16 & 21.
No car licence possible until 21.
I think it'd work, the idiots would just die.
Seems fair enough to me. I only had motorcycles from the age of 17 to 23, I couldn't afford to run a car. The thing about a bike is that if you do something stupid, you'll kill yourself. Do something stupid in a car and you can kill lots of other people too.No car licence possible until 21.
I think it'd work, the idiots would just die.
Realistically with insurance rates for young drivers the way they are, the main test for 17 yeard olds at the moment is "do you have rich parents?". Which is a bit of a crappy test. Meanwhile I knew friends with motorbike insurance for £250.
Though, being honest, we probably would see more dead young adults that way - even if total crashes dropped it probably wouldn't make up for the higher likelihood of a crash being fatal.
Before they even got into a car they would have clocked up 3 years of speeding, overtaking badly and a deep physiological need to be at the front of the queue at every single road junction.
Hol said:
Terrible idea,
Before they even got into a car they would have clocked up 3 years of speeding, overtaking badly and a deep physiological need to be at the front of the queue at every single road junction.
So they've gotten good practise for driving then Before they even got into a car they would have clocked up 3 years of speeding, overtaking badly and a deep physiological need to be at the front of the queue at every single road junction.
(except I'll grant you, they need to swap "overtaking" for "blindly opposing any overtake" first)
I agree with the original premise. I also agree with the "some people are too immature to have a driving licence".
Age is an arbitrary qualification. The measure should be ability. So if you are 14 and can demonstrate that you understand and have the cognitive, physical and intellectual skills to drive then you get a licence. For a year, then you have to take another test, and for at least the first five years you take a test every year. Then test every five years, for everyone.
Perhaps the scariest thing I heard was someone talking at the sinks in a toilet while I was in a cubical:
A friend ask him how the weekend had gone and he said it was a bit scary, he's just moved from Bath to London. To do so he'd rented a van. He hadn't driven since he passed his test five years before it was the first time he'd driven anything other than the instructors car and his first time on a motorway.
And this was perfectly legal.
Simon
Age is an arbitrary qualification. The measure should be ability. So if you are 14 and can demonstrate that you understand and have the cognitive, physical and intellectual skills to drive then you get a licence. For a year, then you have to take another test, and for at least the first five years you take a test every year. Then test every five years, for everyone.
Perhaps the scariest thing I heard was someone talking at the sinks in a toilet while I was in a cubical:
A friend ask him how the weekend had gone and he said it was a bit scary, he's just moved from Bath to London. To do so he'd rented a van. He hadn't driven since he passed his test five years before it was the first time he'd driven anything other than the instructors car and his first time on a motorway.
And this was perfectly legal.
Simon
simonrockman said:
Perhaps the scariest thing I heard was someone talking at the sinks in a toilet while I was in a cubical:
A friend ask him how the weekend had gone and he said it was a bit scary, he's just moved from Bath to London. To do so he'd rented a van. He hadn't driven since he passed his test five years before it was the first time he'd driven anything other than the instructors car and his first time on a motorway.
And this was perfectly legal.
Simon
One of the guys I live with at Uni is 24 in October. He has a full UK driving licence, but hasn't driven since he passed his test when he was 17. A friend ask him how the weekend had gone and he said it was a bit scary, he's just moved from Bath to London. To do so he'd rented a van. He hadn't driven since he passed his test five years before it was the first time he'd driven anything other than the instructors car and his first time on a motorway.
And this was perfectly legal.
Simon
It's crazy to think that the only barrier between him and being able to drive on the M1 at rush hour is a lack of funds. At some point when he's finished Uni, he'll presumably buy a car and drive it having last been behind the wheel during his driving test, which by that time will be over 8 years ago (he has another two years of Uni to do yet).
I fully agree with you; it's scary/crazy such things are legal!
Dammit said:
Monkeylegend said:
Oh look, another made up statistic. Care to elaborate on the basis for this figure you have somehow arrived at?
Not really, why don't you prove me wrong, chuckles?
And according to the internet, 25% of women are receiving medication for mental illness. That means the other 75% are walking around untreated.
AreOut said:
and why is the 17yo kid allowed to drive an F1 car next year then?
Not just ANY 17 year old though,one who has proven his ability to drive on track, he could in fact be a s
t road driver, your proposal would have any (actually you didn't give a limit so shall we say 14 year old) driving anything he could get insured on, which in reality would probably preclude his driving anything as insurance companies are not stupid.paranoid airbag said:
Hol said:
Terrible idea,
Before they even got into a car they would have clocked up 3 years of speeding, overtaking badly and a deep physiological need to be at the front of the queue at every single road junction.
So they've gotten good practise for driving then Before they even got into a car they would have clocked up 3 years of speeding, overtaking badly and a deep physiological need to be at the front of the queue at every single road junction.
(except I'll grant you, they need to swap "overtaking" for "blindly opposing any overtake" first)
All the new drivers would constantly be in the opposite lane, or in our lane but coming towards us.
Corpulent Tosser said:
AreOut said:
and why is the 17yo kid allowed to drive an F1 car next year then?
Not just ANY 17 year old though,one who has proven his ability to drive on track, he could in fact be a st road driver, your proposal would have any (actually you didn't give a limit so shall we say 14 year old) driving anything he could get insured on, which in reality would probably preclude his driving anything as insurance companies are not stupid.You can drive some racing series at 14 already.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginetta_Junior_Cham...
Race driving does not require a knowledge or application of the Highway Code, or lane discipline, use of indicators etc.
It's about safe speed, grip and the racing rules.
Edited by Hol on Saturday 30th August 09:30
Corpulent Tosser said:
Not just ANY 17 year old though,one who has proven his ability to drive on track, he could in fact be a st road driver, your proposal would have any (actually you didn't give a limit so shall we say 14 year old) driving anything he could get insured on, which in reality would probably preclude his driving anything as insurance companies are not stupid.
Besides, anyone who thinks that the ability to drive a racing car fast around a track is a good indicator that they would be a good road driver should be prevented from ever acquiring a licence...t road driver, your proposal would have any (actually you didn't give a limit so shall we say 14 year old) driving anything he could get insured on, which in reality would probably preclude his driving anything as insurance companies are not stupid.I believe you can drive a car at 14 in some states of the USA, mostly sparsely populated farming places I think.
Probably not a good idea in this country though.
Intelligence and maturity are no guides to how good a driver you will be though, a guy I know is super brainy, sociable and with a mature personality, he achieved top marks on the theory test, took 3 tries to pass the driving test and was one of the scariest drivers I have encountered.
I don't think 15 or 16 yr old girls should be let loose on the roads as going by the example of older girls they will be driving with an Iphone clamped to their ear or texting on their laps whilst driving down the white line at speed.
Probably not a good idea in this country though.
Intelligence and maturity are no guides to how good a driver you will be though, a guy I know is super brainy, sociable and with a mature personality, he achieved top marks on the theory test, took 3 tries to pass the driving test and was one of the scariest drivers I have encountered.
I don't think 15 or 16 yr old girls should be let loose on the roads as going by the example of older girls they will be driving with an Iphone clamped to their ear or texting on their laps whilst driving down the white line at speed.
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