Old bugger vs complicated dashboard controls
Discussion
Buy a Vauxhall, mine was made in 2010 and still have knobs in the front (no laughing at the back) and keep fit windy windows in the back. 
very much with you on this one, sadly they've followed suit like everyone else now and dash of most modern cars looks like the command console at NASA.
Easy to use ergonomic controls please, Does anyone have experience of a Peugeot 2008 with the decluttered dash? is it that good or have they put all the controls in a touch screen or menu type thing?
I'm fine being be able to fine tune stuff to my hearts content when stationary through an idrive type thing, but radio and fan / heating its nice be able to do from muscle memory or with some tactile feedback. Most people these days do not need another excuse / distraction from paying attention to driving the car. I want to drive my car on a road not through endless menus.
very much with you on this one, sadly they've followed suit like everyone else now and dash of most modern cars looks like the command console at NASA.
Easy to use ergonomic controls please, Does anyone have experience of a Peugeot 2008 with the decluttered dash? is it that good or have they put all the controls in a touch screen or menu type thing?
I'm fine being be able to fine tune stuff to my hearts content when stationary through an idrive type thing, but radio and fan / heating its nice be able to do from muscle memory or with some tactile feedback. Most people these days do not need another excuse / distraction from paying attention to driving the car. I want to drive my car on a road not through endless menus.
Tim Farquhar said:
Is it just me, or are cars generally becoming way too complicated to control easily whilst driving. I have an Audi S5, with an "infotainment system", where you have to go into a menu to find the screen to alter a radio station, or alter the heater/AC etc, etc. I was faffing about with mine today, when I suddenly realised I was heading for the greenery to my left. Not a good situation. As a 51 year old, I remember having slide controls, with, for example blue at one end, and red at the other, meaning cold to hot, similarly there was a dial with a picture of a windscreen, face, and feet, and you just simply chose one in the blink of an eye, and it worked. The new Audi is a beautiful car to drive, but I do think the designers need to go more back to basics with heater, and radio controls, before my head explodes, as I try to take in all the info from the road, and the dash screen. Regards. Tim the Luddite.
I'm with you on this. The tekkies who design these things don't understand ergonomics.Same goes for stupid round knobs for automatic gear selectors, push (or pull) button handbrakes, and the worst "improvement" of them all - the centralising indicator stalk on the Astra (and other Vauxhalls).
They are all technical solutions where there wasn't a problem in the first place.
poing said:
Same here, I'm an IT nerd but some cars are just too much. I was buying a new car at the weekend so test driving various cars. The one I bought has more buttons than my laptop and I suspect I'll use less than 10% of them in practice. The worst one I drove had a 7 inch touch screen, touch screens just don't work in cars because you need to look at it to see if you have pressed it, something that proved impossible on a bumpy road!
I have a real issue with the touch screen displays, they just do NOT work in a car. Wish they'd leave it at the circular control dial you can use whilst remaining in a normal driving position.I agree, I had the "pleasure" of driving a Peugeot hire car for work the other day and the whole lot was controlled by a touchscreen.
I am the younger generation, and even I had to pull over to start playing with it so that I could set the temperature and radio station without ploughing into some greenery.
I am the younger generation, and even I had to pull over to start playing with it so that I could set the temperature and radio station without ploughing into some greenery.
I agree entirely - all this cr
p is a solution to a problem that did not exist.
After all surely all the buyers now have an app on their smartphone to allow them to alter the heating at home/operate the sky+box/text their mates/have a crash!!
If you want to drive a car then drive it, if not get the train or be a bus-wker please.
p is a solution to a problem that did not exist.After all surely all the buyers now have an app on their smartphone to allow them to alter the heating at home/operate the sky+box/text their mates/have a crash!!
If you want to drive a car then drive it, if not get the train or be a bus-w
ker please.When they were first became common place I could never understand why wing mirrors needed to be controlled by a little joy stick?????
You set your mirrors as to how you need to see out of them - and that's it!
Obviously if you're driving along and suddenly and unexpectedly get a giraffes neck grafted between your head and shoulders then yes the joy stick facility may become a useful gadget.
But for normal mortals as long as you drive that vehicle you shouldn't feel the need to momentarily adjust the mirrors!
And so I put it to the collective that the wing mirror joy stick control was the forefront of 'car designers unnecessary control syndrome'
You set your mirrors as to how you need to see out of them - and that's it!
Obviously if you're driving along and suddenly and unexpectedly get a giraffes neck grafted between your head and shoulders then yes the joy stick facility may become a useful gadget.
But for normal mortals as long as you drive that vehicle you shouldn't feel the need to momentarily adjust the mirrors!
And so I put it to the collective that the wing mirror joy stick control was the forefront of 'car designers unnecessary control syndrome'
Squiggs said:
And so I put it to the collective that the wing mirror joy stick control was the forefront of 'car designers unnecessary control syndrome'
I beg to differ at this point. I can never get the mirrors right sitting in a parking space - they get sorted approximately, then fine tuned. Also I could never reach the passenger mirror whilst sitting comfortably in the drivers seat, so joystick control is essential for this.Finally, both my cars will adjust the driver's seat and door mirrors accoring to which key is used to unlock the car. Unlike the stupid touchscreen concept, this is technology working for an easier life
Squiggs said:
When they were first became common place I could never understand why wing mirrors needed to be controlled by a little joy stick?????
You set your mirrors as to how you need to see out of them - and that's it!
Obviously if you're driving along and suddenly and unexpectedly get a giraffes neck grafted between your head and shoulders then yes the joy stick facility may become a useful gadget.
But for normal mortals as long as you drive that vehicle you shouldn't feel the need to momentarily adjust the mirrors!
And so I put it to the collective that the wing mirror joy stick control was the forefront of 'car designers unnecessary control syndrome'
Nope. Manually adjusting the nearside mirror every time my fiancée's driven the car would be a PITA. I also lower the nearside one whilst parallel parking (some cars can be set to do this for you automatically). Allows you to park as close as possible whilst avoiding kerbed wheels.You set your mirrors as to how you need to see out of them - and that's it!
Obviously if you're driving along and suddenly and unexpectedly get a giraffes neck grafted between your head and shoulders then yes the joy stick facility may become a useful gadget.
But for normal mortals as long as you drive that vehicle you shouldn't feel the need to momentarily adjust the mirrors!
And so I put it to the collective that the wing mirror joy stick control was the forefront of 'car designers unnecessary control syndrome'
Designers also seem to believe that everyone wants to play computer games, you cant turn the radio on until you have the pork sword and wizard sleeves. I am resisting changing the range rover till they put a gear leaver in it rather than the jag knob.
Why don't they understand that the people who can afford them are fat old gits like me who just want it to work, they seem to think if it isn't broke it has not got enough features.
Why don't they understand that the people who can afford them are fat old gits like me who just want it to work, they seem to think if it isn't broke it has not got enough features.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Give me an analogue instrument cluster any day of the week!
Not a big colour LCD screen in any of my cars - heaven!
The worst I ever droive was Mk4 Mondeo with a 'Converse' system or something. Incredibly tacky looking and not in the least bit clear.
I'm also probably in the minority in that I prefer a 2D/plan view on Sat Nav.
Not a big colour LCD screen in any of my cars - heaven!
The worst I ever droive was Mk4 Mondeo with a 'Converse' system or something. Incredibly tacky looking and not in the least bit clear.
I'm also probably in the minority in that I prefer a 2D/plan view on Sat Nav.
v8250 said:
Tim, this is not just you. Cars have become steadily worse for completely unecessary pseudo-functional tosh. My daily driver is a Forester 2.5XT. It has just the right number of necessary bits to make life very comfortable. Any more would be technology overload.
The other month I was with a girlfriend who has a near perverse penchant for fast Mercedes, she has one of these super-dooper AMG things. I drove the car home in utter disbelief as the dashboard, and every other nook and cranny, lit up like a Christmas tree on Bonfire Night. Once we arrived at home we carefully counted the number of buttons in/on the car. We counted ninety-six bloody buttons, yes ninety-six, many of which are multi-function[!!] Who needs ninety-six buttons in car? And if so, why? Now, the statement I put to the modern day car manufacturers is this, 'Car drivers are meant to be driving the car as it is purportedly designed for, not having constant distractions from unecessary blinged up chav'esque chintz controls.'
Sadly, the majority of the population having sheep-like tendencies now aspire to this type of car. You see, they know no different and it is the norm' for them to be able to control the household central heating system from the driver's seat whilst travelling at 85mph on the M4/M40/M6 et al. And even better if the wife can turn on/off the washing machine when entering the supermarket car park whilst having simultaneous interactive Facetime...whatever this may be?
Current car designers are under immense pressure to find that unique selling point, something the competition hasn't got. Of course, what they don't realize is that the automobile is nothing new. It's all been done before. Fast cars, slow cars, family cars, big cars, cheap cars, expensive cars. And let's face it, behind all the marketing hype [read...bullst] the technologies used are nothing new. The materials used are nothing new. The designers approach to design is nothing new and ultimately the end product is...not new. But the current car manufacturers engineering teams believe, to a man, or woman, that what they're designing and promoting is new and for the better good...well at least for the better good of employment and the economy.
Interestingly, I actually believe we are seeing, or are soon to see, a complete change to the ownership 'use' of the car. With the advent of the Google/+ others driver-less vehicles people will very soon order their driver-less 'car' as a pay per ride service where they can have, and above all use, as much tech' as possible whilst on the move. Whether the likes of Audi, Mercedes, VAG et al will offer such tantalizing devices, who knows. But I for one am with you in that car manufacturers need to get to grips with their ridiculous belief that people must have the, much unneeded, must have ICE-type gimmicks.
So you are in a car with a girl who likes fast cars and you count the buttons in the car.The other month I was with a girlfriend who has a near perverse penchant for fast Mercedes, she has one of these super-dooper AMG things. I drove the car home in utter disbelief as the dashboard, and every other nook and cranny, lit up like a Christmas tree on Bonfire Night. Once we arrived at home we carefully counted the number of buttons in/on the car. We counted ninety-six bloody buttons, yes ninety-six, many of which are multi-function[!!] Who needs ninety-six buttons in car? And if so, why? Now, the statement I put to the modern day car manufacturers is this, 'Car drivers are meant to be driving the car as it is purportedly designed for, not having constant distractions from unecessary blinged up chav'esque chintz controls.'
Sadly, the majority of the population having sheep-like tendencies now aspire to this type of car. You see, they know no different and it is the norm' for them to be able to control the household central heating system from the driver's seat whilst travelling at 85mph on the M4/M40/M6 et al. And even better if the wife can turn on/off the washing machine when entering the supermarket car park whilst having simultaneous interactive Facetime...whatever this may be?
Current car designers are under immense pressure to find that unique selling point, something the competition hasn't got. Of course, what they don't realize is that the automobile is nothing new. It's all been done before. Fast cars, slow cars, family cars, big cars, cheap cars, expensive cars. And let's face it, behind all the marketing hype [read...bulls
t] the technologies used are nothing new. The materials used are nothing new. The designers approach to design is nothing new and ultimately the end product is...not new. But the current car manufacturers engineering teams believe, to a man, or woman, that what they're designing and promoting is new and for the better good...well at least for the better good of employment and the economy.Interestingly, I actually believe we are seeing, or are soon to see, a complete change to the ownership 'use' of the car. With the advent of the Google/+ others driver-less vehicles people will very soon order their driver-less 'car' as a pay per ride service where they can have, and above all use, as much tech' as possible whilst on the move. Whether the likes of Audi, Mercedes, VAG et al will offer such tantalizing devices, who knows. But I for one am with you in that car manufacturers need to get to grips with their ridiculous belief that people must have the, much unneeded, must have ICE-type gimmicks.
Interesting.
Only joking.
It is ridiculous the amount of tech that are in cars now.
v8250 said:
Tim Farquhar said:
Is it just me, or are cars generally becoming way too complicated to control easily whilst driving. Regards. Tim the Luddite.
Tim, this is not just you. Cars have become steadily worse for completely unecessary pseudo-functional tosh. My daily driver is a Forester 2.5XT. It has just the right number of necessary bits to make life very comfortable. Any more would be technology overload.The other month I was with a girlfriend who has a near perverse penchant for fast Mercedes, she has one of these super-dooper AMG things. I drove the car home in utter disbelief as the dashboard, and every other nook and cranny, lit up like a Christmas tree on Bonfire Night. Once we arrived at home we carefully counted the number of buttons in/on the car. We counted ninety-six bloody buttons, yes ninety-six, many of which are multi-function[!!] Who needs ninety-six buttons in car? And if so, why? Now, the statement I put to the modern day car manufacturers is this, 'Car drivers are meant to be driving the car as it is purportedly designed for, not having constant distractions from unecessary blinged up chav'esque chintz controls.'
Sadly, the majority of the population having sheep-like tendencies now aspire to this type of car. You see, they know no different and it is the norm' for them to be able to control the household central heating system from the driver's seat whilst travelling at 85mph on the M4/M40/M6 et al. And even better if the wife can turn on/off the washing machine when entering the supermarket car park whilst having simultaneous interactive Facetime...whatever this may be?
Current car designers are under immense pressure to find that unique selling point, something the competition hasn't got. Of course, what they don't realize is that the automobile is nothing new. It's all been done before. Fast cars, slow cars, family cars, big cars, cheap cars, expensive cars. And let's face it, behind all the marketing hype [read...bulls
t] the technologies used are nothing new. The materials used are nothing new. The designers approach to design is nothing new and ultimately the end product is...not new. But the current car manufacturers engineering teams believe, to a man, or woman, that what they're designing and promoting is new and for the better good...well at least for the better good of employment and the economy.Interestingly, I actually believe we are seeing, or are soon to see, a complete change to the ownership 'use' of the car. With the advent of the Google/+ others driver-less vehicles people will very soon order their driver-less 'car' as a pay per ride service where they can have, and above all use, as much tech' as possible whilst on the move. Whether the likes of Audi, Mercedes, VAG et al will offer such tantalizing devices, who knows. But I for one am with you in that car manufacturers need to get to grips with their ridiculous belief that people must have the, much unneeded, must have ICE-type gimmicks.
Clivey said:
Squiggs said:
When they were first became common place I could never understand why wing mirrors needed to be controlled by a little joy stick?????
You set your mirrors as to how you need to see out of them - and that's it!
Obviously if you're driving along and suddenly and unexpectedly get a giraffes neck grafted between your head and shoulders then yes the joy stick facility may become a useful gadget.
But for normal mortals as long as you drive that vehicle you shouldn't feel the need to momentarily adjust the mirrors!
And so I put it to the collective that the wing mirror joy stick control was the forefront of 'car designers unnecessary control syndrome'
Nope. Manually adjusting the nearside mirror every time my fiancée's driven the car would be a PITA. I also lower the nearside one whilst parallel parking (some cars can be set to do this for you automatically). Allows you to park as close as possible whilst avoiding kerbed wheels.You set your mirrors as to how you need to see out of them - and that's it!
Obviously if you're driving along and suddenly and unexpectedly get a giraffes neck grafted between your head and shoulders then yes the joy stick facility may become a useful gadget.
But for normal mortals as long as you drive that vehicle you shouldn't feel the need to momentarily adjust the mirrors!
And so I put it to the collective that the wing mirror joy stick control was the forefront of 'car designers unnecessary control syndrome'
Way back wing mirrors used to be mounted on the front of the wings ...... that really made things challenging
Edited by Squiggs on Saturday 30th August 19:22
Just thinking along the same lines myself, when did ICE become more important than being able to see out of the car, this about my 159 where the ICE system is perched above the heating controls which you have to contort your hand around the gear lever to get at. I was also watching the ad for the Fiesta and the text to speech "feature" first thoughts through my mind - Christ! yet another distraction, how important is it to see what the latest text you've received is while you're driving!
The idea of touch screen interfaces, even with haptic feedback, is always a bad idea as you're always going to have to take your eyes off the road to see what your digit is prodding at or, more likely, why you've changed to Radio 4 instead of putting the heating on and then wondering why your car's braking as the radar controlled anti-crash system kicks in (which you shouldn't need because you should be concentrating on driving) to prevent you slamming into the arse of an artic, which of course you should've seen but didn't because you were fiddling around with the cars controls.
...and breath (woo-sa), a wee bit long but mini rant over (IT tech/tech demonstrator myself).
The idea of touch screen interfaces, even with haptic feedback, is always a bad idea as you're always going to have to take your eyes off the road to see what your digit is prodding at or, more likely, why you've changed to Radio 4 instead of putting the heating on and then wondering why your car's braking as the radar controlled anti-crash system kicks in (which you shouldn't need because you should be concentrating on driving) to prevent you slamming into the arse of an artic, which of course you should've seen but didn't because you were fiddling around with the cars controls.
...and breath (woo-sa), a wee bit long but mini rant over (IT tech/tech demonstrator myself).
Squiggs said:
Awh - fancy not being able to remember how parallel parking was taught during your driving lessons and forgetting that the kerb is usually situated in a dead straight line immediately between the road and the path
Way back wing mirrors used to be mounted on the front of the wings ...... that really made things challenging
Actually, learners are now taught to lower their nearside mirror so that they can see the kerb. Way back wing mirrors used to be mounted on the front of the wings ...... that really made things challenging
Edited by Squiggs on Saturday 30th August 19:22
Foxtrot Oscar said:
So you are in a car with a girl who likes fast cars and you count the buttons in the car. Interesting. Only joking. It is ridiculous the amount of tech that are in cars now.
Thanks, FO, fortunately we know each very well and all the appropriately necessary buttons were pressed for the next few hours. I was even a very good boy in making the breakfast to recharge her batteries 
Meh, car drivers get off lightly.
There are not even paper charts or manuals anymore, all in the electronic system. If there is an emergency the aircraft detects it and automatically brings up the Quick Reference Handbook page relating to the failure. There's growing concern amongst aviation experts that pilots are becoming too focussed on programming the various systems aboard the aircraft now that they neglect to actually fly the aircraft, they just have so much faith in the avionics now. American Airlines Flight 965 is a good example of just that.
Maybe we need full Head Up Displays with all the vitals (including the radio of course) shown as your are looking out the window, similar to what modern passenger aircraft are starting to come fitted with, and what military jets have had for years.
It would be good for satnavs too, being able to highlight roads and junctions just like the aircraft HUDs highlight the selected runway so that they can be easily seen even in dense fog.
Someone get me another beer.
There are not even paper charts or manuals anymore, all in the electronic system. If there is an emergency the aircraft detects it and automatically brings up the Quick Reference Handbook page relating to the failure. There's growing concern amongst aviation experts that pilots are becoming too focussed on programming the various systems aboard the aircraft now that they neglect to actually fly the aircraft, they just have so much faith in the avionics now. American Airlines Flight 965 is a good example of just that.
Maybe we need full Head Up Displays with all the vitals (including the radio of course) shown as your are looking out the window, similar to what modern passenger aircraft are starting to come fitted with, and what military jets have had for years.
It would be good for satnavs too, being able to highlight roads and junctions just like the aircraft HUDs highlight the selected runway so that they can be easily seen even in dense fog.
Someone get me another beer.
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