E petition to try and sort out No tax disc mess
Discussion
So when you sell a car you must claim back the remaining tax on it, less whatever chunk of the month you're currently on. So gives you money back that you'd normally give away with the car.
Old tax system the maximum you'll lose out on is about £20 when you sell, or £40ish when you sell a max tax band on the current tax system. You'd have to sell your car on the 1st of the month, several times a year in order for this to give you a noticeable kick in the nuts
Old tax system the maximum you'll lose out on is about £20 when you sell, or £40ish when you sell a max tax band on the current tax system. You'd have to sell your car on the 1st of the month, several times a year in order for this to give you a noticeable kick in the nuts
DrDoofenshmirtz said:
Jooks said:
I don't see what the fuss is about.
In other words, you don't really understand the issue with new system.The issue is, each time a car is sold, our glorious leaders get a FULL months tax (unless the car is sold on the last day of the month).
The seller get's a refund to the start of the NEXT full month.
The buyer can only buy tax from the BEGINNING of the current month.
See the problem now?
Of course, if you drive a girls car you probably wont be too bothered. But if you're on Pistonheads, you're probably a bad boy driving around in something more hideously polluting with a high tax band. If you're in the highest band, that's £41 each time a car is sold in free tax for the Government.
The only option now is to sell cars on, or near the last day of the month.
SORN it if you're that bothered
and how many cars do you sell?
I know it's old and boring to bring up the "road tax doesn't pay for roads since 1937 blah blah blah" thing...
but really, if you're going to make a petition, is it really that hard to spend the extra 30 seconds getting the right term?
Superficial yes, but it makes it look unprofessional, and that's a big turn off. If you've misunderstood the name, what else have you misunderstood?
but really, if you're going to make a petition, is it really that hard to spend the extra 30 seconds getting the right term?
Superficial yes, but it makes it look unprofessional, and that's a big turn off. If you've misunderstood the name, what else have you misunderstood?
Hugo a Gogo said:
DrDoofenshmirtz said:
Jooks said:
I don't see what the fuss is about.
In other words, you don't really understand the issue with new system.The issue is, each time a car is sold, our glorious leaders get a FULL months tax (unless the car is sold on the last day of the month).
The seller get's a refund to the start of the NEXT full month.
The buyer can only buy tax from the BEGINNING of the current month.
See the problem now?
Of course, if you drive a girls car you probably wont be too bothered. But if you're on Pistonheads, you're probably a bad boy driving around in something more hideously polluting with a high tax band. If you're in the highest band, that's £41 each time a car is sold in free tax for the Government.
The only option now is to sell cars on, or near the last day of the month.
SORN it if you're that bothered
and how many cars do you sell?
Don't forget, the buyer will also have to pay tax for that whole month that the seller already paid for.
When buying second hand cars, a little bit of tax remaining was a nice thing to have. Not any more.
I'm amazed people are being so blazay about the whole thing.
Personally, it doesn't really affect me personally because I don't buy or sell many cars. But that doesn't stop me seeing the PITA and sheer wrongness in this new system.
I'm being blase about it because I live in Germany so I don't really care 
we get our car tax back calculated to the exact day....
really if affects car buyers more than sellers, car sellers have always either given away the tax (or worked it out in the price) or cashed it in, complete months just the same (talking about the UK now)
buyers now have to pay for the complete month up to the day they actually buy it
we get our car tax back calculated to the exact day....
really if affects car buyers more than sellers, car sellers have always either given away the tax (or worked it out in the price) or cashed it in, complete months just the same (talking about the UK now)
buyers now have to pay for the complete month up to the day they actually buy it
The Moose said:
Driver101 said:
I don't understand why they've gone for the new system.
Those who don't have insurance can't get road tax. It was obvious that they might not be insured when the car had an out of date tax disc. The tax disc was the first give away.
The government have apparently been trying to discourage big dirty cars. The new system will make more people capable of paying for dirtier cars.
Loads of people seem to be happy paying £500 per month finance, but not £500 per year on road tax in one payment. Now that you can pay monthly that will make it more attractive to those who live life month to month.
Not really bothered about the refund of road tax. Unless you own big engined cars and change cars frequently, the actually cost will be small.
It was always the case you could only get refunds for whole months.
If no road tax is passed on, the new buyer will have to prove online that he has insurance.
My only issue is how they are going to detect who has tax on the road. How many people will have the facilities to detect and catch the dodgers?
You haven't needed to provide proof of insurance to tax a vehicle for a while...Those who don't have insurance can't get road tax. It was obvious that they might not be insured when the car had an out of date tax disc. The tax disc was the first give away.
The government have apparently been trying to discourage big dirty cars. The new system will make more people capable of paying for dirtier cars.
Loads of people seem to be happy paying £500 per month finance, but not £500 per year on road tax in one payment. Now that you can pay monthly that will make it more attractive to those who live life month to month.
Not really bothered about the refund of road tax. Unless you own big engined cars and change cars frequently, the actually cost will be small.
It was always the case you could only get refunds for whole months.
If no road tax is passed on, the new buyer will have to prove online that he has insurance.
My only issue is how they are going to detect who has tax on the road. How many people will have the facilities to detect and catch the dodgers?
When I renew my road tax online, it checks the MID as part of the process.
Reading the Post Office's instructions it tell you still have to have a valid insurance document the day the policy starts.
http://m.postoffice.co.uk/mt/www.postoffice.co.uk/...
As the value/cost of those XX Days goes into the same 'pot of money' as the rest of all the car tax revenue - technically we are all benefitting from that extra money negating the need to increase taxes elsewhere at the next budget (including Road Fund licence).
Its not like that extra revenue is being sidelined out on receipt for the Civil Service Xmas party (is it?).
Although, I can see the concern as if you BUY lots of cars on a regular basis, then you will need to start factoring the cost of 1-30days of lost tax into your negotiations with the seller.
If we put all other arguments aside briefly, the petition is lodging a grievance against the fact that the government will get two sets of payments for the same month in a lot of cases. Not much on an individual car, but add them all together and it will probably surmount to hundreds of thousands of pounds across the board. Yet again screwing a bit of extra £££ out of us.
Surely their systems aren't so antiquated that they can't work out if a motorist has paid for 365 days tax at £280.00, that when he sold it, for example, he was entitled to a refund of 73 days. Why is that so damn difficult?!
Surely their systems aren't so antiquated that they can't work out if a motorist has paid for 365 days tax at £280.00, that when he sold it, for example, he was entitled to a refund of 73 days. Why is that so damn difficult?!
I signed it as they dont let me off a penny, being a PAYE monkey, they even clawed back the family allowance and made me do a tax return, then asked me for some more money back fir the Child Benefit, that was to the minute, to the penny so not sure why they think this is ok ?
Computers can work out things to Nanoseconds and below, I could write the code to refund VED to the second, so not sure why they cant ?
It isn't a big deal really, but yet another way we get dicked at every turn. I could see why you lost bits of months on the clumsy old system with the disk set as monthly, but this does not have a disk, it uses actual dates and times.
This wont work, i.e. the petition, but I will endeavour to change cars at the end of a month.
Computers can work out things to Nanoseconds and below, I could write the code to refund VED to the second, so not sure why they cant ?
It isn't a big deal really, but yet another way we get dicked at every turn. I could see why you lost bits of months on the clumsy old system with the disk set as monthly, but this does not have a disk, it uses actual dates and times.
This wont work, i.e. the petition, but I will endeavour to change cars at the end of a month.
wibblebrain said:
It's no different to the current system with paper licences.
I'm giving up after this... it IS entirely different.The changes mean the seller HAS to cash is any remaining tax. You can't throw it in as part of the deal. The RFL goes with the owner, not the vehicle (sort of).
The new buyer can't drive away the vehicle until it's taxed in their name. the problem here of course is that the vehicle won't yet be in their name...so when the f
k CAN they legally drive it away?It's a real mess.
Hol said:
As the value/cost of those XX Days goes into the same 'pot of money' as the rest of all the car tax revenue - technically we are all benefitting from that extra money negating the need to increase taxes elsewhere at the next budget (including Road Fund licence).
Some people do make me 
Speed Badger said:
If we put all other arguments aside briefly, the petition is lodging a grievance against the fact that the government will get two sets of payments for the same month in a lot of cases. Not much on an individual car, but add them all together and it will probably surmount to hundreds of thousands of pounds across the board. Yet again screwing a bit of extra £££ out of us.
Surely their systems aren't so antiquated that they can't work out if a motorist has paid for 365 days tax at £280.00, that when he sold it, for example, he was entitled to a refund of 73 days. Why is that so damn difficult?!
Entirely agree. It would appear thatSurely their systems aren't so antiquated that they can't work out if a motorist has paid for 365 days tax at £280.00, that when he sold it, for example, he was entitled to a refund of 73 days. Why is that so damn difficult?!
1)Yes their systems are that antiquated
2)Because IT contracts are signed by risk-averse morons and the requirements from government are always motorised goal posts, getting a simple mathematical calculation of this type incorporated would take years and cost billions.
It is frustrating and embarrassing our public services can't do better.
I like the new system, apart from loosing the rest of the month's tax, it's a step in the right direction.
-No insurance check, no waiting for MID to update, no faffing arguing with post office what constitutes an insurance certificate, but this has been the case since December.
-Tax no longer a bartering tool when buying/selling.
-Monthly payments good idea, can make running 2nd/3rd cars easier. And good if you change cars frequently.
-Selling/buying a SORN'd car going to be much easier.
-No insurance check, no waiting for MID to update, no faffing arguing with post office what constitutes an insurance certificate, but this has been the case since December.
-Tax no longer a bartering tool when buying/selling.
-Monthly payments good idea, can make running 2nd/3rd cars easier. And good if you change cars frequently.
-Selling/buying a SORN'd car going to be much easier.
Dammit said:
Or man up- it's a round of drinks ffs.
Yes, to us it's only a round of drinks, but to the govt it's a million rounds of drinks (well, it is assuming that a million cars change hand every year which may not be true).It's also like you buy a round, finish your drink and go home and your mates have to pay again for the drinks they haven't finished and you've already paid for. (Well, sort of!!)
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