E petition to try and sort out No tax disc mess
Discussion
Prawnboy said:
kambites said:
I prefer the new system.
I'll happily lose the odd month of tax when I swap cars in order to avoid having a bloody great piece of paper stuck to my windscreen all the time.
you know the perforated bit makes it smaller I'll happily lose the odd month of tax when I swap cars in order to avoid having a bloody great piece of paper stuck to my windscreen all the time.
DrDoofenshmirtz said:
wibblebrain said:
It's no different to the current system with paper licences.
I'm giving up after this... it IS entirely different.The changes mean the seller HAS to cash is any remaining tax. You can't throw it in as part of the deal. The RFL goes with the owner, not the vehicle (sort of).
The new buyer can't drive away the vehicle until it's taxed in their name. the problem here of course is that the vehicle won't yet be in their name...so when the f
k CAN they legally drive it away?It's a real mess.
Most of the discussion has focussed on the "paying twice for one month of VED" issue. However it is this aspect that is no different - with the old paper system if you returned a tax disc in the middle of a month you would only get a refund the unused months and the new owner would have to backdate the new disc to the beginning of the month.
I'd agree that the non transferability is daft.
How do you tax the vehicle before you buy? I assume you don't until you get home. ANPR won't flash as it will still be taxed by previous owner.
Without trying to stir the hornets nest.....will the refund be issued on the date the DVLA process the V5 change or date of sale. If the former that is another week or so gone.
Without trying to stir the hornets nest.....will the refund be issued on the date the DVLA process the V5 change or date of sale. If the former that is another week or so gone.
DrDoofenshmirtz said:
Jooks said:
I don't see what the fuss is about.
In other words, you don't really understand the issue with new system.The issue is, each time a car is sold, our glorious leaders get a FULL months tax (unless the car is sold on the last day of the month).
The seller get's a refund to the start of the NEXT full month.
The buyer can only buy tax from the BEGINNING of the current month.
See the problem now?
Of course, if you drive a girls car you probably wont be too bothered. But if you're on Pistonheads, you're probably a bad boy driving around in something more hideously polluting with a high tax band. If you're in the highest band, that's £41 each time a car is sold in free tax for the Government.
The only option now is to sell cars on, or near the last day of the month.
It's a small cost, even at the high band.
Either way, someone gains.
Yes, I do drive what you would probably refer to as a girls car, for good reason but that's another story and doesn't stop me or anyone being a PH'er.
Mr Gear said:
£30 annual tax divided by 12 months... £2.50.
Nah, couldn't give a flying f to be honest.
It's the way we do things in the UK, a little financial pressure makes people do big things ... like the way the carrot of reducing your road tax from £145 to £30 a year will make some spend £3,000 a year on depreciation as they buy a new Diesel Corsa.Nah, couldn't give a flying f to be honest.
So it is with this. Buyers will be trying to buy early in the month, whilst sellers will be keen to delay the sale to later. All to save a few pennies.
matt21 said:
How do you tax the vehicle before you buy? I assume you don't until you get home. ANPR won't flash as it will still be taxed by previous owner.
How is part-ex going to work, especially if you're changing vehicles on the same insurance policy. You set the insurance to change at, say mid-day so you can drive to the garage late morning, sort out the paperwork, leave after 12 o'clock (or ring the insurance while you're there). Currently, depending on the dealer, you either have to disappear at some point to the Post Office with V5 slip and cover note you printed earlier; or the nice dealer taxes it for you under their trade insurance. With the new system, you'll leave the showroom with a cover note in case you're stopped and no way of getting the vehicle taxed until the MID updates?Jooks said:
I understand, however should I sell my car, for instance on the 15th of the month, and cash in remaining VED, the scenario is exactly the same, as Mr. Buyer still has to buy from the first of that month under the current system.
It's a small cost, even at the high band.
Either way, someone gains.
Yes, I do drive what you would probably refer to as a girls car, for good reason but that's another story and doesn't stop me or anyone being a PH'er.
Yes, but neither you nor the buyer gains so it is just another stealth tax to try to keep the base rate Income Tax at 20% - only HMG gains, probably to try to make up the lost revenue from all those buying diesel cars due to their low road fund licence and BIK regime based on CO2 emissions.It's a small cost, even at the high band.
Either way, someone gains.
Yes, I do drive what you would probably refer to as a girls car, for good reason but that's another story and doesn't stop me or anyone being a PH'er.
A bit like the Insurance Premium Tax that you have to pay on insurance cover that HMG requires you to have!
If only I could tax my car wherever I choose in the (supposedly free-trade) EU like I can buy my booze and fags - always subject to HMG Revenue & Customs arbitrarily imposed limits of course.
DrDoofenshmirtz said:
Hol said:
As the value/cost of those XX Days goes into the same 'pot of money' as the rest of all the car tax revenue - technically we are all benefitting from that extra money negating the need to increase taxes elsewhere at the next budget (including Road Fund licence).
Some people do make me 
Where do you think the extra money goes when you buy a car every two or three years?
It's a 4% increase in RFL if you buy every two years mid month and a system that is cheaper for them to run.
The time to start complaining is if they still put the cost of car tax up in the next budget, when technically they already have.
Edited by Hol on Saturday 30th August 09:56
What's stopping me buying a car, then refusing to tax it until the 1st of the next month, safe in the knowledge that the car is taxed, and will show as such to any anpr system (which is what will solely police tax in the absence of discs). The seller wont check will he.
I have the option at any time of purchasing tax, say if I have to produce documents at a police station, safe in the knowledge the tax in my name will be backdated.
Part of me wonders whether this scheme hasn't been designed partially to take the above into account, by intentionally not returning the sellers tax to the second, it ensures that problems buying tax on the day etc don't result in anpr pings as the car is covered by default by the sellers tax.
I have the option at any time of purchasing tax, say if I have to produce documents at a police station, safe in the knowledge the tax in my name will be backdated.
Part of me wonders whether this scheme hasn't been designed partially to take the above into account, by intentionally not returning the sellers tax to the second, it ensures that problems buying tax on the day etc don't result in anpr pings as the car is covered by default by the sellers tax.
Edited by jamesc_1729 on Saturday 30th August 10:16
Matt_N said:
Jooks said:
You can only claim back the remaining full months under the current system.
I don't see what the fuss is about.
Because under the new scheme there will be scenarios were the VED for a given month is paid twice.I don't see what the fuss is about.
This is because the DVLA will only refund to the last full month and the new buyer will have to tax from the 1st of the month they buy the car in, which yes is the same as it is now, but you can currently sell a car with tax on which is what most people do as it's a selling point, whereas you won't be able to in the future.
If an average tax is £130 a year these days then its costing the buyer an extra tenner and probably saving the seller money.
How often do people change their cars? Maybe once every two or three years?
So given the money saved on stamps / paying the post office and on paper costs, and this little bit of "extra" revenue, is that not a better thing than putting EVERYONES road tax up??
defblade said:
How is part-ex going to work, especially if you're changing vehicles on the same insurance policy. You set the insurance to change at, say mid-day so you can drive to the garage late morning, sort out the paperwork, leave after 12 o'clock (or ring the insurance while you're there). Currently, depending on the dealer, you either have to disappear at some point to the Post Office with V5 slip and cover note you printed earlier; or the nice dealer taxes it for you under their trade insurance. With the new system, you'll leave the showroom with a cover note in case you're stopped and no way of getting the vehicle taxed until the MID updates?
DVLA set up an automated taxation phone line (0300 123 4321) a while ago to allow instant taxation from the 1st you'll can tax the vehicle straight away. The online system will also allow instant taxation. There used to be an issue with taxation on same day as your issuance was due to update but this has been "solved" somehow, I suspect the DVLA have stopped checking for insurance details if start day of taxation is same as the application date.
b0rk said:
There used to be an issue with taxation on same day as your issuance was due to update but this has been "solved" somehow, I suspect the DVLA have stopped checking for insurance details if start day of taxation is same as the application date.
Something has changed as for years I never used to be able to renew the tax on my daughter's car online as is was registered 1st March and the insurance runs out 23.59 on the 28th Feb. But this year I tried it and it worked.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff