Is this taking the michael?
Discussion
Thanks for your answer Zwolf,
BMW 4 series, it's going to be the 3 series coupes. But now it's got the gran-coupe 4 doors in it. To me coupes have 2 doors?
Audi A5, why make a whole new range, bring out a 2 door coupe A4? That's what it is, melted a bit and stretched a bit.
Merc A, B, C, E, S class and I'll have forgotten a few.
Kuga, Tiguan, etc, etc.
Give it another few years and I'll be able to walk into a dealer, sit in a car and tell the dealer that I want one that's another 8 inches longer and 5 inches taller; "Yes sir, no problem, that is the 142nd model up in our range."
When car manufacturers bring out new / updated cars faster than Apple brings out new iPhones that is really saying something. And it's not good!
We don't need it but we're expected to pay for it just to keep shareholders wallets fat.
(sorry, I'll pick up my rant box and shuffle away...)
Zwolf said:
The manufacturers make enough money to develop new products, that process is extremely expensive.
I think this is the biggest bugbear I have with just about all the manufacturers, why do they keep on just "filling in" what they perceive as gaps in the ranges?BMW 4 series, it's going to be the 3 series coupes. But now it's got the gran-coupe 4 doors in it. To me coupes have 2 doors?
Audi A5, why make a whole new range, bring out a 2 door coupe A4? That's what it is, melted a bit and stretched a bit.
Merc A, B, C, E, S class and I'll have forgotten a few.
Kuga, Tiguan, etc, etc.
Give it another few years and I'll be able to walk into a dealer, sit in a car and tell the dealer that I want one that's another 8 inches longer and 5 inches taller; "Yes sir, no problem, that is the 142nd model up in our range."
When car manufacturers bring out new / updated cars faster than Apple brings out new iPhones that is really saying something. And it's not good!
We don't need it but we're expected to pay for it just to keep shareholders wallets fat.
(sorry, I'll pick up my rant box and shuffle away...)
I sell used cars and the only time the fuel light has ever been on when a car was collected is when the customer insisted on the car having a fresh mot so I used nearly 1/4 tank during the test drive and taking the car to the mot station and having it tested, customer did complain but I explained where the£30 fuel went and he said that was fair enough.
I wouldn't expect a full tank if the fuel was declined but I would expect the fuel light to be off. I think the salesperson was wrong for even mentioning the fuel light in the first place. He should just deal with the issue when the customer arrives to collect so it's not on the customers mind.
I wouldn't expect a full tank if the fuel was declined but I would expect the fuel light to be off. I think the salesperson was wrong for even mentioning the fuel light in the first place. He should just deal with the issue when the customer arrives to collect so it's not on the customers mind.
Bit tight to have the light on on brand new car... maybe the dealer wants you to visit that fuel/matts option again?
Anyway, I've never bought a new car, sad fact, but every car I have bought has had the fuel light on. I pretty sure its been bucketing it down to each time I picked it up, but thats a tad O/T.
Anyway, I've never bought a new car, sad fact, but every car I have bought has had the fuel light on. I pretty sure its been bucketing it down to each time I picked it up, but thats a tad O/T.
Butter Face said:
I'm also a sad act, Swift Sport mats (specific to the sport, with sport embroidered on them) are listed @ £65.23+ VAT so you actually got offered a good deal 
I wonder if they'd supply those?We got a new Mitsubishi and the dealer did a "mats + flaps" deal which I can't remember the price of now, but the mats were the dealer's crappy own branded ones.
Replaced them some time later with pukka Mitsubishi carpet mats and the F+R set was £22, and when I said "wow" thinking that's cheap, the parts guys said, "I can knock 10% off"!
Fast Bug said:
TonyRPH said:
Fast Bug said:
I'll refer you again to my comment that £20 of fuel in every vehicle is £36k off our bottom line. Margins are tight with new vehicles until you get in to some of the higher value cars (and even then they can be tight). If you've no money in a deal, where does the cost of the fuel come from?
You lying barsteward - we all know you dealers are making squillions on every sale.... 
I would think a few quids worth of fuel would be a good investment in trying to win a few hundreds worth of servicing work over the next couple of years.
My guess is that in some dealerships the sales department don't work very well with the money making service department. Shows lousy management, & thus a company to be avoided.
Our Mazda dealer made buying & servicing a car with them very pleasant. They got 4.5 years & 180,000 kilometers of servicing for their troubles so far. Going just a little further cost them little & gained heaps.
The ford dealer, not so pleasant, got the first service, & the warranty replacement of the transmission. Cutting a few pennies has cost them heaps.
My guess is that in some dealerships the sales department don't work very well with the money making service department. Shows lousy management, & thus a company to be avoided.
Our Mazda dealer made buying & servicing a car with them very pleasant. They got 4.5 years & 180,000 kilometers of servicing for their troubles so far. Going just a little further cost them little & gained heaps.
The ford dealer, not so pleasant, got the first service, & the warranty replacement of the transmission. Cutting a few pennies has cost them heaps.
Hasbeen said:
My guess is that in some dealerships the sales department don't work very well with the money making service department. Shows lousy management, & thus a company to be avoided.
This is often the case, in the last dealership I worked at the service manager and the sales manager where in a permenant state of war with each other.Each department manager has his own profit line which is reportable up the chain and on which there own monthly commision is based. The sales dept is often the service dept biggest customer and pays normal retail price for any work. In the dealership I worked in every used car had to have a safety check before it went on the pitch (duty of care)for which we were charged £120. We then often got a report saying this that and the other needed doing, this report sometimes turned out to be pure fiction. For example 12 month old car with 10k miles needing new discs and pads.
At the level lower, the salesmen and the techs, there was good cooperation and mutual help, because we were not fighting each other for the best profit line and ultimatly what was in our pay packet each month.
Last new car I bought not only came with a decent discount (OTR for 10% less than MRRP) and a tank of fuel but was delivered to my door whilst I was out of the country, and came with a written note from the Dealer Principal saying they'd take responsibility for the car until I was back and could inspect to accept. Had to get my own mats, though.
BFG TERRANO said:
NotAnotherTrader said:
Also with company fuel cards the fuel is discounted by 7-10p per litre so it's even cheaper for them to put 5l of petrol in the car.
What fuel card is this? Our company would take this, we're not getting this from Arval.NotAnotherTrader said:
Also with company fuel cards the fuel is discounted by 7-10p per litre so it's even cheaper for them to put 5l of petrol in the car.
Not the case with any I've used in the last 15 years. They're used for ease of accounting (each transaction tied to both a vehicle and an individual) and cashflow management (pay one big bill a month rather than at point of sale) over and above a company debit card.Sheepshanks said:
It is remarkable how glass palace dealerships costing £3-5M or more can (mainly) survive when they're almost giving away their products.
Because they run aftersales departments. Service, parts and bodyshop make the lion's share by far of a dealership's profit. If overall profit were a Victoria sponge, parts is one half of th esponge, servicing and bodyshop the other, the jam and cream are the used car sales (inc F&I and add-ons), new cars are the icing sugar sprinkled on top. Some figures to get your head around from the group I work for. Last year turnover was £105m. Net profit after taxes for all 22 businesses within it was £336k (0.32%) - admittedly that included recovering from a £700k loss the year before, so even saying we made a million pounds profit makes for a less than 1%. Which is considered acceptable/normal. 2% is the target fo rthis year and most of the big PLCs run at between 2-3% profit after taxes on turnovers of billions.
Gross profits are good - costs are huge.
Sheepshanks said:
Honda's OTR price includes a full tank of fuel.
IIRC Mercedes includes half a tank.
How many customers of those brands pay the MRRP though? Note that is the manufacturer's recommended retail price. The manufacturer isn't the one retailing the vehicle, that's the franchised dealer and it's their prerogative to charge what they like and include/not include such things as they see fit. As soon as people start going down the road of "What's your best price?"... IIRC Mercedes includes half a tank.
Edited by Zwolf on Sunday 31st August 12:06
oldnbold said:
At the level lower, the salesmen and the techs, there was good cooperation and mutual help, because we were not fighting each other for the best profit line and ultimatly what was in our pay packet each month.
Son of some family friends has been a mechanic at the local Mercedes dealer for 15yrs. He knew the sales manager's name but he doesn't know any of the other salesmen - they come and go so often and he doesn't normally interact directly with them. I thought that was incredible - he seems a decent sort of lad, and the dealership is small by modern standards.Zwolf said:
Some figures to get your head around from the group I work for. Last year turnover was £105m. Net profit after taxes for all 22 businesses within it was £336k (0.32%) - admittedly that included recovering from a £700k loss the year before, so even saying we made a million pounds profit makes for a less than 1%. Which is considered acceptable/normal. 2% is the target fo rthis year and most of the big PLCs run at between 2-3% profit after taxes on turnovers of billions.
Gross profits are good - costs are huge.
Raising money to fund the business must be interesting, to say the least.Gross profits are good - costs are huge.
Zwolf said:
Sheepshanks said:
Honda's OTR price includes a full tank of fuel.
IIRC Mercedes includes half a tank.
How many customers of those brands pay the MRRP though? IIRC Mercedes includes half a tank.
I wouldn't expect a full tank unless I'd negotiated for it, I always negotiate for mats if they aren't part of the spec.
That said I didn't ask for any fuel in my current car but the dealership put half a tank in for me as they knew I'd got a 40 mile journey home. I was pleasantly surprised!
That said I didn't ask for any fuel in my current car but the dealership put half a tank in for me as they knew I'd got a 40 mile journey home. I was pleasantly surprised!
Sheepshanks said:
I don't know - but why would that affect fuel supplied? Whenever I've bought a new car the delivery charge has always been itemised out on the invoice at its full price.
That's the invoiced cost of the manufacturer delivering the car to the dealership that is passed on to the customer. PDI, plates and fuel are dealer overheads that come out of their margin. n_const said:
Sheepshanks said:
Honda's OTR price includes a full tank of fuel.
.
Pretty sure it doesn't .......
"On The Road price
The recommended On The Road (OTR) price includes:
Delivery, number plates and a full tank of fuel £655
Vehicle first registration fee £55
First Year Rates of VED (12 months) See table on the right"
We're getting a second Jazz on Tuesday. It's discounted (although nothing like enough in my view) and I knew the OTR included fuel, but the salesman mentioned it (almost in passing) anyway.
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