RE: BAC Mono vs McLaren P1: Time For Tea?

[Dave Hedgehog]

coppice said:

Before everybody dies in fits of excitement at the P1's go (which is sort of what you expect for a gazillion quid ) you do realise that a cheap as chips (relatively ) pre owned Formula Jedi, Formula Renault. let alone an old F3 Dallara would leave the P1 for dead around any circuit you care to name- except ones with extremely long straights and no corners to speak of ?

so? whats your point? any one who can afford a P1 can afford all of the cars you mentioned as well, and as stated his track car would lap a P1 as well

[coppice]

My point is that I fail to understand why ludicrously expensive cars like the P 1 get so much attention for their performance and generate such feverish excitement when many cheap racing cars are in a different league and , come to that , many road legal cars at Santa Pod would leave it for dust in acceleration. Hardly anybody buys these daft hypercars and most of them use them to ponce around Kensington. Good to see somebody at least using a P1 in anger.

[Dave Hedgehog]

coppice said:

My point is that I fail to understand why ludicrously expensive cars like the P 1 get so much attention for their performance and generate such feverish excitement when many cheap racing cars are in a different league and , come to that , many road legal cars at Santa Pod would leave it for dust in acceleration. Hardly anybody buys these daft hypercars and most of them use them to ponce around Kensington. Good to see somebody at least using a P1 in anger.

hmm how to define cool and desirable and the motives behind it?

gold - cool/desirable
copper - not
P1 - cool/desirable
low formula race cars and santa pod drag cars - totally undesirable

go figure

i agree thou people who buy such cars just to pose about at 20mph or to shove them in a garage on the hope they appreciate should have them confiscated


and given to me


im not a huge fan of the P1 either, I would take a Zonda R over it every single time, and if i had a P1 i would sell it and get an LFA or CGT for the noise (or both lol) !!!!

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Saturday 30th August 08:37

[Terminator X]

coppice said:

Before everybody dies in fits of excitement at the P1's go (which is sort of what you expect for a gazillion quid ) you do realise that a cheap as chips (relatively ) pre owned Formula Jedi, Formula Renault. let alone an old F3 Dallara would leave the P1 for dead around any circuit you care to name- except ones with extremely long straights and no corners to speak of ?

Boo, hiss

TX.

[TheJimi]

coppice said:

Before everybody dies in fits of excitement at the P1's go (which is sort of what you expect for a gazillion quid ) you do realise that a cheap as chips (relatively ) pre owned Formula Jedi, Formula Renault. let alone an old F3 Dallara would leave the P1 for dead around any circuit you care to name- except ones with extremely long straights and no corners to speak of ?

Do I really need to point this out?

The P1 is, first and foremost, a road car with the associated compromises that makes it so. You are comparing a road car with singularly focussed racing cars, whether that be your Jedi or your drag strip special.

So an F3 Dallara would leave the P1 for dead around a circuit. Wait, really? Single seater, slicks 'n' wings racing car would leave a road car for dead around a circuit?

Wow. Who'd have thunk it?

[gregf40]

coppice said:

My point is that I fail to understand why ludicrously expensive cars like the P 1 get so much attention for their performance and generate such feverish excitement when many cheap racing cars are in a different league and , come to that , many road legal cars at Santa Pod would leave it for dust in acceleration. Hardly anybody buys these daft hypercars and most of them use them to ponce around Kensington. Good to see somebody at least using a P1 in anger.

Is this you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGFNozAlMZ0

[waynedear]

Terminator X said:

Had to laugh out loud at 2:30 as the P1 simply flies away!

TX.

The term 'catapult' occasionally used for fast cars and bikes should now only be used for the P1................

[StottyEvo]

coppice said:

My point is that I fail to understand why ludicrously expensive cars like the P 1 get so much attention for their performance and generate such feverish excitement when many cheap racing cars are in a different league and , come to that , many road legal cars at Santa Pod would leave it for dust in acceleration. Hardly anybody buys these daft hypercars and most of them use them to ponce around Kensington. Good to see somebody at least using a P1 in anger.

Can you take a racing car down to the shops? There's your answer.

Also if you put the P1 on slicks wouldn't it be as fast a fair few race cars around a circuit, despite being a road car.

[coppice]

Further to clarify ...the P1 is undoubtedly an amazing piece of engineering and nearly all the excitement generated by hypercars is how fast they will go around Dunsfold, Nurburgring etc. Of course you can take a P1 to Lidl and a Dallara would struggle with the speedbumps and possibly break your eggs on the way home . But the only shops most P1's will see are Harvey Nicks and Harrods , which they will parade past , usually driven by Eurotrash or Arab teenagers. A Hyundai is a better shopping car and so the only real criterion we judge a P1 by is its speed. Which is hugely quick by road car standards and really rather average by the vehicles which are used on the same venues where everybody wets themselves at the P1's pace. Only the McLaren F1 was different - hugely quick on road or track because it was light and not overburdened with gratuitously complex powertrain systems . A Veyron wouldn't last too long being driven around Le Mans if driven at whatever racing speed it could muster. I am obviously in a minority but given the choice between watching an old F5000 or F2 car drive fast round a circuit(let alone a modern racer) and a P1 give me the exciting visual and aural spectacle- and the sheer speed - of the real thing rather than a P1.

[Dave Hedgehog]

coppice said:

Of course you can take a P1 to Lidl and a Dallara would struggle with the speedbumps and possibly break your eggs on the way home .

i thought they had that trick suspension evolved from the 12c that ironed out bumps and gave a very smooth comfort ride when not in race mode

[3ananaPie]

The Mono is fast.. but the P1 on the straights... Incredible.

[bozzy101]

coppice said:

Only the McLaren F1 was different - hugely quick on road or track because it was light and not overburdened with gratuitously complex powertrain systems

Hi Coppice,

Your statement suggests a P1 is hampered round a track compared to the light, simple F1. Surely an F1 would be demolished on track by the P1? The P1 has over 20 years of technological advances over an F1! It's a shoot out I'd love to see though!

[coppice]

Yes , interesting prospect. But my £10 say neither P1 , Veyron, LaFerrari nor 918 will ever win Le Mans , unlike the F1.

[coppice]

Dave Hedgehog said:

coppice said:

Of course you can take a P1 to Lidl and a Dallara would struggle with the speedbumps and possibly break your eggs on the way home .

i thought they had that trick suspension evolved from the 12c that ironed out bumps and gave a very smooth comfort ride when not in race mode

Ermm- the Dallara is the car which would break your eggs . The P1 probably has a Ron Dennis conceived free range egg safe delivery function system for all I know.

[Randy Winkman]

coppice said:

Yes , interesting prospect. But my £10 say neither P1 , Veyron, LaFerrari nor 918 will ever win Le Mans , unlike the F1.

Though the rules are different now are they not?

[jcl]

coppice said:

Yes , interesting prospect. But my £10 say neither P1 , Veyron, LaFerrari nor 918 will ever win Le Mans , unlike the F1.

Nope none of those would win a WEC round against the incredibly complex R18 e-tron or TSO40's and neither would an F1...

Great video. I bet the Mono driver is having more fun and that's the point isn't it?

[mcerbm]

I was at this track day with my caterham and was lucky enough to get a passenger lift with Paul in the P1. The car was getting checked in-between runs. At some point in the morning his mechanics noticed that there was a mark in one of the tyres that they were observing on sac h run. As such he wasn't running it in race mode and both dials in the cockpit were at their medium setting. I was getting the impression he was holding back in the corners as well but still giving it full acceleration and braking. I can confirm that it is quite quick on the straights, we nudged 165mph on hanger straight which wasn't entered that quickly due to passing other cars at the preceding corner. Just an insight into why he wasn't pushing so hard in the corners.

[Erudite geezer]

The number plate on that P1 is appalling.

Doesn't look good on track and I would PMSL if I saw it on public roads too.

[sisu]

Gotta take this all with a grain of salt, Oliver Webb is a Professional racing driver. He is BAC's demonstration driver, not because he is an owner on a trackday, but because he is a fast racing driver.
I love the Mono, but the end of the video the moment where he is trying to catch a bar of soap at well over 100mph - that is very scary.

Which ever way you cut it the P1 just walks away from him. While I am sure there are arguments that x race car on x circuit would beat them it would be much more interesting if you looked at it another way.
BAC are using tried and tested 30 year old F3 technology, nothing wrong with it as is shown by the video. It would be nice to see what could happen if instead of the steel tubular frame, a frankly bag of nails sounding Ford duratec 2.3 engine and 6 spd pneumatic hewland gearbox they had the same resources to run the Mclaren P1 running gear of the 3.8 twin turbo/torque fill and 7 spd dual clutch with a BAC Mono carbon composite tub.
While I love what the Briggs bothers are doing and if you call them on Monday things are going well enough that they will tell you to take a ticket.

Please ignore the chrome horse with mustard up its jaksi and look at the photo of this as an amalgamation of these two cars, rather than what we have at the moment which is a MP4-12C on speed or 2002 F3 meets Björk.

[NJH]

If that BAC Mono doesn't have downforce its corner speeds when he has a clear run at the bends are pretty mind bending, you can see the numbers on the steering wheel.