Ride quality - Rover 75 vs Citroen C5?
Discussion
Okay, I've asked this on a couple of forums where I thought I might get some useful answers, but alas, no. Ideally I'm looking for the opinion of someone who has owned / driven both a Rover 75 and the previous (Mk1/2) generation Citroen C5.
I have two Rover 75s at present and the ride is good, no denying that, but I don't think it's worthy of the hype it seems to generate. Just today I read a thread on here which proclaimed the 75 has the best modern ride "this side of a Jaguar XJ". The owners club, again, is full of hype about the 75 having a Rolls-esque ride. As I said it's a good and very comfortable ride for long motorway journeys, but you still feels bumps and even the joins where road surfaces change - certainly to a lesser degree than other cars that I have owned / driven / been in, but either, I'm overestimating the ride in a Rolls Royce, or the 75 just isn't as "magic carpet" as it's made out to be.
I've seen a lot of discussion lately (here) about the hydopneumatic Citroen set up, and I think in a thread here it has also been alleged that the previous generation Citroen C5 was one of the best riding / magic carpet cars ever. I'm wondering if the C5 is actually better than the 75, and whether anyone can confirm? If not I suppose I'll have to buy a cheap one and eBay and test it for myself!
I have two Rover 75s at present and the ride is good, no denying that, but I don't think it's worthy of the hype it seems to generate. Just today I read a thread on here which proclaimed the 75 has the best modern ride "this side of a Jaguar XJ". The owners club, again, is full of hype about the 75 having a Rolls-esque ride. As I said it's a good and very comfortable ride for long motorway journeys, but you still feels bumps and even the joins where road surfaces change - certainly to a lesser degree than other cars that I have owned / driven / been in, but either, I'm overestimating the ride in a Rolls Royce, or the 75 just isn't as "magic carpet" as it's made out to be.
I've seen a lot of discussion lately (here) about the hydopneumatic Citroen set up, and I think in a thread here it has also been alleged that the previous generation Citroen C5 was one of the best riding / magic carpet cars ever. I'm wondering if the C5 is actually better than the 75, and whether anyone can confirm? If not I suppose I'll have to buy a cheap one and eBay and test it for myself!
The ride in my 75s is consistent with others I have been in I wonder if your a bit like me - and have a bum that's VERY fussy about how cars ride over bumps on the road.
I recall that old Renaults were the only thing that I thought were truly smooth - Renault 12s, Renault 25s, Renault Safranes - and even Mk 2 Renault 5s - well those and the W124 Mercs
Peugeot 406s were very nice - but not quite as sofa like as the Renaults.
As it stands my bum can't tell a significant difference between an old Corolla and an LS 430 on air suspension.
Even though in reality there should be
Incidentally - many would regard Volvos as very comfortable cars - but one ride in the back of an 850 has practically turned me off them for life - I was amazed how I could feel bumps in a way I didn't expect to.
I also found that the ride comfort on a C5 really wasn't all that marvellous - it wasn't bad - just not the magic carpet ride you traditionally were led to expect from a Citroen with the hydro suspension.
In saying that I understand the hydro suspension isn't quite the same on C5s as it is on other Citroens - something about less travel or something
Have never been in a Rover 75 though
I recall that old Renaults were the only thing that I thought were truly smooth - Renault 12s, Renault 25s, Renault Safranes - and even Mk 2 Renault 5s - well those and the W124 Mercs
Peugeot 406s were very nice - but not quite as sofa like as the Renaults.
As it stands my bum can't tell a significant difference between an old Corolla and an LS 430 on air suspension.
Even though in reality there should be
Incidentally - many would regard Volvos as very comfortable cars - but one ride in the back of an 850 has practically turned me off them for life - I was amazed how I could feel bumps in a way I didn't expect to.
I also found that the ride comfort on a C5 really wasn't all that marvellous - it wasn't bad - just not the magic carpet ride you traditionally were led to expect from a Citroen with the hydro suspension.
In saying that I understand the hydro suspension isn't quite the same on C5s as it is on other Citroens - something about less travel or something
Have never been in a Rover 75 though
- fussy might be more accuate
Michelin Energy Savers have in my experience a slightly hard underdamped feel. This would make secondary ride events, such as expansion joints, feel a little harsh but performance over impacts such as cats eyes or drain covers ok as the damper is working more.
I've not tried the Goodyears.
A suspension system and tyre are tuned as one item and a change in tyre will have a significant effect on ride performance. I would expect that the OE specification tyre is significantly different to the aftermarket specifications you have fitted. This is why the car is not performing as you expect.
I've not tried the Goodyears.
A suspension system and tyre are tuned as one item and a change in tyre will have a significant effect on ride performance. I would expect that the OE specification tyre is significantly different to the aftermarket specifications you have fitted. This is why the car is not performing as you expect.
John: The thing is I have ridden in plenty of 75s and the ride is consistent throughout. It isn't just mine. I did plenty of research before settling on a tyre choice based around what other owners rated, which is why I went for the Energy Saver + after not being that enamoured with the Goodyears on the other car. I honestly couldn't tell you which tyre was which if I didn't know which car I was in. I can discern no difference between the two. I'm satisfied that both cars are up to scratch. As for running over cats eyes, you can certainly feel them through the seat. They do, however, ride more smoothly than anything I've owned / driven (including: Volvo 940, V70, previous generation Rovers, Jaguar X-Type, Mondeos, Vectras, Xsara Picasso / C4 Picasso etc...).
Perhaps I am too fussy - I don't know! It would be interesting to have a drive of certain cars (Xj / C5 / C6) to compare with.
Perhaps I am too fussy - I don't know! It would be interesting to have a drive of certain cars (Xj / C5 / C6) to compare with.
Ive also found though that B5 Passats and Mk 3 Mondeos have both kept my bum reasonably happy ride quality wise - but not enough to want to run out and buy one.
LS 400 is quite nice too and imo an SE spec E39 5 series is quite nicely judged ride quality wise - generally - but theres always a hint of firmness in the ride - and it can surprise you occasionally with bumps feeding through you weren't expecting
LS 400 is quite nice too and imo an SE spec E39 5 series is quite nicely judged ride quality wise - generally - but theres always a hint of firmness in the ride - and it can surprise you occasionally with bumps feeding through you weren't expecting
A friend of mine has a 75 but was amazed at the ride in the 140k mile LS400 I have which also has the Dynamic Handling Pack (yes really!) with lower profile tyres, 18'' wheels rather than 17'' and stiffer arbs all of which make it worse riding than a standard LS400. For a decent ride size and weight really help. I think the most comfortable car I've ever had was an early Citroen CX if by comfortable you mean not being able to feel anything of the road surface through the seat.
Ride is not something you can research to be able to assess, it needs years of experience. To be fair the majority of journalists cannot qualitatively describe the ride performance of a car and will just use OEM brand image or press releases as pointers to fluff up.
The simple answer is, your car will not ride the same as when it left the factory because it is not on the OE specification tyre.
The simple answer is, your car will not ride the same as when it left the factory because it is not on the OE specification tyre.
John145 said:
Ride is not something you can research to be able to assess, it needs years of experience. To be fair the majority of journalists cannot qualitatively describe the ride performance of a car and will just use OEM brand image or press releases as pointers to fluff up.
The simple answer is, your car will not ride the same as when it left the factory because it is not on the OE specification tyre.
I think the collective opinions of owners of a vehicle which is set up specifically to ride well whom have tried a significant number of different tyres is useful research. I do not buy this explanation at all, sorry.The simple answer is, your car will not ride the same as when it left the factory because it is not on the OE specification tyre.
SebastienClement said:
I think the collective opinions of owners of a vehicle which is set up specifically to ride well whom have tried a significant number of different tyres is useful research. I do not buy this explanation at all, sorry.
So, your research is built up of a number of unconnected people, unknown experience or ability, varying quality vehicles on a subject that requires significant skill and ability to qualitatively assess...I doubt any of your research subjects would be able to identify accurately how a change of tyre pressure or tyre affected their ride. To suggest that 2 cars on different tyres ride the same just proves my point.
John145 said:
Ride is not something you can research to be able to assess, it needs years of experience. To be fair the majority of journalists cannot qualitatively describe the ride performance of a car and will just use OEM brand image or press releases as pointers to fluff up.
The simple answer is, your car will not ride the same as when it left the factory because it is not on the OE specification tyre.
Yes but you can tell what you like in terms of ride comfort.The simple answer is, your car will not ride the same as when it left the factory because it is not on the OE specification tyre.
I used to like the ride of older big Renaults and their ability to make a road with potholes seem like one that was nice and smooth.
Unfortunately not many cars can live up to that.
John145 said:
So, your research is built up of a number of unconnected people, unknown experience or ability, varying quality vehicles on a subject that requires significant skill and ability to qualitatively assess...
I doubt any of your research subjects would be able to identify accurately how a change of tyre pressure or tyre affected their ride. To suggest that 2 cars on different tyres ride the same just proves my point.
My research suggests that a good number of people, with the same specification car, have all settled on one or two brand/model combinations of tyre. Do bear in mind the model of tyre the 75 was originally specified with has not been produced for some years. I doubt any of your research subjects would be able to identify accurately how a change of tyre pressure or tyre affected their ride. To suggest that 2 cars on different tyres ride the same just proves my point.
That, to my mind, is much more conclusive than someone who has never seen my car, assessed the health of the suspension, or ridden in the car telling me it must be my tyres.
As I said, I've travelled in and driven many 75s - none have risen better than my v6.
In other news someone on another forum very kindly offered me the chance to go and drive his (steel sprung) C5. It wasn't a patch on the 75 - but I still really need to find a hydro one to test.
And... If someone can't feel if their tyres are not at the correct pressure, they really should not be driving. A difference of 5psi in my tyres (recently set to full load values) made a much more noticeable difference, than the two different brands of tyre at the same pressure.
Edited by SebastienClement on Monday 1st September 15:30
Unfortunately, no experience of C5, but BXs I had have never been bettered* for ride, not even by my Jag. It was interesting doing a comparison driving familiar roads - humps and bumps I didn't even know were there appeared on steel sprung stuff.
I suspect it (C5) will take some beating by anything steel sprung.
I remember that test TG did filming a horse race from a C6 and 5 series BM - you could see the pictures from the C6.
I suspect it (C5) will take some beating by anything steel sprung.
I remember that test TG did filming a horse race from a C6 and 5 series BM - you could see the pictures from the C6.
- by anything else I've driven - never tried a CX
SebastienClement said:
. I can discern no difference between the two.
U'huh.You describe a ride error that would indicate tyres being mismatched to the dampers. You admit that it is not on oe tyres as they haven't been manufactured for some years. You can't tell the difference between two different tyres. Someone with years of experience is telling you it's the tyres.
It's the tyres.
If I reduce the tyre pressure by 5 psi (0.3 bar), what would change about the ride?
Tbh I'd expect 90% of people not to notice a 5 psi change in their tyre pressure if it was on all tyres but I wouldn't demand their driving licences get revoked. People typically only notice a tyre pressure decrease when it's on one tyre and the car starts I pull.
Tbh I'd expect 90% of people not to notice a 5 psi change in their tyre pressure if it was on all tyres but I wouldn't demand their driving licences get revoked. People typically only notice a tyre pressure decrease when it's on one tyre and the car starts I pull.
I propose the following challenge:
You & your expertise can reccommend me a tyre that will suit the 75. I will buy a set and put them fitted to a set of spare wheels I have. I will have them properly fitted / balanced and have 4 wheel alignment done (due a check anyway). Then we'll see if it's made a difference?
Deal?
You & your expertise can reccommend me a tyre that will suit the 75. I will buy a set and put them fitted to a set of spare wheels I have. I will have them properly fitted / balanced and have 4 wheel alignment done (due a check anyway). Then we'll see if it's made a difference?
Deal?
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