RE: Noble M600 - onward and upward
Discussion
Mezzanine said:
Simply charging an over the top price for something does not make it inherently 'good'. People who have the money to buy such items are generally quite savvy to this by their very nature...
Hmmmm. remember all the "rich and savvy" people who put down deposits on Jaguar XJ220 and then wanted to walk away when Jaguar tried to get them to pay the balance on their cars? Many of these vehicles are simply the Emperor's new clothes."The car received an overwhelmingly positive reception by public and press, and a number of wealthy Jaguar enthusiasts handed over blank cheques to secure a purchase option should the XJ220 concept go into production. Press coverage was overwhelmingly positive and contributed to the decision in 1989 to put the XJ220 into limited production.
"Sales performance was disappointing. Jaguar had intended to produce up to 350 cars, but production ceased in 1994 with 275 production cars produced, not all of which had been sold. Jaguar customers attempting to withdraw from their contracted purchases were given the option to buy themselves out of their contracts."
F1GTRUeno said:
£230k for something that looks like a kitcar.
It's ugly, looks cheap and those wheels are truly horrific and don't suit it whatsoever.
Absolutely rubbish !!! Quite clearly you have never seen one in the flesh !!!!!!!!!!!! It's ugly, looks cheap and those wheels are truly horrific and don't suit it whatsoever.
Apart from the stunning carbon body the interior and build quality is stunning , oh and the sound I'd f
king epic !!!!! Ozzie Osmond said:
Mezzanine said:
Simply charging an over the top price for something does not make it inherently 'good'. People who have the money to buy such items are generally quite savvy to this by their very nature...
Hmmmm. remember all the "rich and savvy" people who put down deposits on Jaguar XJ220 and then wanted to walk away when Jaguar tried to get them to pay the balance on their cars? Many of these vehicles are simply the Emperor's new clothes."The car received an overwhelmingly positive reception by public and press, and a number of wealthy Jaguar enthusiasts handed over blank cheques to secure a purchase option should the XJ220 concept go into production. Press coverage was overwhelmingly positive and contributed to the decision in 1989 to put the XJ220 into limited production.
"Sales performance was disappointing. Jaguar had intended to produce up to 350 cars, but production ceased in 1994 with 275 production cars produced, not all of which had been sold. Jaguar customers attempting to withdraw from their contracted purchases were given the option to buy themselves out of their contracts."
My point was simply something that has an inflated price does not necessarily reflect its 'value'. Only way of determining if the car is a success or not is sales figures.
Mezzanine said:
My point was simply something that has an inflated price does not necessarily reflect its 'value'. Only way of determining if the car is a success or not is sales figures.
I think you are absolutely right about that. Sales success reflects the manufacturer pushing the right buttons with customers.IIRC even the McLaren F1 failed to achieve the level of sales targeted by McLaren, which was a modest 300 cars. My personal view is that the odd central driving position played some part in that. It's notable that McLaren haven't continued with the idea!
Ozzie Osmond said:
Mezzanine said:
My point was simply something that has an inflated price does not necessarily reflect its 'value'. Only way of determining if the car is a success or not is sales figures.
I think you are absolutely right about that. Sales success reflects the manufacturer pushing the right buttons with customers.IIRC even the McLaren F1 failed to achieve the level of sales targeted by McLaren, which was a modest 300 cars. My personal view is that the odd central driving position played some part in that. It's notable that McLaren haven't continued with the idea!
I've posted this before but it bears doing so again.
A kind man was nice enough to take me around bruntingthorpe in an m600.
As somebody who owned a gsrxr1000 and has been in some hot cars I couldn't belive the speed traction and grip this thing had.
I just wasn't prepared. I think we hit 205mph from memory but that wasn't the impressive part. The cornering was just staggering.
Flipping awesome machine.
A kind man was nice enough to take me around bruntingthorpe in an m600.
As somebody who owned a gsrxr1000 and has been in some hot cars I couldn't belive the speed traction and grip this thing had.
I just wasn't prepared. I think we hit 205mph from memory but that wasn't the impressive part. The cornering was just staggering.
Flipping awesome machine.
I think they are a bit awkward looking in photos, but in the skin they make just as much sense as an Enzo or Carrera GT.
In some ways they even look more purposeful and timelessly styled.
I'm not sure on the spindly thin alloy wheels though, vs the ones they originally came with.
I think if they do touch the styling it needs to be more a face-lift to tidy some detail areas up... but the overall form to me looks good
I'm not sure why Noble can't add the TCS/ABS/ESP packages people might want, but have them all switchable.
I also like the fact they're going automated single clutch rather than the usual DSG type boxes. Character is what it's all about in these kinds of cars, and outright performance.
There is no reason why they can't be super smooth and/or aggressive when needed either. It probably just takes more work by the people calibrating the LUT's for the shifting.
Dave
In some ways they even look more purposeful and timelessly styled.
I'm not sure on the spindly thin alloy wheels though, vs the ones they originally came with.
I think if they do touch the styling it needs to be more a face-lift to tidy some detail areas up... but the overall form to me looks good
I'm not sure why Noble can't add the TCS/ABS/ESP packages people might want, but have them all switchable.
I also like the fact they're going automated single clutch rather than the usual DSG type boxes. Character is what it's all about in these kinds of cars, and outright performance.
There is no reason why they can't be super smooth and/or aggressive when needed either. It probably just takes more work by the people calibrating the LUT's for the shifting.
Dave
F1GTRUeno said:
Mr Whippy said:
I'm not sure on the spindly thin alloy wheels though, vs the ones they originally came with.
The original wheels are the worst thing about the M600.For me the originals look like they were designed with the M600 styling in mind so they fit well.
The thin ones just look like off the shelf ones from any old after-market alloy wheel manufacturer which makes the car look a bit cheaper to me.
Mezzanine said:
Developing an ABS system would be far too expensive an investment given the small production figures. Similar reason why TVR never adopted such technology.
Which, let's face it, isn't much of a recommendation. TVR having gone out of business and all that.Anyway, if there's a long queue of people waiting to splash £250,000 on the Noble, that's great. Time will tell. I really hope it works for them.
But lets not forget that lots of jobs will be consulted in from very good engineering companies, likely the same ones who consult for Porsche and Ferrari on their requirements.
So really what matters is the budget and the brief.
The brief is spot on and going on how well the car has reviewed the consultants and engineers involved have hit the brief pretty well!
I'd have one.
But I'd agree that TCS/ABS/ESP could find there way onto this kind of car quite easily these days. All it'd need is someone to do the calibration, and it could all ultimately be turned off for those so inclined.
I'm sure the off the shelf Bosch systems today can be fine tuned to really only intervene when you've already shat your pants and given up on the bravery and just need help... rather than what most road cars get which is to prevent drivers even stting their pants to begin with when things get a bit iffy hehe
Dave
So really what matters is the budget and the brief.
The brief is spot on and going on how well the car has reviewed the consultants and engineers involved have hit the brief pretty well!
I'd have one.
But I'd agree that TCS/ABS/ESP could find there way onto this kind of car quite easily these days. All it'd need is someone to do the calibration, and it could all ultimately be turned off for those so inclined.
I'm sure the off the shelf Bosch systems today can be fine tuned to really only intervene when you've already shat your pants and given up on the bravery and just need help... rather than what most road cars get which is to prevent drivers even s
tting their pants to begin with when things get a bit iffy hehe Dave
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