RE: Turbocharged Zenos E10 detailed

[gianlu]

mrdemon said:

The issue is it's still to expensive for the sum of it's 5k worth of parts.

Base car £30k so most will add 5k it's a £35k car and the Elise S charged cooled car would be a no brainer choice. ESP the deals lotus have on ATM to help you buy one.
It,s a nice try but they should have done more market research on what people want.

Oh, good old mrD
Could you please send me your bank details so I can pay you and you can get me all the parts for 5k? Ta very much. I love you

I'm fairly sure the aim is not the Elise market, not with the E10. This is a track toy, with a possibility for a windscreen and a bit of a roof. It is more aimed at an R300/R400 in terms of market, i believe?

[itiejim]

Blimey, the early articles on this made it look like a really interesting alternative, but that it so ugly as to be un-buyable for me.

[suffolk009]

Kolbenkopp said:

Is that a Morgan in the background?

[MrLizard]

it seems to be a bit of a love/hate sort of car then, i really like the styling but then ive ordered one so i guess i would, from the point of view of rigidity a carbon fibre monocoque bolted to the extrusion offers a lot for the money imo, only my opinion tho

Having driven the the prototype on Saturday it certainly did impress

The S has 357bhp per tonne which does indeed make it pull like a train, certainly felt like a good 0-60 time - something the factory i suspect wont comment on until the car is out of prototype. I dont mind being at the bottom of the list below, be good if it was easy to tune the ST engine too... oh wait...

Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano - [2006]361.9 bhp per tonne
Audi R8 GT 5.2L V10 - [2011]361.9 bhp per tonne
Mercedes SLS AMG GT 6.2 V8 - [2012]359.8 bhp per tonne
Lamborghini Diablo SE 5.7 V12 - [1994]359.3 bhp per tonne
Ford GT 5.4 V8 - [2003]357.6 bhp per tonne
AC Cobra 427 - [1966]357.4 bhp per tonne

[kambites]

I think the question will be more how it compares to things like a Caterham R400 rather than to an Elise.

[sanctum]

Those acceleration and top speed figures must be wrong.
My supercharged elise does very similar numbers, slightly better in fact, with only 190hp and 240Nm. This thing should be lighter and the S should have significantly more torque. Top speed may be limited by gear choice (as in my elise), but I would have expected the S to produce 0-60 in well under 4, there's so many other options for that money that do.

All that said, I love the clever recycled composite body in this thing, so I do wish them luck, and look forward to seeing one in the flesh on a track day soon.

[flyingscot68]

itiejim said:

Blimey, the early articles on this made it look like a really interesting alternative, but that it so ugly as to be un-buyable for me.

Have you actually seen it in the flesh?

[braddo]

I like it and good luck to Zenos. The face could be made a bit more attractive but it's a track day car. Track days are full of ugly track prepped cars.

I like that the concept offers some more crash protection than a Caterham but easier repairs than an Elise (or Atom).

Nice to see a couple of posters who have ordered a car.

[RemarkLima]

Fantuzzi said:

I'm not really sure why they have gone with a transverse layout either in a track car, my guess is its so the platform can be used in there further more 'road friendly' sports cars.

Eh? I'm pretty sure all the other track toy specials are transverse engined, along with the Elise... Only the big cars, Ferrari, Audi R8 are longitudinal (stand to be corrected!) - It keeps things compact and means you can use a FWD drive train, so keeps costs down.

Also spotted in the price list Zenon lights - I think it should be Xenon lights non?

[flyingscot68]

RemarkLima said:

Also spotted in the price list Zenon lights - I think it should be Xenon lights non?

A little play on words there I think, Zenos, Zenon

[RemarkLima]

flyingscot68 said:

RemarkLima said:

Also spotted in the price list Zenon lights - I think it should be Xenon lights non?

A little play on words there I think, Zenos, Zenon

I did wonder that... But seems a bit, erm, hopeful.

[stormcloud123]

Do you need a windscreen, roof you could attach if needed, or heater? If the answer to all of these is no then buy an Ariel Atom, if the answer to all is yes then buy an R300 / R400.

Atom too much sacrifice? Caterham a bit old fashioned? Take the pace down a notch and buy an elise / exige S2.

Cannot see the USP of this Zenos.

[gianlu]

stormcloud123 said:

Do you need a windscreen, roof you could attach if needed, or heater? If the answer to all of these is no then buy an Ariel Atom, if the answer to all is yes then buy an R300 / R400.

Atom too much sacrifice? Caterham a bit old fashioned? Take the pace down a notch and buy an elise / exige S2.

Cannot see the USP of this Zenos.

Well, do you want to go on track on a light car? Do you want easy tuning (reads non expensive) and 240bhp from a standard engine? Do you want the chance to drive to your track with a windscreen, and cover the car if it rains? Do you want some space inside where you can fit luggage for a week end?
If your answer to all of this is yes, then I guess there is not much choice on the market.

Not sure about your experience with this car, I think it is a very personal thing, it is in the end a toy, but I've had a caterham R400 and 4 elises/exiges in various state of tune. I'm keeping my eLige S1, but I'm adding the E10. I loved the seven, but I think this is more "mature". I don't think I'm hardcore enough for an Atom. And I've driven the seven to italy...

I really like the way the team @ Zenos is involving customers


edit: scratch that, I seem to understand you have a Ginetta g40, so I guess you know where I'm coming from...and I guess in your reply I've actually added the g40 as an alternative. Actually a very valid at that! Only difference is Ginetta not offering, afaik, much of a power upgrade.

Edited by gianlu on Tuesday 2nd September 12:23

[soad]

R model will add another 50bhp then?
Assuming there will be one.

[stormcloud123]

gianlu said:

Well, do you want to go on track on a light car? Do you want easy tuning (reads non expensive) and 240bhp from a standard engine? Do you want the chance to drive to your track with a windscreen, and cover the car if it rains? Do you want some space inside where you can fit luggage for a week end?
If your answer to all of this is yes, then I guess there is not much choice on the market.

Not sure about your experience with this car, I think it is a very personal thing, it is in the end a toy, but I've had a caterham R400 and 4 elises/exiges in various state of tune. I'm keeping my eLige S1, but I'm adding the E10. I loved the seven, but I think this is more "mature". I don't think I'm hardcore enough for an Atom. And I've driven the seven to italy...

I really like the way the team @ Zenos is involving customers


edit: scratch that, I seem to understand you have a Ginetta g40, so I guess you know where I'm coming from...and I guess in your reply I've actually added the g40 as an alternative. Actually a very valid at that! Only difference is Ginetta not offering, afaik, much of a power upgrade.

Edited by gianlu on Tuesday 2nd September 12:23

I hear what you are saying, but it seems like a halfway house, kind of like the x-bow. I owned an Atom for 3 years and put nearly 17,000 miles on her. drove in all weather, all distances, with and without windscreen, NA and then the crazy 310 SC, had a blast. The Zenos, x-bow and 2-11 etc etc seem to have all the problems of the Atom but without being as blisteringly fast. You'll still get wet in all these types if it rains and unless the Zenos has some kind of wrap around windscreen (or side windows) you'll still need to where a lid whilst driving on the motorway, also would not want to test crash protection in any of them either.

Saying all that, different is good, and I expect a passenger ride in the Zenos for all this critical feedback.

Note: G40R is my new baby, yes. Looking to have it tuned to 280 NA, whether the factory do the work or an outside tuner will depend on the time of year I need the work carried out as Ginetta are pretty busy with the race series most of the time.

[Fantuzzi]

RemarkLima said:

Fantuzzi said:

I'm not really sure why they have gone with a transverse layout either in a track car, my guess is its so the platform can be used in there further more 'road friendly' sports cars.

Eh? I'm pretty sure all the other track toy specials are transverse engined, along with the Elise... Only the big cars, Ferrari, Audi R8 are longitudinal (stand to be corrected!) - It keeps things compact and means you can use a FWD drive train, so keeps costs down.

Also spotted in the price list Zenon lights - I think it should be Xenon lights non?

You're right a few track cars and sports cars have transverse layouts, xbow and atom (which I have often puzzled about in track cars! I'm guessing the elise has stuck with it for the extra boot space and price reasons primarly). I suppose its a cost thing that out weighs the dynamic advantages, but if you were building it from the ground up as a track day car, wouldn't it be the first choice if space wasn't an option? Radical and BAC both use longitudinal, which made me think Zenos were being smart about using the platform for further models, rather than for cost purposes primarily. But I suppose the cost gearboxes soon adds up on!

It wasn't a dig at transverse engine layouts, my car has one, and my next car (hopefully) will, just thought you would rather have the lower centre of gravity in a pure track car, road cars is another kettle of fish. But as you've said, cost.

[kambites]

A longitudinal engine doesn't necessarily give a lower CoG. The sump should be the limiting factor for engine height in both cases and you'd hope they've got the sump down to floorpan level in this. What it does tend to give is better weight distribution.

[mikeg15]

Have a look at the Van Diemen Multisport to see how to do a transverse installation properly ( except for the crappy gear linkage! )

[Fantuzzi]

kambites said:

A longitudinal engine doesn't necessarily give a lower CoG. The sump should be the limiting factor for engine height in both cases and you'd hope they've got the sump down to floorpan level in this. What it does tend to give is better weight distribution.

Ah crap weight distribution was what I meant to write, don't know why I wrote cog! Suppose I was thinking of centralising weight.

[kambites]

I guess the problem is that a longitudinal i4 adds quite a lot of weight because the wheelbase has to be so much longer.