"Motorists have ruined England"
Discussion
For anyone who can be bothered (obviously not the journalist in question) this offers an interesting view point.
http://horsetalk.co.nz/2012/03/26/from-horse-power...
http://horsetalk.co.nz/2012/03/26/from-horse-power...
cheesesliceking said:
swerni said:
If he's that unfit, the exercise will probably do him some good 
If you cycle for an hour without sweating, you're doing it wong.NinjaPower said:
el stovey said:
NinjaPower said:
Yeah right, I want to spend an hour just getting to a friends house... and then an hour to get home. And as said above, maybe I don't want to arrive sweaty and probably soaked with rain.
The point is, there are other methods for you to get to you friends house, just that you can't be arsed using them.
My only other option, as has been pointed out, is cycling, which frankly I'm not going to do as I don't have the time to spend 2 hours of my evening in just travelling time. That is ridiculous.
The other example is that my parents live exactly 40 miles away, a journey which on a slow day can take about 40-45 minutes if everyone sits at the regulation 60mph, or about 35 minutes if the roads are deserted in the evenings and I open the taps a bit.
I do this journey at least once or twice a week as I work on business projects with my dad.
My only other alternative if I had no car, would be to walk to the train station (20 minutes), get the train which incredibly takes over 1 hour and 15 minutes to do the 40 miles and a few stops, then at the other end I would still be around 5 miles away, meaning I would need a taxi as my parents live in the middle of nowhere and there is no bus route. Overall the 'public transport' route would take me around 1 Hour 45 minutes.
All those hours add up, and all I can think of is 'what a waste of my life'.
The poster above said this is yet again a 'London problem' being thrust upon the rest if the UK, and he is correct.
If he's all about alternative methods, I'd like to see him take a boat to New York instead of flying there.
As for the Telegraph piece. Moving humans around is always going to be a problem in this country, because there are too many of us. The trains are s
t. The bushes are st. And both are ridiculously expensive. The Norwich to London mainline is an absolute embarrassment to this country. Brunel would turn in his grave.There aren't enough roads and those that exist are too narrow and beaten to s
t due to lack of funding. What is a viable alternative to the car? There currently isn't one.
jamieduff1981 said:
Have I stumbled on to Transport2000's angry anti-car forum by mistake?
No, but the topic of the thread was that motorists have ruined England and I was making the point that, for cyclists and cycling, this is true.The growth in traffic volumes, increased speeding, aggressive, selfish driving behaviour generally, and more agression and intolerance shown towards cyclists in particular, in conjunction with the virtual disappearance of law enforcement from the roads, have made cycling significantly more dangerous and unpleasant in the UK in general during my 35-odd years of cycling in this country.
And yes, I am interested in cars, own two, was into cars before I was into bikes, and am a law-abiding cyclist who doesn't ride around in black clothing. I'm just getting increasingly brassed off with the ignorant, selfish, aggressive behaviour of my fellow drivers, whether I am driving or cycling.
Perhaps the title of the thread should read 'English people have ruined England'.
0000 said:
transportdirect.info said:
Journey(s) found for Aston Somerville, Worcestershire to Cheltenham General Hospital
Sorry we are unable to obtain public transport options for your journey.
...
Option Transport Changes Leave Arrive Duration
1 Car 0 08:00 08:33 33 mins / 15.9miles
I don't even live in Aston Somerville, but near it. Just 15.9 miles away to a major town and it can't find a public transport option leaving near 8am on a weekday. I tried 10am too in case bus drivers get a lie in. Previously it's given me ~4 hour estimates but maybe a bus route's closed since then.Sorry we are unable to obtain public transport options for your journey.
...
Option Transport Changes Leave Arrive Duration
1 Car 0 08:00 08:33 33 mins / 15.9miles
I don't think public transport is viable when you need to commute for the geographical majority. Do I believe his road charging scheme would be cheap? No chance. Even if they tried to make it free they'd need to cover setup, installation and administration costs and they'd be extortionate.
transportdirect.info said:
Journey(s) found for PE10 XXX to PE1 XXX
Outward journeys for Wed 03 Sep 14 leaving after 07:20
Option Transport Changes Leave Arrive Duration Select
1 Bus, Walk 1 07:28 08:59 1 hour 31 mins This journey is selected
2 Bus, Walk 1 07:48 09:19 1 hour 31 mins Click to select this journey
3 Bus, Walk 1 08:18 09:54 1 hour 36 mins Click to select this journey
4 Bus, Walk 1 08:48 10:19 1 hour 31 mins Click to select this journey
5 Car 0 07:20 07:57 37 mins / 17.3miles Click to select this journey
The car time is not accurate, I leave at 7.20 and regularly get to work for 7.45/7.50.Outward journeys for Wed 03 Sep 14 leaving after 07:20
Option Transport Changes Leave Arrive Duration Select
1 Bus, Walk 1 07:28 08:59 1 hour 31 mins This journey is selected
2 Bus, Walk 1 07:48 09:19 1 hour 31 mins Click to select this journey
3 Bus, Walk 1 08:18 09:54 1 hour 36 mins Click to select this journey
4 Bus, Walk 1 08:48 10:19 1 hour 31 mins Click to select this journey
5 Car 0 07:20 07:57 37 mins / 17.3miles Click to select this journey
So to arrive at the sametime on public transport I'd need to leave at 06.08... Practical.
BGarside said:
No, but the topic of the thread was that motorists have ruined England and I was making the point that, for cyclists and cycling, this is true.
The growth in traffic volumes, increased speeding, aggressive, selfish driving behaviour generally, and more agression and intolerance shown towards cyclists in particular, in conjunction with the virtual disappearance of law enforcement from the roads, have made cycling significantly more dangerous and unpleasant in the UK in general during my 35-odd years of cycling in this country.
And yes, I am interested in cars, own two, was into cars before I was into bikes, and am a law-abiding cyclist who doesn't ride around in black clothing. I'm just getting increasingly brassed off with the ignorant, selfish, aggressive behaviour of my fellow drivers, whether I am driving or cycling.
Perhaps the title of the thread should read 'English people have ruined England'.
You're determined to make this thread about cycling aren't you?The growth in traffic volumes, increased speeding, aggressive, selfish driving behaviour generally, and more agression and intolerance shown towards cyclists in particular, in conjunction with the virtual disappearance of law enforcement from the roads, have made cycling significantly more dangerous and unpleasant in the UK in general during my 35-odd years of cycling in this country.
And yes, I am interested in cars, own two, was into cars before I was into bikes, and am a law-abiding cyclist who doesn't ride around in black clothing. I'm just getting increasingly brassed off with the ignorant, selfish, aggressive behaviour of my fellow drivers, whether I am driving or cycling.
Perhaps the title of the thread should read 'English people have ruined England'.
10/10 for effort!
otolith said:
Can we not just ban cars from London so they can stop trying to impose solutions for their local problem on the rest of the country?
Quote the truth.Can't wait to see the queen on a Boris bike because of some second rate writer-turned-self confessed dicator wants no cars in LDN.
Megaflow said:
The car time is not accurate, I leave at 7.20 and regularly get to work for 7.45/7.50.
So to arrive at the sametime on public transport I'd need to leave at 06.08... Practical.
Transport Direct always makes the car journey times pessimistic. They _really_ want you to take public transport. So to arrive at the sametime on public transport I'd need to leave at 06.08... Practical.
My 50-55 minute drive to work would necessitate leaving for work before I got home the night before if I used public transport according to their site. Heaven knows how much it would cost.
It's not about the transport infrastructure it's about our attitude to work.
There are few reasons that the majority of office workers need to be in an office 9-5. Flexible hours would be a start for the majority so that the transport network is not concentrated into a few hours in the morning.
Then home working, the technology exists for a large number of office workers to stay home. They don't need to be in the office all day talking to no-one but clients (in a remote location) or email or spreadsheets. Meeting can be held by telephone or even video conference.
It's not for everyone admittedly but it would certainly help the situation if those who could worked from home for the majority of the time.
Has anyone seen how quiet the roads have been the last few weeks? That's just the kids off on holiday (a quick google found an 11% drop in the Exeter area in 2004).
Something road charging based on usage at peak times fails to consider is that few people choose to travel at peak if they have an alternative.
There are few reasons that the majority of office workers need to be in an office 9-5. Flexible hours would be a start for the majority so that the transport network is not concentrated into a few hours in the morning.
Then home working, the technology exists for a large number of office workers to stay home. They don't need to be in the office all day talking to no-one but clients (in a remote location) or email or spreadsheets. Meeting can be held by telephone or even video conference.
It's not for everyone admittedly but it would certainly help the situation if those who could worked from home for the majority of the time.
Has anyone seen how quiet the roads have been the last few weeks? That's just the kids off on holiday (a quick google found an 11% drop in the Exeter area in 2004).
Something road charging based on usage at peak times fails to consider is that few people choose to travel at peak if they have an alternative.
I agree with the article to a point. I like toll roads.
But, if we are to have toll roads, then the government better fk off. I see little to no sense in being taxed to high heavens and then forced to pay a fortune for the very services that the tax is supposed to provide.
The author, if he were a dictator, would provide free champagne barges on the Thames. I, on the other hand, would immediately burn Westminster to the ground, make taxes a thing of the past and drown all chavs in the Channel (on the French side).
Vote for Looket!
But, if we are to have toll roads, then the government better f
k off. I see little to no sense in being taxed to high heavens and then forced to pay a fortune for the very services that the tax is supposed to provide.The author, if he were a dictator, would provide free champagne barges on the Thames. I, on the other hand, would immediately burn Westminster to the ground, make taxes a thing of the past and drown all chavs in the Channel (on the French side).
Vote for Looket!
Like so many of the anti car brigade. they are good at focusing on the negative aspects of car ownership and use, but seem to be able to diminish the plus side of private car use, to being little more than a `convenience'
For a huge number of people, having a car can be the difference between having a job and not having one. It can mean the difference between seeing family members at regular intervals or not seeing them for extended periods. Cars can mean the difference between disabled people being mobile or house bound.
cars can be the difference between getting getting a person / sick child to A&E quickly (or as happened to me, getting a pregnant woman to a hospital in minutes when her baby developed problems, which could have meant the babies death, if she had had to wait for the ambulance.
Its easy, especially for ignorant city types, to criticize cars, and car use, but for those in the real / outside world they are a vital and necessary element of modern life in what we assume is a civilized country.
The UK is no longer back in the 1930`s where hardly anyone travelled more than a few miles from where they were born, and almost everyone who did travel had to get about by public transport,
(which if they did now, would simply not cope with the UK`s`current population) they should realize this, and stop writing this utter, utter nonsense.
For a huge number of people, having a car can be the difference between having a job and not having one. It can mean the difference between seeing family members at regular intervals or not seeing them for extended periods. Cars can mean the difference between disabled people being mobile or house bound.
cars can be the difference between getting getting a person / sick child to A&E quickly (or as happened to me, getting a pregnant woman to a hospital in minutes when her baby developed problems, which could have meant the babies death, if she had had to wait for the ambulance.
Its easy, especially for ignorant city types, to criticize cars, and car use, but for those in the real / outside world they are a vital and necessary element of modern life in what we assume is a civilized country.
The UK is no longer back in the 1930`s where hardly anyone travelled more than a few miles from where they were born, and almost everyone who did travel had to get about by public transport,
(which if they did now, would simply not cope with the UK`s`current population) they should realize this, and stop writing this utter, utter nonsense.
What is this 'war on the motorist' that I hear about on piston heads and in the Daily Mail? Is it happening in another space/time continuum?
My road tax, fuel and insurance costs me less than it has ever done. I can't remember the last time that I was given a parking or speeding fine, I've never paid congestion charge and I never have a problem parking. And yes, I have a completely normal, conventional car.
I get the distinct impression that a lot this whinging is self inflicted.
My road tax, fuel and insurance costs me less than it has ever done. I can't remember the last time that I was given a parking or speeding fine, I've never paid congestion charge and I never have a problem parking. And yes, I have a completely normal, conventional car.
I get the distinct impression that a lot this whinging is self inflicted.
- starts reading article
- realizes it's some lentil botherer in London wittering on about how we don't need cars
- stops because I live in the NW and this twit apparently has no idea that not everybody can just "hop on a taxi" at one end and "walk straight off at the other"
Edited by Horse Pop on Tuesday 2nd September 13:44
UK generally isn't a good place for cycling to work and driving is fairly useless also, better to just leave and go somewhere else.
Unless someone spends billions on decent infrastructure it will never, ever change, so better get used to it.
Unless someone spends billions on decent infrastructure it will never, ever change, so better get used to it.
Edited by andysgriff on Tuesday 2nd September 13:39
Surely the point is that the situation at the moment is that roads are so hostile that many people outside the preserve of a brave and confident minority have effectively had their transport choice decided for them. Many people would like to cycle, but the road network is unsuitable.
More than 50% of car journeys are less than 5 miles: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa... and https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
That's ridiculous, but until there is decent infrastructure, many people are effectively forced to use cars.
I think there needs to be a carrot there before we start wielding the stick though. I am confident that if the investment was put into quality cycling infrastructure, lots of people would use it - there's nothing unique about Dutch people - and that would make the roads less congested and more pleasant for everyone - even people who will never cycle.
More than 50% of car journeys are less than 5 miles: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa... and https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
That's ridiculous, but until there is decent infrastructure, many people are effectively forced to use cars.
I think there needs to be a carrot there before we start wielding the stick though. I am confident that if the investment was put into quality cycling infrastructure, lots of people would use it - there's nothing unique about Dutch people - and that would make the roads less congested and more pleasant for everyone - even people who will never cycle.
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