Family allow use of fatal crash video for safety campaign.
Discussion
I'd be interested to know what the biker would have been charged and convicted with if he had caused the death of the car driver in this accident, unlikely as that would be.
Also, I'm surprised there hasn't been a call by Brake etc. for a speed camera to be located in the vicinity of this junction.
Also, I'm surprised there hasn't been a call by Brake etc. for a speed camera to be located in the vicinity of this junction.
My take on this is:
Had the biker being doing 60, imo he should have been backing off a little on the approach to that hazard, and let's face it, it's a big hazard.
Instead he's pulling hard, very hard.
Slowing slightly from 60, covering the brake in case of emergency, would this crash have even happened?
I'm not into any 'bikers v drivers' debate, I like bikers...although I worry for their safety, the way a lot ride. All road users are trying their utmost to see and anticipate others' actions to avoid crashing, something coming at you like an Exocet missile, most would struggle imo.
Case in point.
Not saying anymore, it's pointless, if bikeys think that kind of riding is acceptable then face facts.
Had the biker being doing 60, imo he should have been backing off a little on the approach to that hazard, and let's face it, it's a big hazard.
Instead he's pulling hard, very hard.
Slowing slightly from 60, covering the brake in case of emergency, would this crash have even happened?
I'm not into any 'bikers v drivers' debate, I like bikers...although I worry for their safety, the way a lot ride. All road users are trying their utmost to see and anticipate others' actions to avoid crashing, something coming at you like an Exocet missile, most would struggle imo.
Case in point.
Not saying anymore, it's pointless, if bikeys think that kind of riding is acceptable then face facts.
Mastodon2 said:
A tough watch for any motorcyclist, and hopefully grim viewing that would make the myopic, disinterested drivers of the UK actually use things like observation, anticipation and judgement. Sadly, I doubt this video, or any of the others, make much of a difference, as few drivers like to admit their shortcomings or accept that they could improve their driving - the fact is that most drivers think they are up to scratch and wouldn't take 3 minutes to watch this.
And to hopefully influence bikers to not do 90mph on a busy A road.thiscocks said:
Mastodon2 said:
A tough watch for any motorcyclist, and hopefully grim viewing that would make the myopic, disinterested drivers of the UK actually use things like observation, anticipation and judgement. Sadly, I doubt this video, or any of the others, make much of a difference, as few drivers like to admit their shortcomings or accept that they could improve their driving - the fact is that most drivers think they are up to scratch and wouldn't take 3 minutes to watch this.
And to hopefully influence bikers to not do 90mph on a busy A road.Here a biker is using an exhibition of riding that would on any other day be worthy of a ban, to have a pop at car drivers...
Even the riders' mother said the point of the video was to make drivers and bikers think.
Priceless.
boobles said:
Somebody in an early post made a good comment about the timing of it all.
Had the rider been doing 60 (the speed limit) the guy in the car would have been & gone by the time the rider got to that junction. Had the rider been going faster, he would have been past the driver in the car, hence this accident may never happened! Wrong place wrong time & all that......
Quite simply it was a case of someone going to fast on a road, and someone not looking properly when pulling across the road. An unfortunate case of error by both parties - one person lost their life, the other now having to live with that fact.Had the rider been doing 60 (the speed limit) the guy in the car would have been & gone by the time the rider got to that junction. Had the rider been going faster, he would have been past the driver in the car, hence this accident may never happened! Wrong place wrong time & all that......
Had the rider been doing the speed limit they would not of over taken the car doing the speed limit - they would not have then ended up having the resulting crash. Had the driver taken the time to look rather than just swing across then they would have ended up not having the resulting crash.
Later that day the rider would of been killed by a crashing Air Malaysia plane piloted by the driver who pulled across his path. We've all seen Final Destination, we all know what happens.
Edited by MattStorey on Friday 12th September 16:17
I would suggest that it is not about "the speed limit", but about riding to the conditions. If the speed limit was reduced to 10mph, would 11mph be automatically dangerous? Even at the speed limit of 60mph, t-boning a badly-driven car isn't going to be good.
100mph, a mile, say, further back down the road, away from junctions and traffic would probably be a non-event.
As has been posted many times on this thread, by sensible people, both people contributed. The bike's speed may have been high and unwise at the location/time , with few escape (braking/evasion) options , but driving across oncoming traffic is a terrible thing to have done.
I get the impression from non-enthusiasts, in the real world, that this video confirms the bad things they thought about bikers rather than the bad things about car drivers.... If the view was from the car I wonder if opinion would be different?
100mph, a mile, say, further back down the road, away from junctions and traffic would probably be a non-event.
As has been posted many times on this thread, by sensible people, both people contributed. The bike's speed may have been high and unwise at the location/time , with few escape (braking/evasion) options , but driving across oncoming traffic is a terrible thing to have done.
I get the impression from non-enthusiasts, in the real world, that this video confirms the bad things they thought about bikers rather than the bad things about car drivers.... If the view was from the car I wonder if opinion would be different?
Driller said:
^^Indeed.
Interesting to see how the discussion has developed.
I wonder how many of those who are saying that the blame lies squarely with the biker are bikers themselves and have had people in cars pulling out in front of them even when they were riding at much slower speeds and within the limit causing them to have to slam the brakes on to avoid an accident and getting hurt?
How many times have I had to make emergency manoeuvres to avoid other road users over the years?Interesting to see how the discussion has developed.
I wonder how many of those who are saying that the blame lies squarely with the biker are bikers themselves and have had people in cars pulling out in front of them even when they were riding at much slower speeds and within the limit causing them to have to slam the brakes on to avoid an accident and getting hurt?
It happens to everyone all the time.
Bikers are more exposed, and thus usually they take extra precautions. In this case the rider didn't.
MC Bodge said:
I would suggest that it is not about "the speed limit", but about riding to the conditions. If the speed limit was reduced to 10mph, would 11mph be automatically dangerous? Even at the speed limit of 60mph, t-boning a badly-driven car isn't going to be good.
100mph, a mile, say, further back down the road, away from junctions and traffic would probably be a non-event.
As has been posted many times on this thread, by sensible people, both people contributed. The bike's speed may have been high and unwise at the location/time , with few escape (braking/evasion) options , but driving across oncoming traffic is a terrible thing to have done.
I get the impression from non-enthusiasts, in the real world, that this video confirms the bad things they thought about bikers rather than the bad things about car drivers.... If the view was from the car I wonder if opinion would be different?
Pretty much agree Bodge but at that speed on the approach to that situation, I s100mph, a mile, say, further back down the road, away from junctions and traffic would probably be a non-event.
As has been posted many times on this thread, by sensible people, both people contributed. The bike's speed may have been high and unwise at the location/time , with few escape (braking/evasion) options , but driving across oncoming traffic is a terrible thing to have done.
I get the impression from non-enthusiasts, in the real world, that this video confirms the bad things they thought about bikers rather than the bad things about car drivers.... If the view was from the car I wonder if opinion would be different?
t myself before the crash even happened when I saw what the rider was about to do.Fair enough opening the taps when the conditions allow but imo that wasn't the place to do so.
Sad case of taking unnecessary risk imo.
MattStorey said:
We've all seen Final Destination, we all know what happens.
The irony is, you never know what will happen.You think, had I just done X Y or Z, I'd not have been in that accident. But you could have been wiped out a few minutes later in a worse one.
If you survive at all, that is the thing to take comfort from. For those that don't, well that is sad but we all have to go at some stage... and if you don't accept that and live recklessly then really that is your own problem I suppose.
Dave
25NAD90TUL said:
So, the bike is going at approximately double the limit, 'too' fast iyo.
And the only piece of dangerous driving was the cars'.
OK.
You are setting up a straw man argument.And the only piece of dangerous driving was the cars'.
OK.
The bike was going at approx 1.5 x the limit. But the car driver pulled across him when he was 1.0 second away! Had the bike been driving at 60mph, the legal limit, he would still have been under 2 seconds away. So, in my opinion, and in the opinion of the car driver himself, and the judge, the car driver caused the collision. And so my sympathies are much more on the side of the biker, even though he was not riding at a safe speed for that piece of road.
I'm a car driver, not a biker, btw.
Edited by James McScotty on Monday 15th September 18:47
James McScotty said:
25NAD90TUL said:
So, the bike is going at approximately double the limit, 'too' fast iyo.
And the only piece of dangerous driving was the cars'.
OK.
You are setting up a straw man argument.And the only piece of dangerous driving was the cars'.
OK.
The bike was going at approx 1.5 x the limit. But the car driver pulled across him when he was 1.0 second away! Had the bike been driving at 60mph, the legal limit, he would still have been under 2 seconds away. So, in my opinion, and in the opinion of the car driver himself, and the judge, the car driver caused the collision. And so my sympathies are much more on the side of the biker, even though he was not riding at a safe speed for that piece of road.
I'm a car driver, not a biker, btw.
Edited by James McScotty on Monday 15th September 18:47
It's bad observation on those that succumb to these high speed drivers that are the danger?
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
James McScotty said:
25NAD90TUL said:
So, the bike is going at approximately double the limit, 'too' fast iyo.
And the only piece of dangerous driving was the cars'.
OK.
You are setting up a straw man argument.And the only piece of dangerous driving was the cars'.
OK.
The bike was going at approx 1.5 x the limit. But the car driver pulled across him when he was 1.0 second away! Had the bike been driving at 60mph, the legal limit, he would still have been under 2 seconds away. So, in my opinion, and in the opinion of the car driver himself, and the judge, the car driver caused the collision. And so my sympathies are much more on the side of the biker, even though he was not riding at a safe speed for that piece of road.
I'm a car driver, not a biker, btw.
Edited by James McScotty on Monday 15th September 18:47
It's bad observation on those that succumb to these high speed drivers that are the danger?
Dave
Dr Jekyll said:
Why do so many people fail to accept that BOTH parties were to blame. Suggesting that the driver should have looked more carefully is NOT the same as saying the biker was entitled to go through a junction at 100MPH.
because a surprising number of people see things as absolutes. Everything is black or white, often aligned with their prejudices.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff