Family allow use of fatal crash video for safety campaign.
Discussion
otolith said:
Most accidents are multifactorial. Often either of the people involved could have prevented it if they had been a better driver/rider - even where the fault is entirely that of the other party.
Agree. Whilst tragically a life had been lost here, had his speed been within the limit his chances of survival significantly higher IMO.Wow that was harrowing footage, certainly showed how quickly things can happen. His speed was crazy fast approaching the junction but surely the car should have seen him just before and abandoned the turn earlier on.
Anyway the poor guy RIP, he sounded like a decent guy but ultimately paid the price for his part of the events that day.
Anyway the poor guy RIP, he sounded like a decent guy but ultimately paid the price for his part of the events that day.
Brave move by the mother, especially knowing how wrong things can go when you've given creative control of your footage to someone else.
Hell, even here I'm slipping up - talking about the victim. Clearly the biker comes off worse, but unless you're a sociopath, you don't sit around twiddling your thumbs waiting for an insurance cheque after something like that. You don't "win" in a collision regardless of the vehicle you're in/on.
It might seem like false balance to some to take things from the other side, but something like 10ps's account makes me think more about what I'd do as a driver, simply because I'm seeing things from a driver's point of view, and the way my life as a driver would suck - rather than the biker's point of view, from which I simply can't empathise with the motorist very well.
wemorgan said:
I think some people are missing the major point. Everyone can learn from the video. Not just bikers, but drivers too and those not speeding. Appropriate speed and observation skills need refreshing from time to time.
That's the thing, if I may be so bold... I can see the intended effect, but if I'm seeing something through the victim's eyes, my natural inclination is to think about what I would have done differently. That though process isn't victim blaming - but the end result IS markedly similar.Hell, even here I'm slipping up - talking about the victim. Clearly the biker comes off worse, but unless you're a sociopath, you don't sit around twiddling your thumbs waiting for an insurance cheque after something like that. You don't "win" in a collision regardless of the vehicle you're in/on.
It might seem like false balance to some to take things from the other side, but something like 10ps's account makes me think more about what I'd do as a driver, simply because I'm seeing things from a driver's point of view, and the way my life as a driver would suck - rather than the biker's point of view, from which I simply can't empathise with the motorist very well.
RIP. Yes, he was riding too quick towards a junction, but I'm more annoyed at the car driver. The amount of people pulling out in front of me at junctions and continuing on at a stupidly slow pace seems to increase day by day.
More focus required on driving skills and observation and less focus on speed as a single factor in road safety.
More focus required on driving skills and observation and less focus on speed as a single factor in road safety.
We can all comment of what 'should' have happened to avoid the rta and argue about who was in the wrong till the cows come home.
Thats not going to change the outcome of what was a nasty accident.
One bloke is dead and another has to carry that accident on his conscience for the rest of his life. Not a good situation for anyone.
Thats not going to change the outcome of what was a nasty accident.
One bloke is dead and another has to carry that accident on his conscience for the rest of his life. Not a good situation for anyone.
Edited by Studio117 on Thursday 4th September 21:56
It seemed fast, but not almost 100 mph fast.
I got overtaken the other day by a bike, I was going quickly and he overtook me like I was stood still, this was a bend on a dual carriageway, I was quite surprised how fast he was going, the poor guy in this video was making progress but didnt seem to be going mental, just seems sports bikes are so apocalyiptically fast almost a ton is no big deal.
I feel for the car driver, a moments doziness and they have someone's death on their hands, a small, fast moving vehicle, not making excuses but that is at the outside of what drivers can cope with, speed limit plus fifty percent, its outside of the frame of reference most drive by.
I got overtaken the other day by a bike, I was going quickly and he overtook me like I was stood still, this was a bend on a dual carriageway, I was quite surprised how fast he was going, the poor guy in this video was making progress but didnt seem to be going mental, just seems sports bikes are so apocalyiptically fast almost a ton is no big deal.
I feel for the car driver, a moments doziness and they have someone's death on their hands, a small, fast moving vehicle, not making excuses but that is at the outside of what drivers can cope with, speed limit plus fifty percent, its outside of the frame of reference most drive by.
So, let's share best practice as riders and drivers. What would you do practically, to avoid this?
As a rider, no overtakes near junctions of any sort. Obviously don't speed but i often actively slow down in addition when approaching these things. I'd also add, keep your bubble big, consider repositioning in lane to buy some inches, gently sway front of bike if safe to highlight presence and look for eye contact/wheel direction change.
I've oversimplified my thoughts hugely but hopefully some other riders here will understand them. All the above is based on personal judgement of safety to do so and this of course varies hugely.
As a rider, no overtakes near junctions of any sort. Obviously don't speed but i often actively slow down in addition when approaching these things. I'd also add, keep your bubble big, consider repositioning in lane to buy some inches, gently sway front of bike if safe to highlight presence and look for eye contact/wheel direction change.
I've oversimplified my thoughts hugely but hopefully some other riders here will understand them. All the above is based on personal judgement of safety to do so and this of course varies hugely.
I like the gentle weaving idea.
I often (seriously) wonder if jumping up off the bike just before the moment of impact might help save your life instead of being rag dolled/somersaulted by the bottom half of you being rapidly slowed by the impact whilst the rest of you continues forwards.
I often (seriously) wonder if jumping up off the bike just before the moment of impact might help save your life instead of being rag dolled/somersaulted by the bottom half of you being rapidly slowed by the impact whilst the rest of you continues forwards.
Driller said:
Feel very sorry for the biker and it was definitely the fault of the numpty driver. As a biker though, I have to say he was foolish to be going so fast through a big junction like that.
A morbid part of me wants to know at what point he was killed. It would seem on impact.
Sorry but the biker had a part to play in the accident, he was going way faster than the speed limit, what speed do other road users have to allow for, another 20, 30, 40 or 100 mph ?A morbid part of me wants to know at what point he was killed. It would seem on impact.
If within the posted speed limit he could have anticipated the car pulling out and brakes or swerved, the car driver may have seen him and not pulled out, if at 50-60 if he had still hit the car he may have been injured instead of killed.
I believe that the further you stray above the speed limit, the more you are on your own, you take more responsibility for what happens.
Driller said:
If a driver of any vehicle is incapable of judging the speed of an oncoming vehicle whether it's 1mph or light speed, he shouldn't driving IMO.
Actually, that's a gap in our driving test that could be addressed, and would be easy to assess on a computer application as part of the theory test. hornetrider said:
Matt100HP said:
Even knowing what you're about to see, that is very hard to watch. There's something about hearing his last ever word which makes it infinitely worse...
RIP.
Agreed, that is horrendous. Certainly makes you think. RIP.
Driller said:
If a driver of any vehicle is incapable of judging the speed of an oncoming vehicle whether it's 1mph or light speed, he shouldn't driving IMO.
As I said though, for his his own safety the biker was foolish to be so fast through that junction.
The faster an object is travelling the less time people have to react to it, they aren't expecting vehicles travelling 50 percent faster than the speed limit, it is not in the normal range, bikes are smaller as well, it isn't an excuse, I think the driver is partially responsible but nobody can be expected to judge objects approaching at "the speed of light".As I said though, for his his own safety the biker was foolish to be so fast through that junction.
The roads are full of clueless d
heads that cause problems for you at slow speeds, bikers tell car drivers regularly how bad they are and how vulnerable they are, then forget about all that when enjoying how fast 180 bhp in 200 kilos or less is, I can see how tempting it is, how easy it is and how dangerous it can be, I ride a push bike and fully realise you can be fully, or partially in the right, but can still be dead.I did some advanced driver training at work and one of the things the instructor said will always remind when driving over a 'slow' painted on the road. Whether true or not, it makes me think, and it makes me slow down.
He said "It costs the council £300 (forget the actual number but it was expensive) to paint "slow" on the road, so they've done it for a reason. In Wales they write it there twice, and spend twice the money: Slow and Araf."
Great idea to use the footage, but I can't place fault on just one side I'm afraid.
He said "It costs the council £300 (forget the actual number but it was expensive) to paint "slow" on the road, so they've done it for a reason. In Wales they write it there twice, and spend twice the money: Slow and Araf."
Great idea to use the footage, but I can't place fault on just one side I'm afraid.
VinceFox said:
So, let's share best practice as riders and drivers. What would you do practically, to avoid this?
As a rider, no overtakes near junctions of any sort. Obviously don't speed but i often actively slow down in addition when approaching these things. I'd also add, keep your bubble big, consider repositioning in lane to buy some inches, gently sway front of bike if safe to highlight presence and look for eye contact/wheel direction change.
I've oversimplified my thoughts hugely but hopefully some other riders here will understand them. All the above is based on personal judgement of safety to do so and this of course varies hugely.
I always cover the brake and back off around junctions like that...always, especially if there are cars around. As a rider, no overtakes near junctions of any sort. Obviously don't speed but i often actively slow down in addition when approaching these things. I'd also add, keep your bubble big, consider repositioning in lane to buy some inches, gently sway front of bike if safe to highlight presence and look for eye contact/wheel direction change.
I've oversimplified my thoughts hugely but hopefully some other riders here will understand them. All the above is based on personal judgement of safety to do so and this of course varies hugely.
My rule is: Be surprised if they HAVE seen you, not if they haven't.
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