Road fund licence back door tax scam

Road fund licence back door tax scam

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Discussion

Pesty

42,655 posts

255 months

Saturday 6th September 2014
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Butter Face said:
You no longer need to produce insurance to tax a car.

You will be able to tax online/over the phone. You buy car, call, buy tax, drive car.

Simple.
Awesome thanks.

Been an aweful lot fo misinformation about this.

andy-xr

13,204 posts

203 months

Saturday 6th September 2014
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It looks like we're back to calling it Car Tax now, reminder just arrived and there's no mention of VED

Dammit

3,790 posts

207 months

Saturday 6th September 2014
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Edited whilst I find a citation

Edited by Dammit on Saturday 6th September 13:06

With these feet

5,728 posts

214 months

Saturday 6th September 2014
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https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...


Have a quick read of some of these transcripts, they obviously have been given set phrases to use...

They recon they will not make any money from this change - rubbish, very few people IME request a refund of tax when selling privately, indeed its always been a fairly essential selling point of having long MOT and tax.
Its now a forced refund of full remaining months and will overlap with the new buyer.

Lots of dealers angry as they are losing out on the tax they have paid for in their stock vehicles as well, as from the 1st Oct they are all worth bugger-all!

Also if you forget to cancel your DD they dont and will happily keep taking cash even of you dont have the car.
Add to that the potential £1000 fines....

Butter Face

30,191 posts

159 months

Saturday 6th September 2014
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With these feet said:


Lots of dealers angry as they are losing out on the tax they have paid for in their stock vehicles as well, as from the 1st Oct they are all worth bugger-all!
I'd imagine it's very, very rare for dealers to have stock taxed. We tax vehicles that need to be driven and nothing else. It's just money being spent otherwise.

This system really won't change anything for people who buy/sell at dealerships anyway. Most main dealers (that I know of) give the customer their tax back when they trade in and charge for tax on the new car.

Also don't get many people saying 'I'll pick the car up on the first of next month' anymore to get a 'full months tax' as if they don't get their old tax by the first, they don't get a 'full' month back either.

barker22

1,037 posts

166 months

Saturday 6th September 2014
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Butter Face said:
Also don't get many people saying 'I'll pick the car up on the first of next month' anymore to get a 'full months tax' as if they don't get their old tax by the first, they don't get a 'full' month back either.
I believe you will get a LOT more people saying this from oct 1st. Well certainly the people that are in a position to be without a car for a short while.
If i can help it I would be trying to buy a car at the very beginning of the month or picking it up on the 1st. As small as the charge may be why shouldn't I get maximum use out of the tax given that I am likely to lose a month when it comes to sell. It all adds up.

Butter Face

30,191 posts

159 months

Saturday 6th September 2014
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barker22 said:
Butter Face said:
Also don't get many people saying 'I'll pick the car up on the first of next month' anymore to get a 'full months tax' as if they don't get their old tax by the first, they don't get a 'full' month back either.
I believe you will get a LOT more people saying this from oct 1st. Well certainly the people that are in a position to be without a car for a short while.
If i can help it I would be trying to buy a car at the very beginning of the month or picking it up on the 1st. As small as the charge may be why shouldn't I get maximum use out of the tax given that I am likely to lose a month when it comes to sell. It all adds up.
But you understand that waiting for the 1st to start the tax on your new car means you lose a month on your old one anyway?



Old tax runs til end of november, you collect new car on the 1st of october.

You cancel old tax on the 1st (you can't on the 31st as you are not taxed for a day driving to collect the new car and ANPR will autoissue you a fine) and as per the rules you lose octobers tax on the old car.

So you may as well collect the new car on the 28th september, you will 'lose' septembers tax but 'gain' octobers on the old car.....

T0nup

683 posts

199 months

Monday 8th September 2014
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Wife runs a sub post office, and she is amazed at how many people think:

a) That because you do not need to produce proof of insurance, you do not need it in order to tax a car.

b) That as soon as you put the phone down to the insurance broker/company, you are insured. This is so, but the MID will not show this until updated.

c) That because from 1st Oct you will not be issued a tax disk, you do not need to tax your car. Afterall, who's gonna know? Has been one comment.

d) That you have to tax your car on-line or by phone. Old peeps are especially relieved when she tells them they can still do it at the PO.

Sheepshanks

32,517 posts

118 months

Monday 8th September 2014
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paranoid airbag said:
So, they expect to gain on average 1/24, or 4% (possibly less if people adapt to this change, possibly more if there's a natural tendency to sell early in the month), of VED on the cars that are sold.
It being a Government agency, it probably costs them more to process a refund than the value of the tax they're refunding.

Eventually they'll figure this out and there will a fee to tax the car, plus the tax itself. Like there already is on new cars.

Fort Jefferson

8,237 posts

221 months

Monday 8th September 2014
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Peter911 said:
Maybe "road fund licence" is too posh for Pistonheads.
Or perhaps "Road Fund Licence" hasn't existed since the second world war.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Monday 8th September 2014
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andy-xr said:
It looks like we're back to calling it Car Tax now, reminder just arrived and there's no mention of VED
Back when there was an actual "Car Tax", it wasn't RFL/VED. It was 10% on the price of a new car. Lifted in the mid-late '80s, IIRC.

Jagmanv12

1,573 posts

163 months

Monday 8th September 2014
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One reason given for doing away with the disc is that it will save the government so many million. That may be but as usual they haven't thought it through. I've heard that the vat on tax disc holders from just one manufacturer is 1 million per year. So how much vat in total will be lost 5, 6 million? Maybe more.

Sargeant Orange

2,687 posts

146 months

Monday 8th September 2014
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The Dvla are damned if they do, damned if they don't. How many have actually taken the time to read the new regs rather than read about it in the daily wail?

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
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Jagmanv12 said:
I've heard that the vat on tax disc holders from just one manufacturer is 1 million per year.
I very much doubt that...

For there to be £5m in VAT on tax disc holders per year, there'd have to be £25m in VAT-inc sales per year, excluding promotionals - since people will just use something else instead. Since they're usually about a quid a piece, are you really suggesting that every single adult in the UK buys a new one every other year?

droopsnoot

11,806 posts

241 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
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I imagine that one of the other benefits of the new system is it makes it more difficult for a ne'er-do-well to buy a car that has several months tax remaining on it, then drive it around with a seemingly-valid tax disc without ever registering it to themselves.

oilspill

649 posts

192 months

Sunday 14th September 2014
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How many 'bandits' have been scamming the system by altering the emissions on their vehicle? i.e changing and removing parts of the exhaust system. Taxing on CO2 emissions is flawed.

Edited by oilspill on Sunday 14th September 12:52

Hedgerley

620 posts

267 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
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An e-petition has started to highlight the fact that HMG is getting double bubble under the new rules. Its got a long way to go before anyone takes any notice (100k signatures) but if you don't believe this is fair, I suggest you get signing....

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/68471

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
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oilspill said:
How many 'bandits' have been scamming the system by altering the emissions on their vehicle? i.e changing and removing parts of the exhaust system. Taxing on CO2 emissions is flawed.
And how do you suggest the _official_ CO2 figure on the V5C is altered by Joe Public?

TwigtheWonderkid

43,244 posts

149 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
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Hedgerley said:
An e-petition has started to highlight the fact that HMG is getting double bubble under the new rules. Its got a long way to go before anyone takes any notice (100k signatures) but if you don't believe this is fair, I suggest you get signing....

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/68471
Ridiculous petition. Really, is this the sum total of people's worries? They must have a pretty perfect life if they can get hot under the collar over this nonsense.

Hedgerley

620 posts

267 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
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Interesting response.

So you must think its OK to be taxed twice for the privilege of using the road for a month because that's effectively what HMG is getting with this new system. I agree the sums aren't huge and there are definitely more important things to worry about these days, but there is a point of principle here surely?

How would you feel if next month HMRC took twice the normal amount of income tax off you? Or you had to pay twice the amount of VAT for the fuel you buy for a month? I think the excuse of 'our systems can't handle it' is pretty lame in this case.