Road fund licence back door tax scam

[marshalla]

daemon said:

And what happens foreign lorries when they're here? How would they get a rebate? Or Lorries from the south of ireland coming onto the mainland or into the north?

Why should they get a rebate ?

[daemon]

marshalla said:

daemon said:

And what happens foreign lorries when they're here? How would they get a rebate? Or Lorries from the south of ireland coming onto the mainland or into the north?

Why should they get a rebate ?

Unfair competitive advantage i would have thought, relative to other european hauliers operating here.

I was merely throwing out potential problems, not writing a policy document on it btw.

[With these feet]

daemon said:

With these feet said:

You've never HAD to return the tax. Now you do. Not transfer, trade , swap or gift. Yes I agree the part refund has always been about but you now have no choice.

And how many times have you sold a car and the buyer has given you ALL the value of the road tax INCLUDING the current month that you couldnt reclaim anyway?

You are so missing the point. Whereas the NEW owner BENEFITS from the OLD owner GIVING them the remaining VED in the sale.
Now neither benefits other than the Government in they not only get to keep the outstanding part month, they then get to charge for it again from the new owner. Many times you'd see "12 months tax and test" in an ad to make the sale seem sweeter and the new owner not have to think about taxing the vehicle. Now once you have the V5 its time to tax.

[XFDreamer]

daemon said:

And what happens foreign lorries when they're here? How would they get a rebate? Or Lorries from the south of ireland coming onto the mainland or into the north?

Don't imagine for one minute that all those foreign trucks fill up with expensive UK fuel as soon as they dock in Dover. Most of them will carry enough fuel to complete they're journey in the UK then fill up with cheaper diesel on Mainland Europe.

That's why there are so many foreign trucks on our roads, our haulage industry cannot compete.

[daemon]

XFDreamer said:

daemon said:

And what happens foreign lorries when they're here? How would they get a rebate? Or Lorries from the south of ireland coming onto the mainland or into the north?

Don't imagine for one minute that all those foreign trucks fill up with expensive UK fuel as soon as they dock in Dover. Most of them will carry enough fuel to complete they're journey in the UK then fill up with cheaper diesel on Mainland Europe.

That's why there are so many foreign trucks on our roads, our haulage industry cannot compete.

They cant compete because of the taxation system used here, and also the restrictions put on UK drivers that arent necessarily adhered to by foreign drivers.

Diesel in france is around 1.3 Euro, which works out at £1.05. UK hauliers will already be claiming back the VAT @ 20% on diesel @ £1.25 a litre.

As i said, i wasnt writing a policy document, merely pointing out that its not as straightforward as bunging a bit extra on the price of a litre of fuel.

[daemon]

With these feet said:

You are so missing the point. Whereas the NEW owner BENEFITS from the OLD owner GIVING them the remaining VED in the sale.
Now neither benefits other than the Government in they not only get to keep the outstanding part month, they then get to charge for it again from the new owner. Many times you'd see "12 months tax and test" in an ad to make the sale seem sweeter and the new owner not have to think about taxing the vehicle. Now once you have the V5 its time to tax.

Great, so its not about the seller getting anything extra, its about the buyer maybe getting a £10 freebie of a months road tax? That of course being the biggest expense of changing your car

Including 12 months tax and test merely gave those who have no intentions of insuring the car something more "legit" to drive about in - or the "i'm just selling this because my wife doesnt like it and i'll meet you at tescos" low life car traders the opportunity to not have to declare the car in their name. Now at least they'll have to get trade plates or tax it, which should put some off OR at very least, make them more likely to be tracked.

Also, anyone selling a car with 12 months tax (unless its in the lowest band) is frankly silly. You're pretty much pissing its value up the wall.

Edited by daemon on Thursday 20th November 13:15

[With these feet]

daemon said:

Also, anyone selling a car with 12 months tax (unless its in the lowest band) is frankly silly. You're pretty much pissing its value up the wall.

Edited by daemon on Thursday 20th November 13:15

No, its not silly at all, its (was) called a selling point, just like "just serviced" "New tyres" "recent xyz overhaul" It makes the car stand out above the others.

Not everyone unloads st off to unsuspecting punters. Last year we bought a TT from a dealer, they worked out the outstanding value of the RFL and added it to the price. Happy? no, but it saved us from not having a tax disc at that time.

You dont take the CD players out of your cars when you sell them do you?

[daemon]

With these feet said:

No, its not silly at all, its (was) called a selling point, just like "just serviced" "New tyres" "recent xyz overhaul" It makes the car stand out above the others.

Not everyone unloads st off to unsuspecting punters. Last year we bought a TT from a dealer, they worked out the outstanding value of the RFL and added it to the price. Happy? no, but it saved us from not having a tax disc at that time.

You dont take the CD players out of your cars when you sell them do you?

Sure fill your car to the brim with £100 of fuel too, then advertise that as a selling point.

It wont add to the value either.

[daemon]

With these feet said:

Not everyone unloads st off to unsuspecting punters.

What has that got to do with anything i've said?

Its advice for anyone selling a car - if you put a years tax on a car to sell it OR if you leave a years tax on it when you sell it, you're effectively giving it away for free.

If you're selling the right car at the right price you dont need to add "selling points".

[daemon]

With these feet said:

You dont take the CD players out of your cars when you sell them do you?

No, and i dont give things away that have a monetary value that i dont need to either.

"Heres £200 cash on the passengers seat for you - its a 'selling point'"

[With these feet]

daemon said:

No, and i dont give things away that have a monetary value that i dont need to either.

"Heres £200 cash on the passengers seat for you - its a 'selling point'"

Sell many cars do you?

"Heres the car for sale, Ive swapped the decent tyres for old stters I had round the back, drained the tank into my jerry cans and the oils on the minimum as Ive not serviced it as its for sale. Dont want you to think theyre selling points and youre getting a bargain now.....

Seriously, the number of people that drive/ drove cars illegally with tax from the last owner must have been tiny. Still dont let that hide the fact that the government will collect around an extra £30M from this.

[xRIEx]

daemon said:

With these feet said:

No, its not silly at all, its (was) called a selling point, just like "just serviced" "New tyres" "recent xyz overhaul" It makes the car stand out above the others.

Not everyone unloads st off to unsuspecting punters. Last year we bought a TT from a dealer, they worked out the outstanding value of the RFL and added it to the price. Happy? no, but it saved us from not having a tax disc at that time.

You dont take the CD players out of your cars when you sell them do you?

Sure fill your car to the brim with £100 of fuel too, then advertise that as a selling point.

It wont add to the value either.

Not 'value' but 'saleability' - a car with knackered tyres needing immediate replacement at £4000 and a car with brand new tyres at £4400, a new set of tyres costs £400, the latter car is likely to be easier to sell even though the value of each is effectively the same.

You can call it 'enabling' or 'removing hassle' but either way, the less friction in the process will make it more attractive to a buyer.

[daemon]

With these feet said:

Sell many cars do you?

"Heres the car for sale, Ive swapped the decent tyres for old stters I had round the back, drained the tank into my jerry cans and the oils on the minimum as Ive not serviced it as its for sale. Dont want you to think theyre selling points and youre getting a bargain now.....

If someone sees crappy tyres that need replacing they will negotiate accordingly.

If someone chose to drain a fuel tank from FULL to a quarter of a tank thats their perrogative. Personally i'd say its a lot of hassle, rather than just not put a load of fuel in when you're about to sell. Certainly more hassle than getting a £200 rebate on a tax disk anywayds.

With these feet said:

Seriously, the number of people that drive/ drove cars illegally with tax from the last owner must have been tiny.

ALL of the scrote traders who advertise as private sellers pretty much got away with it because they bought a car with tax on it in the first place. With a trade policy they could legally drive about in it, whereas now, they'll either have to go more legit and get trade plates OR stop doing it.

Result!

With these feet said:

Still dont let that hide the fact that the government will collect around an extra £30M from this.

They're not making £30M EXTRA. Its a TAX. They want to get a certain amount of revenue from the whole process and this is how they are doing it.

Oh, and they now only charge an extra 5% for six months instead of 10% AND you can pay your tax monthly. I would have thought that was very worthwhile for people struggling on a budget, would you not agree?

If people on average change their cars every 3 years AND as you've said short circuiting the system and giving the tax to the buyer only ever benefitted the buyer, then really we're talking about £10 every three years. In fact my car is in the £30 a year band, so £3 every three years that i'm going to get "stung".

Is this really you're biggest problem in life?

[daemon]

xRIEx said:

Not 'value' but 'saleability' - a car with knackered tyres needing immediate replacement at £4000 and a car with brand new tyres at £4400, a new set of tyres costs £400, the latter car is likely to be easier to sell even though the value of each is effectively the same.

You can call it 'enabling' or 'removing hassle' but either way, the less friction in the process will make it more attractive to a buyer.

Indeed, but if someone else is selling a car at £3995 and you've an identical one with a years tax worth £300, you certainly arent going to be able to stick it on at £4295 and expect phone calls.

Thats just not how peoples minds work. Sad fact of motor trading.

[Toaster Pilot]

daemon said:

scrote traders.... trade plates

They're not though are they? Still at it, the lot of them, just hoping they don't get caught driving cars home from the people they buy them from without taxing them! Only need to look at your local "old scrap for sale" Facebook group to see them hard at work selling hundreds of cars on behalf of their obviously huge families, private sale innit bruv

Not just the scrotes either though, I had someone buy a car from me the other day who was respectable enough and they just drove off without sorting out tax despite my warnings/protests.

[confused_buyer]

daemon said:

Indeed, but if someone else is selling a car at £3995 and you've an identical one with a years tax worth £300, you certainly arent going to be able to stick it on at £4295 and expect phone calls.

Thats just not how peoples minds work. Sad fact of motor trading.

I think the point is that it used to be up to the seller how to present the car (with or without tax) and up to the buyer as to whether and how much extra they paid for it.

In otherwords it was a decision to be taken between two adults as it suited them the best. That decision has now been removed to the Government and they are charging for the privilidge.

[daemon]

Toaster Pilot said:

They're not though are they? Still at it, the lot of them, just hoping they don't get caught driving cars home from the people they buy them from without taxing them! Only need to look at your local "old scrap for sale" Facebook group to see them hard at work selling hundreds of cars on behalf of their obviously huge families, private sale innit bruv

Not just the scrotes either though, I had someone buy a car from me the other day who was respectable enough and they just drove off without sorting out tax despite my warnings/protests.

Well, hopefully it'll make it more difficult for them and they'll be less likely to do it.

I know of a couple of people - friends of friends of friends - who operated in that way and have now quit as its "too much hassle".

[Toaster Pilot]

daemon said:

Well, hopefully it'll make it more difficult for them and they'll be less likely to do it.

I know of a couple of people - friends of friends of friends - who operated in that way and have now quit as its "too much hassle".

Certainly hope so! Far too many of them around leading to those of us that honestly trade in a small-time fashion a bad name

[daemon]

confused_buyer said:

I think the point is that it used to be up to the seller how to present the car (with or without tax) and up to the buyer as to whether and how much extra they paid for it.

In otherwords it was a decision to be taken between two adults as it suited them the best. That decision has now been removed to the Government and they are charging for the privilidge.

Well its not in my "top 1000 things to worry about". A very minor change with an upside that they've reduced the premium to tax for 6 months to 5%, and you can now pay monthly. I know of more people who'll benefit from that than will feel aggrieved about what the government now prevents two consenting adults from doing.

[With these feet]

So Daemon, what you're actually saying is you agree with this as a good step?

That you disagree the government won't make a shed load out of it? I know its a tax but its a sneaky way of making people pay twice for something they get nothing for.

Though from your responses I recon you work for the DVLA and ICMFP.