Golf Mk7 - Sweetspot for price, spec, performance?
Discussion
Agree with the comment above, the sweetspot for the Golf Mk7 is a 2.0TSi DSG Octavia VRS Estate.
I've owned 2x Octavia VRS estates. Both were mk2 facelifts and had all options bar the sunroof. Both had the petrol 2.0 TSi and the first one was a manual but the second a DSG.
Current car is one of the Golf R deals, 5 door DSG, no extras. Awesome car no doubt about it, but can't hold a candle to the lesser powered VRS on price, spec or practicality - the octavia is MUCH bigger inside.
Performance wise, the DSG makes a 200bhp car outperform a 260bhp manual car in many situations.
I've owned 2x Octavia VRS estates. Both were mk2 facelifts and had all options bar the sunroof. Both had the petrol 2.0 TSi and the first one was a manual but the second a DSG.
Current car is one of the Golf R deals, 5 door DSG, no extras. Awesome car no doubt about it, but can't hold a candle to the lesser powered VRS on price, spec or practicality - the octavia is MUCH bigger inside.
Performance wise, the DSG makes a 200bhp car outperform a 260bhp manual car in many situations.
ShaunTheSheep said:
Agree with the comment above, the sweetspot for the Golf Mk7 is a 2.0TSi DSG Octavia VRS Estate.
I've owned 2x Octavia VRS estates. Both were mk2 facelifts and had all options bar the sunroof. Both had the petrol 2.0 TSi and the first one was a manual but the second a DSG.
Current car is one of the Golf R deals, 5 door DSG, no extras. Awesome car no doubt about it, but can't hold a candle to the lesser powered VRS on price, spec or practicality - the octavia is MUCH bigger inside.
Performance wise, the DSG makes a 200bhp car outperform a 260bhp manual car in many situations.
In what situation will it outperform a 260bhp car?I've owned 2x Octavia VRS estates. Both were mk2 facelifts and had all options bar the sunroof. Both had the petrol 2.0 TSi and the first one was a manual but the second a DSG.
Current car is one of the Golf R deals, 5 door DSG, no extras. Awesome car no doubt about it, but can't hold a candle to the lesser powered VRS on price, spec or practicality - the octavia is MUCH bigger inside.
Performance wise, the DSG makes a 200bhp car outperform a 260bhp manual car in many situations.
It does makes a little difference from a standing start when it is most beneficial. Even on the fastest Golf R the difference to 60mph is 0.2sec between the same powered DSG to manual.
On the move the at higher speeds the difference is nothing.
So how come there is very little difference between the same car with the same power, but you think a DSG with 200bhp will outperform a manual with 260bhp?
Like for like, 60bhp is a sizeable amount of power to make up.
I've not seen anything to suggest DSG is worth much at all.
I've been searching desperately for a Golf R then a reasonably priced GTi after the R search failed and have drawn a blank.
Compared to a similar priced Merc's \ BMW's the Golf seems terribly poor value especially second-hand. Then I did look at a 2010 Focus which was £9 a month cheaper than a Golf R on a lease!
Compared to a similar priced Merc's \ BMW's the Golf seems terribly poor value especially second-hand. Then I did look at a 2010 Focus which was £9 a month cheaper than a Golf R on a lease!
andrewparker said:
What do we think the Golf competes against these days? Still the Focus etc or the 1-Series, A-Class, A3?
Whilst I don't personally like the 1-series and A-Class those are what I would be comparing it to, along with the A3 (which actually appears to work out cheaper) and a bit of a wildcard in the Lexus CT 200h which I'm going to take a look at tomorrow.Comparisons to Skoda and Seat are "interesting" as I really don't know if it's just "same quality different badge" or if there's more in it.
Just my two penneth.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Whilst I don't personally like the 1-series and A-Class those are what I would be comparing it to, along with the A3 (which actually appears to work out cheaper) and a bit of a wildcard in the Lexus CT 200h which I'm going to take a look at tomorrow.
Comparisons to Skoda and Seat are "interesting" as I really don't know if it's just "same quality different badge" or if there's more in it.
Just my two penneth.
Golf and Octavia are by and large the same thing.Comparisons to Skoda and Seat are "interesting" as I really don't know if it's just "same quality different badge" or if there's more in it.
Just my two penneth.
The former having slightly better noise insulation (although I'm not 100% certain that still applies to the golf mk7 vs octavia mk3) and a higher purchase price. All down to clever VW marketing and a general tendency towards badge snobbery in the UK.
The Octavia is more practical and has a much larger boot also.
Driver101 said:
In what situation will it outperform a 260bhp car?
It does makes a little difference from a standing start when it is most beneficial. Even on the fastest Golf R the difference to 60mph is 0.2sec between the same powered DSG to manual.
On the move the at higher speeds the difference is nothing.
So how come there is very little difference between the same car with the same power, but you think a DSG with 200bhp will outperform a manual with 260bhp?
Like for like, 60bhp is a sizeable amount of power to make up.
I've not seen anything to suggest DSG is worth much at all.
I think you seriously underestimate the length of a real world manual gear change.It does makes a little difference from a standing start when it is most beneficial. Even on the fastest Golf R the difference to 60mph is 0.2sec between the same powered DSG to manual.
On the move the at higher speeds the difference is nothing.
So how come there is very little difference between the same car with the same power, but you think a DSG with 200bhp will outperform a manual with 260bhp?
Like for like, 60bhp is a sizeable amount of power to make up.
I've not seen anything to suggest DSG is worth much at all.
Side by side off the line I got a perspective I've never seen anywhere else, never on telly even in drag races on top gear and the like.
In real life it was plain as day when he was changing gear, every change saw any lead evaporate.
ShaunTheSheep said:
I think you seriously underestimate the length of a real world manual gear change.
Side by side off the line I got a perspective I've never seen anywhere else, never on telly even in drag races on top gear and the like.
In real life it was plain as day when he was changing gear, every change saw any lead evaporate.
a
I think you need to question those doing the gear changes. Side by side off the line I got a perspective I've never seen anywhere else, never on telly even in drag races on top gear and the like.
In real life it was plain as day when he was changing gear, every change saw any lead evaporate.
a
The DSG makes fractions of a second difference to professional drivers even when there is numerous gear changes taking place.
On the move where speeds are higher and less gear changes, DSG becomes even less beneficial.
Looking at some of the other VAG cars, they quote the same acceleration times for DSG and manual.
Personally I think you are vastly exaggerating the benefits of DSG. If is was a race, I'd take the car with the extra 60bhp.
Looking back at previous magazine tests DSG cars have often lost to manual cars with the same power.
I've often seen the same down the drag strip too.
I've had two DSG Golfs now and your really cannot beat that gearbox. It does everything you want, changes gear at lightning speed and allows you to easily access the maximum performance and economy on offer. I'd only go Manual if it was a cooking spec 1.2 TSI or 1.6 TDI for someone disinterested in cars.
va1o said:
I've had two DSG Golfs now and your really cannot beat that gearbox. It does everything you want, changes gear at lightning speed and allows you to easily access the maximum performance and economy on offer. I'd only go Manual if it was a cooking spec 1.2 TSI or 1.6 TDI for someone disinterested in cars.
I see people complaining it isn't so nice when slowing down.I was also reading there has been quite a few turbo failures on the new 2.0 engine and the vast majority are on cars that have the DSG box.
I would argue that someone interested in cars would choose a manual. It still gives the best driving experience and sense of reward that you are driving and not having driving aids do the job for you.
Edited by Driver101 on Sunday 28th September 00:50
Driver101 said:
I think you need to question those doing the gear changes.
The DSG makes fractions of a second difference to professional drivers even when there is numerous gear changes taking place.
On the move where speeds are higher and less gear changes, DSG becomes even less beneficial.
Looking at some of the other VAG cars, they quote the same acceleration times for DSG and manual.
Personally I think you are vastly exaggerating the benefits of DSG. If is was a race, I'd take the car with the extra 60bhp.
Looking back at previous magazine tests DSG cars have often lost to manual cars with the same power.
I've often seen the same down the drag strip too.
I can only relay to you what I experienced first hand by actually going out and doing it.The DSG makes fractions of a second difference to professional drivers even when there is numerous gear changes taking place.
On the move where speeds are higher and less gear changes, DSG becomes even less beneficial.
Looking at some of the other VAG cars, they quote the same acceleration times for DSG and manual.
Personally I think you are vastly exaggerating the benefits of DSG. If is was a race, I'd take the car with the extra 60bhp.
Looking back at previous magazine tests DSG cars have often lost to manual cars with the same power.
I've often seen the same down the drag strip too.
Driver101 said:
I think you need to question those doing the gear changes.
The DSG makes fractions of a second difference to professional drivers even when there is numerous gear changes taking place.
On the move where speeds are higher and less gear changes, DSG becomes even less beneficial.
Looking at some of the other VAG cars, they quote the same acceleration times for DSG and manual.
Personally I think you are vastly exaggerating the benefits of DSG. If is was a race, I'd take the car with the extra 60bhp.
Looking back at previous magazine tests DSG cars have often lost to manual cars with the same power.
I've often seen the same down the drag strip too.
i think you need to stop quoting manufacturers times.The DSG makes fractions of a second difference to professional drivers even when there is numerous gear changes taking place.
On the move where speeds are higher and less gear changes, DSG becomes even less beneficial.
Looking at some of the other VAG cars, they quote the same acceleration times for DSG and manual.
Personally I think you are vastly exaggerating the benefits of DSG. If is was a race, I'd take the car with the extra 60bhp.
Looking back at previous magazine tests DSG cars have often lost to manual cars with the same power.
I've often seen the same down the drag strip too.
I've found Vw to be pretty conservative most of the time when it comes to the DSG model and in the real world beating the quoted figures is not that difficult,
there is no skill involved and just about anyone could get a DSG golf r to 60 in well under 5 seconds,
most people on the other hand would probably struggle to beat 6 seconds in the manual version
because most people aren't as you put it "professional" drivers
in the real world I would imagine the difference from a standing start with 2 average drivers would be quite significant
once on the move then I agree that any advantage is mostly gone
and a "professional " driver may get better results with a manual, but these are every day cars for average people
Thing is in the real world 99% of my driving is very boring i.e. end of the road, through town then down a bypasses before braking for a roundabout and repeating the process several times.
My current car (Freelander 2) is automatic because it suits that sort of car, and whilst I haven't yet driven a Golf 7 (DSG or manual) I just get bored of changing gears but on the odd occasion I want to go for a spin it would be nice to have the option via paddles (I believe the ones on the Golf are "awake" all the time you don't have to put the box in a certain mode?).
Regards DSG shift times vs. manual, well really is it something that is even vaguely an issue in the real world vs. on a track?
I had a Boxster before I had the Freelander and the debate always used to be Boxster vs. Cayman and my view was that I'm not a good enough driver for the car to be the limiting factor.
My current car (Freelander 2) is automatic because it suits that sort of car, and whilst I haven't yet driven a Golf 7 (DSG or manual) I just get bored of changing gears but on the odd occasion I want to go for a spin it would be nice to have the option via paddles (I believe the ones on the Golf are "awake" all the time you don't have to put the box in a certain mode?).
Regards DSG shift times vs. manual, well really is it something that is even vaguely an issue in the real world vs. on a track?
I had a Boxster before I had the Freelander and the debate always used to be Boxster vs. Cayman and my view was that I'm not a good enough driver for the car to be the limiting factor.
Diderot said:
Get the R because if you don't you'll be always wondering whether it would have been better. Which it probably would. 4WD useful too.
I''d also consider testing the M135i with the auto and adaptive suspension.
If I were to look at GTi/GTD new I'd be tempted as there doesn't seem to be that much in it - used they all seem north of £30k plus nobody seems to have one in to even look at.I''d also consider testing the M135i with the auto and adaptive suspension.
I just don't like the 1-series enough.
I'm still curious how drive the deal and other discount sites work since someone mentioned "Yes you get full dealer facilities" yet their FAQ clearly suggests no part-exchange.
I'd also be open to leasing an R but again it's how the p/x would work?
EDIT: Case in point on pricing http://usedcars.volkswagen.co.uk/Golf-GTI/GTD/R/2....
Edited by bhstewie on Sunday 28th September 09:48
hstewie on Sunday 28th September 09:48bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I like the Golf is the short answer.....being totally honest there's a little badge snobbery in there somewhere I guess.
Is VW worthy of snobbery?I appreciate that I may not be typical, but I just don't get the whole "image" and "prestige" thing with every-day, mass-produced cars.
Do people really pay that Much attention to other people's brand of car?
Does my Mondeo mark me out as poor, lacking intelligence or unsuccessful in comparison with somebody driving a Passat or 3-series?
Would bigger wheels redress the balance?
Edited by MC Bodge on Sunday 28th September 10:44
ShaunTheSheep said:
Driver101 said:
I think you need to question those doing the gear changes.
The DSG makes fractions of a second difference to professional drivers even when there is numerous gear changes taking place.
On the move where speeds are higher and less gear changes, DSG becomes even less beneficial.
Looking at some of the other VAG cars, they quote the same acceleration times for DSG and manual.
Personally I think you are vastly exaggerating the benefits of DSG. If is was a race, I'd take the car with the extra 60bhp.
Looking back at previous magazine tests DSG cars have often lost to manual cars with the same power.
I've often seen the same down the drag strip too.
I can only relay to you what I experienced first hand by actually going out and doing it.The DSG makes fractions of a second difference to professional drivers even when there is numerous gear changes taking place.
On the move where speeds are higher and less gear changes, DSG becomes even less beneficial.
Looking at some of the other VAG cars, they quote the same acceleration times for DSG and manual.
Personally I think you are vastly exaggerating the benefits of DSG. If is was a race, I'd take the car with the extra 60bhp.
Looking back at previous magazine tests DSG cars have often lost to manual cars with the same power.
I've often seen the same down the drag strip too.
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