RE: Jaguar XE - full details

[kambites]

RobM77 said:

BMW have such a terrible image in the UK I doubt that's remotely true.

I don't think they really do have a poor image to 90% of people in the UK. To most, a BMW is just a "posh German car" in the same way as a Mercedes or Audi. I know plenty of (rather materialistic) people who when looking for a new car decide "it must be a Mercedes, BMW or Audi" before even looking at which models the companies actually make.

Suggest they might consider a Ford or a Skoda and (despite the fact they've almost certainly never been in the model in quesiton) they'll look at you like you're mad.

Edited by kambites on Sunday 14th September 09:28

[peter450]

Kawasicki said:

I've never defined a car by the level of power it has, or the spec level.

To me a 116i and a 130i are basically very similar cars.

One is faster and more refined, sure, but they are both quick enough that you need to hold back not to get in legal trouble. This idea that only the powerful version will handle properly is rubbish, touted by those who are not really interested in(or paying much attention to) handling. It's ok to never pay much attention to handling, most people don't, just don't imagine that your opinion on the matter has much weight. I don't really enjoy scotch whiskey, yet I don't blather on that there is no difference between brands or mixes, that it is all a marketing scam for the gullible/image obsessed. I don't repeat what I read in whiskey lovers magazine as gospel. I make my own mind up. This is the opposite of being brand obsessed.

A classic example of this. Nissan launch 350z, car magazines go crazy with praise. I drive it. In comparison to a lowly BMW E36 318is it is not very good, for how I like to drive. Am I wrong? People tell me the power of the Nissan's v6 is glorious, the handling is classic rwd coupe. I just think I'd prefer a poverty spec 318is. Yes, I know I'm a PH driving god, but it just wasn't as composed as the "crap 4 cylinder" BMW for how and where I drive.

You seem to have missed the point somewhere in all that

I don't think Its been said anywhere that the more powerful car handles better, just that extra power will affect the handling and that the driving experience will be totally different as a result of having vastly different engines under the hood...

You prefer the handling of the 320D to a 350z fine, but that's not the reason people buy small capacity BMW diesels, because they out handle a 350z.

As I said no one buying a 118d really cares that much about how it handles.....the main reason for buying that car is as already stated to get from A to B as cheaply as possible in a BMW, the main criterion for buying is how it "handles" the wallet

[kambites]

peter450 said:

As I said no one buying a 118d really cares that much about how it handles...

That's a daft comment. Cearly some people buying 118d care; it's just probably not a very large proportion of buyers.

[Kawasicki]

kambites said:

peter450 said:

As I said no one buying a 118d really cares that much about how it handles...

That's a daft comment. Cearly some people buying 118d care; it's just probably not a very large proportion of buyers.

Agreed. I would also like to add that not many people buying Ferraris really care how they handle either. The vast majority of car buyers never get beyond mild cornering. They just want a car that is quick and won't do anything that frightens them.

[anonymous-user]

peter450 said:

As I said no one buying a 118d really cares that much about how it handles....

I disagree. Sort of! ;-)

I agree that 99.9% of people buying a 1er don't actively care how it handles, but this is simple because they lack the training/skills/insight to be able to objectively compare how it handles to say a fwd Golf.


BUT, i think a large percentage of those people can and do spot that the rwd 1er is "nicer to drive" or "steers nicely" or "i like how it changes gear" or "quiet isn't it dear", and of course "goes well, don't it" and a myriad other colloquialisms that non car people use to describe how they think a car is.
And that is my point, as a complete package, the 1er IS a nice car, and add in good economy, low tax, and maybe a bit of brand snobbery from the badge, and bingo, no wonder they sell loads of them, even the 116d's ;-)


This is what JLR need to achieve with the XE. It can't just be good looking. It can't just have good performance or good economy. It can't just be the right price. It must be ALL of those things, and that compromise is exactly what zee germans have been getting right for quite a long time now.

With the XE, JLR have a good chance of finally making the grade imo! (but they need the new range of engines, and the full range of body styles ASAP!)

[DrDeAtH]

I await the XE estate pics..... It looks a nice car, hopefully it will sell well, as I'm bored of seeing a plethora of German cars everywhere

As for the interior, many have said its low rent without seeing it in the flesh.
So, really it's just your perception... It can't be any blander than a BMW interior...

[ZesPak]

DrDeAtH said:

I await the XE estate pics..... It looks a nice car, hopefully it will sell well, as I'm bored of seeing a plethora of German cars everywhere

As for the interior, many have said its low rent without seeing it in the flesh.
So, really it's just your perception... It can't be any blander than a BMW interior...

Agreed, having had a couple of 159s, I was a bit put off by the initial pictures of the XE interior. But, on closer inspection, it might look good in a decent colour, I'm thinking brown or tan.
As above, can't wait for the estate or online configurator.

[ORD]

Max_Torque said:

peter450 said:

As I said no one buying a 118d really cares that much about how it handles....

I disagree. Sort of! ;-)

I agree that 99.9% of people buying a 1er don't actively care how it handles, but this is simple because they lack the training/skills/insight to be able to objectively compare how it handles to say a fwd Golf.


BUT, i think a large percentage of those people can and do spot that the rwd 1er is "nicer to drive" or "steers nicely" or "i like how it changes gear" or "quiet isn't it dear", and of course "goes well, don't it" and a myriad other colloquialisms that non car people use to describe how they think a car is.
And that is my point, as a complete package, the 1er IS a nice car, and add in good economy, low tax, and maybe a bit of brand snobbery from the badge, and bingo, no wonder they sell loads of them, even the 116d's ;-)


This is what JLR need to achieve with the XE. It can't just be good looking. It can't just have good performance or good economy. It can't just be the right price. It must be ALL of those things, and that compromise is exactly what zee germans have been getting right for quite a long time now.

With the XE, JLR have a good chance of finally making the grade imo! (but they need the new range of engines, and the full range of body styles ASAP!)

I can't say I agree re the 1 series. Badge and badge alone explains the success of that car. Those who would know, let alone appreciate, its RWD characteristics are in a tiny majority and probably wouldn't buy a new 1 series anyway. Put that to one side and you are left with a car that, apart from being more expensive and less spacious, is pretty hard to distinguish from any other shopping car.

For what it's worth, I don't think the 1 series handles materially better than a Golf or Mazda 3. Upsides and downsides, but it really isn't streets ahead in handling terms.

[DonkeyApple]

ORD said:

I can't say I agree re the 1 series. Badge and badge alone explains the success of that car. Those who would know, let alone appreciate, its RWD characteristics are in a tiny majority and probably wouldn't buy a new 1 series anyway. Put that to one side and you are left with a car that, apart from being more expensive and less spacious, is pretty hard to distinguish from any other shopping car.

For what it's worth, I don't think the 1 series handles materially better than a Golf or Mazda 3. Upsides and downsides, but it really isn't streets ahead in handling terms.

I agree completely. Ask most 1 series drivers which wheels drive the car and most would probably point to the steering wheel. Ask them why they bought the car and few are going to answer 'performance and handling'.

It's about the best badge for lowest easy monthly installments.

And hopefully, the same will be true for the basic XE, which to me seems infinitely more asperational than a 1 or 3 series in comparable spec.

[The Vambo]

Max_Torque said:

This is what JLR need to achieve with the XE. It can't just be good looking. It can't just have good performance or good economy. It can't just be the right price. It must be ALL of those things, and that compromise is exactly what zee germans have been getting right for quite a long time now.

Good looks, both inside and out and reliability are almost all a car needs to be very successful IMHO.

Enthusiasts make up such a small percent of total buyers that good dynamics are way further down the list of importance that the 5 second "want it" factor that excellent styling gives.

[XJ Flyer]

DonkeyApple said:

I agree completely. Ask most 1 series drivers which wheels drive the car and most would probably point to the steering wheel. Ask them why they bought the car and few are going to answer 'performance and handling'.

It's about the best badge for lowest easy monthly installments.

If that was the case then the 2.0 Litre X type would have been the most successful desirable Jaguar of all time.While JLR could have saved itself a fortune in investment costs by just asking the Chinese to build a cheap fwd car with exactly the same styling as the XE.In which case all the criterea of price and badge would have been met.

[craste]

My company car is due for replacement next year and I would love this new Jag.

I think it looks cracking, and bet it will be even nicer in the flesh. I bet it will get rave first drive reviews and they won't be able to make enough of them to keep up with demand!

I think the new bmw 3series looks a bit dated already, the c-class looks nice but the dashboard with the silly sat nav screen looks like an afterthought.

The audi A4 is old.


Everything about the jag is brand new and it will be the cool medium sports saloon car to be seen in I reckon.

[DonkeyApple]

XJ Flyer said:

DonkeyApple said:

I agree completely. Ask most 1 series drivers which wheels drive the car and most would probably point to the steering wheel. Ask them why they bought the car and few are going to answer 'performance and handling'.

It's about the best badge for lowest easy monthly installments.

If that was the case then the 2.0 Litre X type would have been the most successful desirable Jaguar of all time.While JLR could have saved itself a fortune in investment costs by just asking the Chinese to build a cheap fwd car with exactly the same styling as the XE.In which case all the criterea of price and badge would have been met.

Why? What was Jaguars image at that time? Certainly wasn't modern asperational. Large numbers of people in the target for a small fleet car clearly didn't want to be associated with Jaguar's image at that time.

Can you blame them? Jaguar have spent a long time forging their new image and by all counts have done an extremely good job.

So, today, with a better image, a more asperational image, a less tarnished image, a more exciting image, a more sporty image, well, they will probably make a better job of selling into the fleet market.

[blearyeyedboy]

By the way, does anyone know the XE's dimensions?

I'm trying to figure out if it'll fit in my garage...

[TheBigUnit]

kambites said:

peter450 said:

As I said no one buying a 118d really cares that much about how it handles...

That's a daft comment. Cearly some people buying 118d care; it's just probably not a very large proportion of buyers.

I'm in that small group. I've had two. Until the Twingo, they were the cheapest way into brand new RWD, and given how big the 3 series has become, the only truly compact RWD car from a mainstream manufacturer.

[XJ Flyer]

DonkeyApple said:

XJ Flyer said:

DonkeyApple said:

I agree completely. Ask most 1 series drivers which wheels drive the car and most would probably point to the steering wheel. Ask them why they bought the car and few are going to answer 'performance and handling'.

It's about the best badge for lowest easy monthly installments.

If that was the case then the 2.0 Litre X type would have been the most successful desirable Jaguar of all time.While JLR could have saved itself a fortune in investment costs by just asking the Chinese to build a cheap fwd car with exactly the same styling as the XE.In which case all the criterea of price and badge would have been met.

Why? What was Jaguars image at that time? Certainly wasn't modern asperational. Large numbers of people in the target for a small fleet car clearly didn't want to be associated with Jaguar's image at that time.

Can you blame them? Jaguar have spent a long time forging their new image and by all counts have done an extremely good job.

So, today, with a better image, a more asperational image, a less tarnished image, a more exciting image, a more sporty image, well, they will probably make a better job of selling into the fleet market.

'Image' in this case obviously being built on the idea of expected Jaguar type levels of performance and handling behind the badge not Mondeo type performance and handling.IE it is the product which defines the badge not vice versa.

[RobM77]

TheBigUnit said:

kambites said:

peter450 said:

As I said no one buying a 118d really cares that much about how it handles...

That's a daft comment. Cearly some people buying 118d care; it's just probably not a very large proportion of buyers.

I'm in that small group. I've had two. Until the Twingo, they were the cheapest way into brand new RWD, and given how big the 3 series has become, the only truly compact RWD car from a mainstream manufacturer.

I spoke to a BMW salesman a while ago about this. He said that people like us were in a minority, but most people felt the BMW had more composure and capability through corners. Even if buyers can't put it into words, they feel the benefits of the balanced layout. It's not surprising - I frequently go between FWD and RWD and the difference in handling, regardless of the FWD car, is enormous. The choice of a diesel is down to a number of reasons - with most people I suspect it's BiK, some may like the more relaxed torque curve, and more than you might think get annoyed at the top of the pedal lag on a petrol engine - I know my wife sees it as one of the few negatives in her Civic Type R, and even my mate's Mum (who is over 60) was complaining about it the other day!

[RobM77]

blearyeyedboy said:

By the way, does anyone know the XE's dimensions?

I'm trying to figure out if it'll fit in my garage...

I remember Autocar saying that it was longer than the current 3 series, which is dissapointing because that's already grown compared to the last one. I don't remember Autocar quoting any width figures.

[danp]

RobM77 said:

I remember Autocar saying that it was longer than the current 3 series, which is dissapointing because that's already grown compared to the last one. I don't remember Autocar quoting any width figures.

The XE is 4,672mm long, 1,850mm wide and 1,416mm tall with a 2,835mm wheelbase, making it slightly bigger than the F30 BMW 3-Series in every dimension aside from height (-13mm).

Edit: It's apparently 21kg lighter than the F30, but Jaguar say that the F30 will gain weight in 2015 to meet EU6 (from CAR magazine)

Edited by danp on Monday 15th September 08:49

[RobM77]

DonkeyApple said:

ORD said:

I can't say I agree re the 1 series. Badge and badge alone explains the success of that car. Those who would know, let alone appreciate, its RWD characteristics are in a tiny majority and probably wouldn't buy a new 1 series anyway. Put that to one side and you are left with a car that, apart from being more expensive and less spacious, is pretty hard to distinguish from any other shopping car.

For what it's worth, I don't think the 1 series handles materially better than a Golf or Mazda 3. Upsides and downsides, but it really isn't streets ahead in handling terms.

I agree completely. Ask most 1 series drivers which wheels drive the car and most would probably point to the steering wheel. Ask them why they bought the car and few are going to answer 'performance and handling'.

It's about the best badge for lowest easy monthly installments.

And hopefully, the same will be true for the basic XE, which to me seems infinitely more asperational than a 1 or 3 series in comparable spec.

Ask me a question about why my washing machine washes clothes so well and I will be completely stumped. I know the end result of the tech though and it's a very good washing machine. I've often spoken to people who love the way their BMW drives, and although I didn't ask the question, I suspect they wouldn't know or care which wheels were driven, or which way round the engine was, where the gearbox was, the diff etc.