RE: Jaguar XE - full details

RE: Jaguar XE - full details

Author
Discussion

Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

185 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
It's brand perception was ghastly. It was basically a dirty or drunk old man's car. What exactly did Jaguar stand for back then? Well it wasn't sport, performance, success or style. It was, to be blunt, rolling out of the Golf course car park, half cut and with the female staff happy to see you gone.
Yeah, I did wonder who signed that advert off.

bunyarra

310 posts

211 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
Fittster said:
BMW and Audi have huge sales. Can you tell me the image of the typical owner?
Bought 4 Jags in a row just because of my usual motorway experience of BMW and now Audi drivers.

On one run to work (70 miles), did a mental totting up of the most annoying drivers and their car brands encountered ; Audi #1, BMW #2, Volvo #3 smile

YMMV

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
XJ Flyer said:
'Image' in this case obviously being built on the idea of expected Jaguar type levels of performance and handling behind the badge not Mondeo type performance and handling.IE it is the product which defines the badge not vice versa.
It's obviously both. The baby Jag didn't fail purely because of a harsh media pushing the Ford link. It failed because not enough potential customers wanted to be associated with the Jaguar brand at that time. It's brand perception was ghastly. It was basically a dirty or drunk old man's car. What exactly did Jaguar stand for back then? Well it wasn't sport, performance, success or style. It was, to be blunt, rolling out of the Golf course car park, half cut and with the female staff happy to see you gone.

They've invested an awful lot of time and money in disposing of that image and the customers that had crept into the brand like a disease and in my book they have laid it to bed.
The relevant bit being that it is not just a co incidence that they didn't decide to make the XE a cheaper to produce fwd shopping trolley,with the grunt of at least the supercharged V6 ( and hopefully the 5.0 Litre V8 ) being put through its front wheels.

As for the image it is still the older ones which are winning races where Jaguar belongs on the track.Not the later ones and certainly not anything from that period when Jaguar went along the fwd route on the basis that no one can tell the difference it is only the badge that matters.

As for old school traditional 3 box Jaguar styling v the later ideas the jury is still out.But I guess that I'll just stay with the old XJ in that regard in that it looks as good as it goes on the road or track.If that gets me branded as a middle aged hell raiser who drinks too much and chases young women that's a bonus.

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
DonkeyApple said:
XJ Flyer said:
'Image' in this case obviously being built on the idea of expected Jaguar type levels of performance and handling behind the badge not Mondeo type performance and handling.IE it is the product which defines the badge not vice versa.
It's obviously both. The baby Jag didn't fail purely because of a harsh media pushing the Ford link. It failed because not enough potential customers wanted to be associated with the Jaguar brand at that time. It's brand perception was ghastly. It was basically a dirty or drunk old man's car. What exactly did Jaguar stand for back then? Well it wasn't sport, performance, success or style. It was, to be blunt, rolling out of the Golf course car park, half cut and with the female staff happy to see you gone.

They've invested an awful lot of time and money in disposing of that image and the customers that had crept into the brand like a disease and in my book they have laid it to bed.
The relevant bit being that it is not just a co incidence that they didn't decide to make the XE a cheaper to produce fwd shopping trolley,with the grunt of at least the supercharged V6 ( and hopefully the 5.0 Litre V8 ) being put through its front wheels.

As for the image it is still the older ones which are winning races where Jaguar belongs on the track.Not the later ones and certainly not anything from that period when Jaguar went along the fwd route on the basis that no one can tell the difference it is only the badge that matters.

As for old school traditional 3 box Jaguar styling v the later ideas the jury is still out.But I guess that I'll just stay with the old XJ in that regard in that it looks as good as it goes on the road or track.If that gets me branded as a middle aged hell raiser who drinks too much and chases young women that's a bonus.
Why would the XE ever have been FWD?!!

80s XJ's regularly get on the podium at Wimbledon. The problem is that I don't think this was broadcast worldwide to a discerning audience of potential buyers. But it's very clear that the XJ is a race bred champion of the circuits. Every single facet of the XJ just screams track racer. I'm surprised they didn't sell a stripped out GT3 version as it was so obviously going to dominate the scene.

andyps

7,817 posts

281 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
As for the image it is still the older ones which are winning races where Jaguar belongs on the track.Not the later ones and certainly not anything from that period when Jaguar went along the fwd route on the basis that no one can tell the difference it is only the badge that matters.
Maybe not this year but over the last few years the evolution of the Jaguars which were raced when the X-Type was introduced have been very successful wink

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
Why would the XE ever have been FWD?!!

80s XJ's regularly get on the podium at Wimbledon. The problem is that I don't think this was broadcast worldwide to a discerning audience of potential buyers. But it's very clear that the XJ is a race bred champion of the circuits. Every single facet of the XJ just screams track racer. I'm surprised they didn't sell a stripped out GT3 version as it was so obviously going to dominate the scene.
Like the X type fwd would have been the layout of choice if the criterea of the market sector it is aimed at was just that of price and badge.

As for racing,using old school Jags just for banger racing is a waste.While it would actually be great to see someone actually enter an XE in at least supercharged 6 cylinder form,even better with the 5.0 litre V8,hopefully with a manual box conversion.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX2yyuKsA2k

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
DonkeyApple said:
Why would the XE ever have been FWD?!!

80s XJ's regularly get on the podium at Wimbledon. The problem is that I don't think this was broadcast worldwide to a discerning audience of potential buyers. But it's very clear that the XJ is a race bred champion of the circuits. Every single facet of the XJ just screams track racer. I'm surprised they didn't sell a stripped out GT3 version as it was so obviously going to dominate the scene.
Like the X type fwd would have been the layout of choice if the criterea of the market sector it is aimed at was just that of price and badge.

As for racing,using old school Jags just for banger racing is a waste.While it would actually be great to see someone actually enter an XE in at least supercharged 6 cylinder form,even better with the 5.0 litre V8,hopefully with a manual box conversion.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX2yyuKsA2k
A lot of Jaguars driven at moderate speed. I can only assume that someone shouted "First one around the track gets a pint of room temperature ale and a sneaky peek down the barmaid's top".

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
andyps said:
XJ Flyer said:
As for the image it is still the older ones which are winning races where Jaguar belongs on the track.Not the later ones and certainly not anything from that period when Jaguar went along the fwd route on the basis that no one can tell the difference it is only the badge that matters.
Maybe not this year but over the last few years the evolution of the Jaguars which were raced when the X-Type was introduced have been very successful wink
In general anything with an auto box isn't going to be the type of choice.Let alone any of the X type range which I was mainly referring to regarding 'anything' in that description.Although the awd 3.0 litre manual might just be the exception which proves the rule in that regard.But in general even with that the drawbacks of the expense and complication of the awd layout outweigh the available perfomance of the 3.0 V6.

Which is why the X300 is more or less the last of the practical Jaguar saloon racers so far.Which can be seen and confirmed at any events in the Jaguar racing series.

xRIEx

8,180 posts

147 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
As for racing,using old school Jags just for banger racing is a waste.While it would actually be great to see someone actually enter an XE in at least supercharged 6 cylinder form,even better with the 5.0 litre V8,hopefully with a manual box conversion.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX2yyuKsA2k
A one make race series? That's your argument?

I hope I never meet you, or anyone with your condition, in real life.

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
ORD said:
XJ Flyer said:
DonkeyApple said:
Why would the XE ever have been FWD?!!

80s XJ's regularly get on the podium at Wimbledon. The problem is that I don't think this was broadcast worldwide to a discerning audience of potential buyers. But it's very clear that the XJ is a race bred champion of the circuits. Every single facet of the XJ just screams track racer. I'm surprised they didn't sell a stripped out GT3 version as it was so obviously going to dominate the scene.
Like the X type fwd would have been the layout of choice if the criterea of the market sector it is aimed at was just that of price and badge.

As for racing,using old school Jags just for banger racing is a waste.While it would actually be great to see someone actually enter an XE in at least supercharged 6 cylinder form,even better with the 5.0 litre V8,hopefully with a manual box conversion.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX2yyuKsA2k
A lot of Jaguars driven at moderate speed. I can only assume that someone shouted "First one around the track gets a pint of room temperature ale and a sneaky peek down the barmaid's top".
To be fair it is big saloon racing not Catherhams.But the relevant bit is that the modern ranges lumbered with very difficult to convert auto boxes don't seem to be the car of choice.Let alone anything with fwd or awd when the choice is there for anyone who wants to use them.

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
xRIEx said:
XJ Flyer said:
As for racing,using old school Jags just for banger racing is a waste.While it would actually be great to see someone actually enter an XE in at least supercharged 6 cylinder form,even better with the 5.0 litre V8,hopefully with a manual box conversion.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX2yyuKsA2k
A one make race series? That's your argument?

I hope I never meet you, or anyone with your condition, in real life.
A 'one make series' that no surprise seems to be resistant to using the later types and especially anything with fwd when the choice is there.

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
ORD said:
A lot of Jaguars driven at moderate speed. I can only assume that someone shouted "First one around the track gets a pint of room temperature ale and a sneaky peek down the barmaid's top".
But it was a Jaguar lock out on the podium. That's impressive.

At least when my old man was racing Jags they had to pass people like Brabham in Galaxies et al in order to win.

I liked the ads associated with oldish Jag racing, a big pair of knockers and top right, something about old men getting a 6 pack rofl (Scrubbed PC before anyone suggests they are tailored to me rather than the cars wink)


Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

185 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
ORD said:
I can only assume that someone shouted "First one around the track gets a pint of room temperature ale and a sneaky peek down the barmaid's top".
I'm starting to think that I ought to buy a Jaguar, they are obviously designed for me.

Amirhussain

11,486 posts

162 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
bunyarra said:
Fittster said:
BMW and Audi have huge sales. Can you tell me the image of the typical owner?
Bought 4 Jags in a row just because of my usual motorway experience of BMW and now Audi drivers.
laugh Seriously?!

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
At least when my old man was racing Jags they had to pass people like Brabham in Galaxies et al in order to win.
I'm guessing that has more to do with the fact that the average BMW racer won't want to get lapped a few times by up to around 7.0 litres of well modified old school Jag without going whingeing to the rule makers after wards.

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
bunyarra said:
Fittster said:
BMW and Audi have huge sales. Can you tell me the image of the typical owner?
Bought 4 Jags in a row just because of my usual motorway experience of BMW and now Audi drivers.

On one run to work (70 miles), did a mental totting up of the most annoying drivers and their car brands encountered ; Audi #1, BMW #2, Volvo #3 smile

YMMV
Did you also do a count of the makes of car overall? I suspect it would be a similar distribution, making your findings statistically insignificant. My personal opinion has always been that the 'Audi driver' or 'BMW driver' comments we hear from people are groundless. I've never noticed a correlation between annoying drivers and the makes of car they're in. This particularly applies to BMW and Audi; they just sell too many cars for there to be a typical owner. I could understand perhaps Morgan or even Lotus, but something as common as a BMW couldn't possible have a typical owber - people vary far too much for that to be true for such a large percentage of the population.

xRIEx

8,180 posts

147 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
xRIEx said:
XJ Flyer said:
As for racing,using old school Jags just for banger racing is a waste.While it would actually be great to see someone actually enter an XE in at least supercharged 6 cylinder form,even better with the 5.0 litre V8,hopefully with a manual box conversion.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX2yyuKsA2k
A one make race series? That's your argument?

I hope I never meet you, or anyone with your condition, in real life.
A 'one make series' that no surprise seems to be resistant to using the later types and especially anything with fwd when the choice is there.
What relevance does a one make race series have on Mr or Mrs Salesrep driving up and down the M1?

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
xRIEx said:
XJ Flyer said:
xRIEx said:
XJ Flyer said:
As for racing,using old school Jags just for banger racing is a waste.While it would actually be great to see someone actually enter an XE in at least supercharged 6 cylinder form,even better with the 5.0 litre V8,hopefully with a manual box conversion.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX2yyuKsA2k
A one make race series? That's your argument?

I hope I never meet you, or anyone with your condition, in real life.
A 'one make series' that no surprise seems to be resistant to using the later types and especially anything with fwd when the choice is there.
What relevance does a one make race series have on Mr or Mrs Salesrep driving up and down the M1?
In this case a lot.Because what makes a car a reasonable choice for racing also makes it good on the road at least if the criterea is selling performance cars.Which is why in this case they've gone ( more ) along the route of making it a performance car first and foremost and then just put a shopping car engine/drive train in it for the rep mobile customers.Which will obviously be a better idea than putting a Jaguar badge on a fwd rep mobile as in the case of the X type.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 15th September 16:52

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
xRIEx said:
XJ Flyer said:
xRIEx said:
XJ Flyer said:
As for racing,using old school Jags just for banger racing is a waste.While it would actually be great to see someone actually enter an XE in at least supercharged 6 cylinder form,even better with the 5.0 litre V8,hopefully with a manual box conversion.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX2yyuKsA2k
A one make race series? That's your argument?

I hope I never meet you, or anyone with your condition, in real life.
A 'one make series' that no surprise seems to be resistant to using the later types and especially anything with fwd when the choice is there.
What relevance does a one make race series have on Mr or Mrs Salesrep driving up and down the M1?
In this case a lot.Because what makes a car a reasonable choice for racing also makes it good on the road at least if the criterea is selling performance cars.Which is why in this case they've gone ( more ) along the route of making it a performance car first and foremost and then just put a shopping car engine/drive train in it for the rep mobile customers.Which will obviously be a better idea than putting a Jaguar badge on a fwd rep mobile as in the case of the X type.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 15th September 16:52
That video had 200 views AFTER posting it up here. I have a suspicion that this is not a race series that is integral to the sales data of JLR. They've probably sold more 'Old Man - Get Ripped' products than Jags wink

swisstoni

16,850 posts

278 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
What exactly did Jaguar stand for back then? It was, to be blunt, rolling out of the Golf course car park, half cut and with the female staff happy to see you gone.
God I miss those days weeping