RE: Jaguar XE - full details

RE: Jaguar XE - full details

Author
Discussion

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
XJ Flyer said:
xRIEx said:
XJ Flyer said:
xRIEx said:
XJ Flyer said:
As for racing,using old school Jags just for banger racing is a waste.While it would actually be great to see someone actually enter an XE in at least supercharged 6 cylinder form,even better with the 5.0 litre V8,hopefully with a manual box conversion.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX2yyuKsA2k
A one make race series? That's your argument?

I hope I never meet you, or anyone with your condition, in real life.
A 'one make series' that no surprise seems to be resistant to using the later types and especially anything with fwd when the choice is there.
What relevance does a one make race series have on Mr or Mrs Salesrep driving up and down the M1?
In this case a lot.Because what makes a car a reasonable choice for racing also makes it good on the road at least if the criterea is selling performance cars.Which is why in this case they've gone ( more ) along the route of making it a performance car first and foremost and then just put a shopping car engine/drive train in it for the rep mobile customers.Which will obviously be a better idea than putting a Jaguar badge on a fwd rep mobile as in the case of the X type.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 15th September 16:52
That video had 200 views AFTER posting it up here. I have a suspicion that this is not a race series that is integral to the sales data of JLR. They've probably sold more 'Old Man - Get Ripped' products than Jags wink
Maybe it is just disbelief that the old school Jags are actually more in demand for anyone who wants a quick car than the later ones and definitely anything with fwd until they've seen it with their own eyes.

DonkeyApple

54,932 posts

168 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
Maybe it is just disbelief that the old school Jags are actually more in demand for anyone who wants a quick car than the later ones and definitely anything with fwd until they've seen it with their own eyes.
Late XJs more in demand than XFs?

DonkeyApple

54,932 posts

168 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
swisstoni said:
DonkeyApple said:
What exactly did Jaguar stand for back then? It was, to be blunt, rolling out of the Golf course car park, half cut and with the female staff happy to see you gone.
God I miss those days weeping
rofl not sure JLR's accountants do though. wink

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
XJ Flyer said:
Maybe it is just disbelief that the old school Jags are actually more in demand for anyone who wants a quick car than the later ones and definitely anything with fwd until they've seen it with their own eyes.
Late XJs more in demand than XFs?
No I was referring to old school ones.

For anyone who is looking for something with similar power output potential with 12 cylinders and a manual box and who prefers the old school three box styling absolutely.Which is probably why for anyone who has got such an old Jag depreciation isn't a factor in the cost of ownership possibly even the opposite.

Although having said that given the choice between the X350 or an XF I'm probably not alone in preferring the styling of the X350.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 15th September 17:41

blearyeyedboy

6,252 posts

178 months

Monday 15th September 2014
quotequote all
JonnyVTEC said:
blearyeyedboy said:
By the way, does anyone know the XE's dimensions?

I'm trying to figure out if it'll fit in my garage...
http://www.driving.co.uk/news/buying-guide-jaguar-xe-vs-3-series-c-class-a4-and/
Ta muchly. smile

FWDRacer

3,564 posts

223 months

Tuesday 16th September 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
DonkeyApple said:
XJ Flyer said:
Maybe it is just disbelief that the old school Jags are actually more in demand for anyone who wants a quick car than the later ones and definitely anything with fwd until they've seen it with their own eyes.
Late XJs more in demand than XFs?
No I was referring to old school ones.

For anyone who is looking for something with similar power output potential with 12 cylinders and a manual box and who prefers the old school three box styling absolutely.Which is probably why for anyone who has got such an old Jag depreciation isn't a factor in the cost of ownership possibly even the opposite.

Although having said that given the choice between the X350 or an XF I'm probably not alone in preferring the styling of the X350.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 15th September 17:41
You are in a fast disappearing minority, which without appearing to be rude, are dying off (body and or attitude of a sept/octagenarian +). If Jaguar didn't move with the age demographic via forawrd thinking (and stylin), I'm afraid it would be a three score and 10 and pine box for your beloved brand. The issue with X-type wasn't that it was smaller cheaper model within the brand, it was because it was styled like a grandfather clock on wheels, made to ape the X308. Huge misjudgement of the market on Jaguar's behalf and I'm afraid say the result of listening to too many people like yourself XJ Flyer.

In comparison, the XE looks taught and modern. The right wheels are driven and it'll have powertrains to compete within the sector from the word go (Which X-type had to play catch up via the FWD Diesel route).

JonnyVTEC

3,001 posts

174 months

Tuesday 16th September 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
Although having said that given the choice between the X350 or an XF I'm probably not alone in preferring the styling of the X350.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 15th September 17:41
Did you buy a new X350 then?

If not you are making the case for why the design had to change.



DonkeyApple

54,932 posts

168 months

Tuesday 16th September 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
Although having said that given the choice between the X350 or an XF I'm probably not alone in preferring the styling of the X350.
]
I'm one of them but we are not a large enough group to be remotely viable. I loved the fact that it stood totally alone in its looks and paid homage to the original XJ, which was one of my first cars (a 1974 Daimler Sovereign, one of a pair my father bought for my grandparents and had just 22k on the clock when my grandfather gave it to me).

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Tuesday 16th September 2014
quotequote all
JonnyVTEC said:
XJ Flyer said:
Although having said that given the choice between the X350 or an XF I'm probably not alone in preferring the styling of the X350.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 15th September 17:41
Did you buy a new X350 then?

If not you are making the case for why the design had to change.
No because firstly like many other Jaguar owners the new Jaguar market has always been out of my price league at least in terms of the amount of car available for the money.You will also have seen that a manual box option or at least the possibility of easy inexpensive conversion is also part of my buying criterea.

As for an X350 in the used market as I've said I'd definitely prefer the styling of that over the XF etc.But,as in most modern Jaguars,the issue of putting a manual box in it makes it an unviable choice v the X300 together with the fact that I think 12 cylinders suits the character of a big Jaguar better than 8.

Having said that hopefully Jaguar will at least address the issue of a manual option in the XE hopefully together with the choice of the 5.0 Litre V8.In which case this has the potential to be the real replacement for the Mk2 which has been needed since the 1960's.

andyps

7,817 posts

281 months

Tuesday 16th September 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
No because firstly like many other Jaguar owners the new Jaguar market has always been out of my price league at least in terms of the amount of car available for the money.You will also have seen that a manual box option or at least the possibility of easy inexpensive conversion is also part of my buying criterea.

As for an X350 in the used market as I've said I'd definitely prefer the styling of that over the XF etc.But,as in most modern Jaguars,the issue of putting a manual box in it makes it an unviable choice v the X300 together with the fact that I think 12 cylinders suits the character of a big Jaguar better than 8.

Having said that hopefully Jaguar will at least address the issue of a manual option in the XE hopefully together with the choice of the 5.0 Litre V8.In which case this has the potential to be the real replacement for the Mk2 which has been needed since the 1960's.
The XE will be available with a manual box, whether it will even get the V8 waits to be seen but Ian Callum did say that it was easier to get the V8 to fit under the bonnet than the 4 cylinder engine so there is a chance. Whether that will come with a manual is probably debatable but time will tell. I take it you have already been to your local dealer to pledge that you will but a V8 Manual XE and left a deposit so they know how much you want one and your commitment level wink

xRIEx

8,180 posts

147 months

Tuesday 16th September 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
No because firstly like many other Jaguar owners the new Jaguar market has always been out of my price league at least in terms of the amount of car available for the money.You will also have seen that a manual box option or at least the possibility of easy inexpensive conversion is also part of my buying criterea.
So what you're saying is, you're not a customer within the target demographic of the manufacturer Jaguar Land Rover?

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Tuesday 16th September 2014
quotequote all
andyps said:
The XE will be available with a manual box, whether it will even get the V8 waits to be seen but Ian Callum did say that it was easier to get the V8 to fit under the bonnet than the 4 cylinder engine so there is a chance. Whether that will come with a manual is probably debatable but time will tell. I take it you have already been to your local dealer to pledge that you will but a V8 Manual XE and left a deposit so they know how much you want one and your commitment level wink
I would be surprised if the V8 comes with a manual 'box. Unless I am mistaken, that engine has never been linked to a manual box, and I doubt JLR will develop a new manual 'box to cope with the torque.

If the new manual box for the XE had been built to stand up to the V8, I expect we would have been told.

DonkeyApple

54,932 posts

168 months

Tuesday 16th September 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
JonnyVTEC said:
XJ Flyer said:
Although having said that given the choice between the X350 or an XF I'm probably not alone in preferring the styling of the X350.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 15th September 17:41
Did you buy a new X350 then?

If not you are making the case for why the design had to change.
No because firstly like many other Jaguar owners the new Jaguar market has always been out of my price league at least in terms of the amount of car available for the money.You will also have seen that a manual box option or at least the possibility of easy inexpensive conversion is also part of my buying criterea.

As for an X350 in the used market as I've said I'd definitely prefer the styling of that over the XF etc.But,as in most modern Jaguars,the issue of putting a manual box in it makes it an unviable choice v the X300 together with the fact that I think 12 cylinders suits the character of a big Jaguar better than 8.

Having said that hopefully Jaguar will at least address the issue of a manual option in the XE hopefully together with the choice of the 5.0 Litre V8.In which case this has the potential to be the real replacement for the Mk2 which has been needed since the 1960's.
If a manual option was 'really' needed as you seem to keep claiming then it would exist. The fact that it doesn't exist and if it ever were it would be as an option in the version of the XF that sells in incredibly low numbers does tell you everything you need to know.

It is clear that the only reason most people ever bought manual cars was because they were cheaper and worked better. Fast forward to today and it is clear to see that as soon as the auto box became better than the manual and was no more expensive the buying public have dumped the manual as quickly as possible.

The manual gearbox is dead. It will only ever see the light of day again as marketing gimmicks in specific models as far as the upper end of the market is concerned. As voted for by the British public. And more specifically, as voted for by Jaguar buyers nearly 40 years ago.

It's irrelevant whether this is a good or bad thing, it has happened and it isn't going to reverse any time soon. No one of commercial, credible value has the remotest desire for a manual gearbox in these types of car.

If the XE can be sold for less with a manual option then you would think it would follow other manufacturers in this sector and offer it. I must say that I have assumed it would be an option on the baby Jag. I have a feeling they won't be fitting the V8 into this car but the FI V6 from the F Type.

DonkeyApple

54,932 posts

168 months

Tuesday 16th September 2014
quotequote all
ORD said:
I would be surprised if the V8 comes with a manual 'box. Unless I am mistaken, that engine has never been linked to a manual box, and I doubt JLR will develop a new manual 'box to cope with the torque.

If the new manual box for the XE had been built to stand up to the V8, I expect we would have been told.
The manual ZF6 does fit to the AJ series V8 and will handle the power. It's shorter and narrower than the ZF8 auto (which what I am assuming will be the auto option for the XE?). There are also US boxes that will take it and have been fitted, it's just a simple bell housing cast in that regard and then all the kafuffle of changing the cam timing etc to fit the static ratios of a different box and all the complex reprogramming of the ECU/TCU interface that modern cars are so reliant on. It's definitely been done and I think early V8 Vantages, or whatever the current baby Aston is, had a manual option?



So, it can be done and has in the past. It's just whether the marketing department determines that building a car that will sell in immensely low numbers and lose money is viable for brand marketing purposes. We can only hope. smile

Edited by DonkeyApple on Tuesday 16th September 12:36

JonnyVTEC

3,001 posts

174 months

Tuesday 16th September 2014
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
If the XE can be sold for less with a manual option then you would think it would follow other manufacturers in this sector and offer it. I must say that I have assumed it would be an option on the baby Jag. I have a feeling they won't be fitting the V8 into this car but the FI V6 from the F Type.
They are offering manual.

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Tuesday 16th September 2014
quotequote all
andyps said:
XJ Flyer said:
No because firstly like many other Jaguar owners the new Jaguar market has always been out of my price league at least in terms of the amount of car available for the money.You will also have seen that a manual box option or at least the possibility of easy inexpensive conversion is also part of my buying criterea.

As for an X350 in the used market as I've said I'd definitely prefer the styling of that over the XF etc.But,as in most modern Jaguars,the issue of putting a manual box in it makes it an unviable choice v the X300 together with the fact that I think 12 cylinders suits the character of a big Jaguar better than 8.

Having said that hopefully Jaguar will at least address the issue of a manual option in the XE hopefully together with the choice of the 5.0 Litre V8.In which case this has the potential to be the real replacement for the Mk2 which has been needed since the 1960's.
The XE will be available with a manual box, whether it will even get the V8 waits to be seen but Ian Callum did say that it was easier to get the V8 to fit under the bonnet than the 4 cylinder engine so there is a chance. Whether that will come with a manual is probably debatable but time will tell. I take it you have already been to your local dealer to pledge that you will but a V8 Manual XE and left a deposit so they know how much you want one and your commitment level wink
I'd doubt it in my case.This one is all about the future generations of Jaguar enthusiasts.In which case at least the new car sales rep will have the luxury of being able to tell any prospective new buyer trust me this manual supercharged 6 or 8 cylinder saloon is the real successor to the Mk2 and that will obviously be reflected in its depreciation rate bearing in mind the demand levels for the Mk2.

But I'd guess that it will need a supercharged V8 option in the most powerful state of tune possible to create the required halo effect v the German competition.Although the supercharged 6 will probably be a reasonable competitor in that regard especially with that all important manual option.

DonkeyApple

54,932 posts

168 months

Tuesday 16th September 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
andyps said:
XJ Flyer said:
No because firstly like many other Jaguar owners the new Jaguar market has always been out of my price league at least in terms of the amount of car available for the money.You will also have seen that a manual box option or at least the possibility of easy inexpensive conversion is also part of my buying criterea.

As for an X350 in the used market as I've said I'd definitely prefer the styling of that over the XF etc.But,as in most modern Jaguars,the issue of putting a manual box in it makes it an unviable choice v the X300 together with the fact that I think 12 cylinders suits the character of a big Jaguar better than 8.

Having said that hopefully Jaguar will at least address the issue of a manual option in the XE hopefully together with the choice of the 5.0 Litre V8.In which case this has the potential to be the real replacement for the Mk2 which has been needed since the 1960's.
The XE will be available with a manual box, whether it will even get the V8 waits to be seen but Ian Callum did say that it was easier to get the V8 to fit under the bonnet than the 4 cylinder engine so there is a chance. Whether that will come with a manual is probably debatable but time will tell. I take it you have already been to your local dealer to pledge that you will but a V8 Manual XE and left a deposit so they know how much you want one and your commitment level wink
I'd doubt it in my case.This one is all about the future generations of Jaguar enthusiasts.In which case at least the new car sales rep will have the luxury of being able to tell any prospective new buyer trust me this manual supercharged 6 or 8 cylinder saloon is the real successor to the Mk2 and that will obviously be reflected in its depreciation rate bearing in mind the demand levels for the Mk2.

But I'd guess that it will need a supercharged V8 option in the most powerful state of tune possible to create the required halo effect v the German competition.Although the supercharged 6 will probably be a reasonable competitor in that regard especially with that all important manual option.
I think it's about selling as many 3 year lease contracts as possible and chucking in use of a car to incentivise them. It's then about getting as many of those buyers of debt at the end of their three years to at worst buy another bundle of debt and get the same car again or preferably buy a larger debt package and upgrade to a more desirable free car.

In terms of actual buyers of XEs than it's important to have them there to give good residuals to the primary aim of selling debt but beyond that, not much more. These aren't classic cars in the making just mass produced utility products to be used and then disposed of.

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Tuesday 16th September 2014
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
I think it's about selling as many 3 year lease contracts as possible and chucking in use of a car to incentivise them. It's then about getting as many of those buyers of debt at the end of their three years to at worst buy another bundle of debt and get the same car again or preferably buy a larger debt package and upgrade to a more desirable free car.

In terms of actual buyers of XEs than it's important to have them there to give good residuals to the primary aim of selling debt but beyond that, not much more. These aren't classic cars in the making just mass produced utility products to be used and then disposed of.
It's the cycle effect that is so concerning about all these 3 year deals. Everyone knows that the guy cant afford the end payment, so he is tied in for the rest of his natural life buying new car after new car.

It is damn clever stuff, really, and the public laps it up and gleefully spends many thousands per year to drive average cars.

DonkeyApple

54,932 posts

168 months

Tuesday 16th September 2014
quotequote all
ORD said:
DonkeyApple said:
I think it's about selling as many 3 year lease contracts as possible and chucking in use of a car to incentivise them. It's then about getting as many of those buyers of debt at the end of their three years to at worst buy another bundle of debt and get the same car again or preferably buy a larger debt package and upgrade to a more desirable free car.

In terms of actual buyers of XEs than it's important to have them there to give good residuals to the primary aim of selling debt but beyond that, not much more. These aren't classic cars in the making just mass produced utility products to be used and then disposed of.
It's the cycle effect that is so concerning about all these 3 year deals. Everyone knows that the guy cant afford the end payment, so he is tied in for the rest of his natural life buying new car after new car.

It is damn clever stuff, really, and the public laps it up and gleefully spends many thousands per year to drive average cars.
Yup. They'll keep on loving it until they wake up one day in their own cold urine and being beaten by an NHS carer because they spent all their future income on present over living.

Having said that, we'll probably all be cleaning the boots of our new Chinese overlords by then, so fk it, might as well live it up like a gay discotheque regular. biggrin

andyps

7,817 posts

281 months

Tuesday 16th September 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
I'd doubt it in my case.This one is all about the future generations of Jaguar enthusiasts.In which case at least the new car sales rep will have the luxury of being able to tell any prospective new buyer trust me this manual supercharged 6 or 8 cylinder saloon is the real successor to the Mk2 and that will obviously be reflected in its depreciation rate bearing in mind the demand levels for the Mk2.

But I'd guess that it will need a supercharged V8 option in the most powerful state of tune possible to create the required halo effect v the German competition.Although the supercharged 6 will probably be a reasonable competitor in that regard especially with that all important manual option.
If you aren't going to buy it who will? I very much doubt that the demand levels for the Mk2 will affect residuals of the XE SVE or whatever it ends up being called, just as the demand levels for the E-Type is having no efferct on residuals for the XKR-S.

As the XE is a competitor to the C-Class, 3-Series and A4 there won't be a need for the V8 in its most powerful state of tune. The V6 with a little more than currently offered in the F-Type would make it very competitive. As Donkey Apple has pointed out, however, it is probably unlikely to have a manual box as the demand is very low for this combination - look at the offering from the competitors who already know what people are buying for the M3/4 C63 and RS versions.

However, there has been suggestion of a manual box in the F-Type so who knows, but lets not get back to that discussion again!